5th String on 78 Rick 4001

[lowlandtrees]

I have just put a low B (130) on my 4 string Rick 4001 (78). I have not yet cut the nut but there is very low volume from the the new string. All the other strings are fine. Before I cut the nut to lower the string I was wondering if anyone else has done this. Being an old thing (me AND the bass)I was concerned that the pups may not be able to handle the lower freqencies. Am I right in thinking that Rics in general are regarded as lacking low frequencies? Maybe I should have tried a lighter string. I have a Roland Cube 100. Tried adjusting the knobs but just got a dirty sound.

[Mikey R]

What kind of sound are you after?

[BigRedX]

Are you using the lower 4 strings from a 5-string set, or have you modified the bass to take 5 strings?

[brensabre79]

I always thought Rics had an abundance of low frequencies, especially from the neck pickup. Although if its a 4001, has it got the toaster pickup in the neck position or the hi-gain? The toaster is actually a guitar pickup.
Also, are you sure it's not your amp, maybe it has a high shelf because the speakers are small?

[Stacker]

If it's a '78 4001 it'll be a hi-gain without the adjustable pole-pieces. You're always going to get a 'scooped' sound out of a RIC (to my ears) with both pups flat out but you can try jumping the cap on the rear pup for some more bottom end. As to lack of output, I'm no pickup expert but it could be an induction issue.

[bertbass]

I used to own a 4001 many years ago and although it was a really bad example I persevered. I put up with the thick neck and the fact that I could never get the intonation right on the E string because of the 'sound'. I tried fitting heavier strings and while setting the relief one of the truss rods broke. Got a new truss rod and installed it only for the finger board to start lifting off as I adjusted the new truss rod. If I put super light strings on, it was OK, if not, it was unplayable. It was stolen in that condition and I hope the thief was happy with his new unplayable, left handed, fireglow, 4001.

From my experience, I'd be wary of putting on heavier gauge strings. I believe also, that the 4003 is a 4001 with a more manly neck for this very reason.

[FelixGubbins]

I'm intrigued. Can we have a picture?

[Stacker]

Good point, Bertbass. A 130 on a 4001 will see a necessary neck adjustment. Please read up on that procedure before you attempt any neck adjustments. Can I ask: are you dropzoning the gauges all over this bass?

Edited February 18, 2013 by Stacker

[BigRedX]

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1361184129' post='1982251']
From my experience, I'd be wary of putting on heavier gauge strings. I believe also, that the 4003 is a 4001 with a more manly neck for this very reason.
[/quote]

It's a common misconception that thicker strings = higher tension (unless you are tuning them to the same pitch) but generally stringing a 4-string bass with the lowest 4 strings from a 5-string set where the E, A and D strings are the same will result in less overall tension on the neck, as the low B is nearly always lower tension than the high G.

[jonsmith]

If it was previously fine with an E string there, this may not help, but might be worth trying the bridge pickup capacitor bypass trick. I did this on all my older Ricks & it resulted in a significant amount of extra low end.

[url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Rick_maint.htm#cmod"]http://www.joeysbass..._maint.htm#cmod[/url]

(Link to the rather useful Joey's Bass Notes)

You can quickly test this by just looping a wire round the same connections as the capacitor and see if it gives you what you're missing, before getting the soldering iron out.

EDIT: Just seen that the wiring diagrams have been removed from that site. Give me a shout if you can't figure out which cap it is and I'll post a photo of what I did.

Good guide for adjusting Rick truss rods on the site too, including tips to avoid the fingerboard lift that bertbass experienced. Older Rick necks need a lot of care when adjusting.

Edited February 18, 2013 by jonsmith

[iiipopes]

You can find all your answers at either Joey's bass notes or at Rickresource.com

Regarding the split fingerboard mentioned above: There is a definite proper procedure for the "old style" rods. I had a '76 4001 and it was perfect until I wore the frets out, and at the time lived in an area that there were no competent luthiers to replace them, and so I sold it for a '81 4002 which also has the "old style" rods. Never a problem with the rods when the proper procedure was used.

If properly set up, a 4001 is the best. But it is like a thoroughbred horse: if you don't treat it properly, it will disintegrate, like it did for the poster above.

Now, finally, most commercial speaker cabinets are made to roll off at @ 50 Hz so that driver excursion is truncated resulting in less warranty claims. Low B fundamental is @ 31 Hz. Has the OP checked to see if other 5-string basses sound even on the lower notes of the B string through the rig?

[JTUK]

I would be most worried about the neck, more than anything...

And, I generally don't like lashes like this... get a dedicated bass..not chop around a 'decent' '78..if only because of the percieved value of said vintage...??

[bertbass]

I had my Rick when the WWW didn't exist and information was not available, but even if set up to perfection it would still have been a terrible example of a design classic. It had the sound though.

[lowlandtrees]

Looking at all this great feedback I think that I will go back to the EADG strings, punt something and get a dedicated 5 string. The Ric has toaster pups. Did not realise that these are guitar pups and prob don't pick up the low notes. As said , the neck is also kinda thin looking. The B rattles like .... as well. I play mainly the lower 3 strings and don't use the G much so I thought that I could get rid of the G and add a B. I would not attempt any re wiring.... too clumsy. I love the sound of the instrument as it is but we were doing some stuff that needed a low notes so I thought........cheap solution...but there never is. Can also just drop tune. Also have an MM SUB but don't suppose that would work either. Do fancy a Precision 5 string. How many instruments is too many? Don't need to answer that

[bertbass]

A pickup is a pickup. A magnet with a coil of wire around it. More coil, more resistance, and higher output. If you've got a blade type pickup, the you can use it for guitar or bass as long as it's long enough to pick up all the strings. If it's got pole pieces then you need the pole pieces to be under the strings, other than that there's no difference.

[iiipopes]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1361291389' post='1984036']
Looking at all this great feedback I think that I will go back to the EADG strings, punt something and get a dedicated 5 string. The Ric has toaster pups. Did not realise that these are guitar pups and prob don't pick up the low notes. As said , the neck is also kinda thin looking. The B rattles like .... as well. I play mainly the lower 3 strings and don't use the G much so I thought that I could get rid of the G and add a B. I would not attempt any re wiring.... too clumsy. I love the sound of the instrument as it is but we were doing some stuff that needed a low notes so I thought........cheap solution...but there never is. Can also just drop tune. Also have an MM SUB but don't suppose that would work either. Do fancy a Precision 5 string. How many instruments is too many? Don't need to answer that[/quote]
Yes, it is good to keep the instrument in stock playing condition. As far as a 5-string, I did not have much cash, and I purchased an Ibanez SRA-305 on a closeout for @US$300 that I use to gig with: straight forward controls, V-V-T, then into the Ibanez version of the EMG EXB which I can bypass if the battery on it goes dead.

Edited February 20, 2013 by iiipopes