Passive PA speaker advice please

[essexbasscat]

HI all

contemplating which FOH speakers to buy for my first PA. Trying to avoid lifting heavy speakers up poles, so going for lighter passive speakers instead of heavier active FOH design (I've lifted EV active sx250's up poles and they are about as heavy as I'd really go. Lighter would be better, much better).

Had a look around and like the look of the EV SX300 speakers so far. That said, I havn't had much experience of actually playing around with different PA's in a live situation.

The Sx300's go for somewhere around the £400 mark secondhand. Can anyone suggest anything better for something like the same price ? I'd be willing to go a bit more if it would make a REAL difference

Thanks all

EBC

[subrob]

RCF boxes are usually very good, do avoid Mackie as theyre nothing of what they once were. Theres surprising bang for buck in thd cheap JBL and Wharfedale stuff, too, imo

[JTUK]

Best tops we had were Martin ICT500's by a country mile but you wont like the weight. They slaughter the Q12's we now use.
Maybe the ICT300's would be better and e-bay might get you them for £400..but make sure you get the controller.
Our keys uses SX300's and I would say they are ok but not much for a P.A tbh

RCF do decent actives and aren't that heavy to be fair, IMO...but not for that money.

JBL aren't what they used to be either and suffer from breakdown's so it may depend on which ones you get.
If you MUST go Mackie, get the earlier models.

Not an area you want to skimp on tbh, I'd get more money together and go for 10 or 12 active RCF's as a minimum standard

[essexbasscat]

Thanks guys

I looked up the ICT500's - 78lb weight, a bit too much for me, but the review's were great. The ICT300 is more around the 30lb bracket which is probably about as good as it's going to get. They seem powerful enough for my beginner's rig, so may go with them.

In fact, thinking about a decent rig at a reasonable price all round, as it's not too late to change things around. I'll open up another thread for that one.

Thanks again.

[Phil Starr]

You need to think about what use you are going to put them through, just vocals or will the band be fully mixed? FWIW I use Yamaha S112V's and i'm pretty happy with them The bass is OK (but I wouldn't want to put the bass through the PA without the bass bins) The horn is a real gem though and vocals really cut through. I've not heard any better vocal sound from bands using gear in this sort of price bracket.

Worth a read [url="http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/dec09/articles/pabuyersguide.htm"]http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/dec09/articles/pabuyersguide.htm[/url]

You probably know all this but [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/a_guide_to_live_sound_speakers_and_amps.html"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/a_guide_to_live_sound_speakers_and_amps.html[/url]

[JTUK]

Agree that ICT500's are heavy.
They put out 700w pr cab and have 210 and 210 woofers so that explains the weight.
I would NEVER have traded them myself...and if they are still about, I'll buy them myself. You can put vox and keys and gtr through them with no bother
and you'll never lose the vocal. Martin is quality.

The ICT300 are the 210 version and I wouldn't expect them to do as much as the larger cabs... not surprisingly, but the quality will still be there.
I am guessing that they would stack up against QSC Q12 tops very well..and the QSC stuff seems to be the fav stuff of the moment...but you HAVE to run them with subs, IMO, which is not the territory it sounds like you went t get into. No subs and they are just another decent top, IMO...for £2k in wooded cabs..not the composite ones..!!
You can see the corners being shaved off here, IMO...

RCF are pretty pokey small gig type units...and will cope with a full band in a pub quite well.

JBL can sound quite good but I think their bombproof reputation of yesteryear is shattered, ...we sent back two horn diaphragms in a short space of time...and this doesn't seem to be unheard of, IME.

EV has quite a few cabs out but the SX300 is entry level now. Will do a better job than most PV units you'll hear ..along with all the other non-names..but at least with PV, if you can live with the sound, they are VERY robust and reknown for it. For me, the quality of sound isn't there, but band for buck..???

Often, most of the top units need a controller, but for £400, if you can find decent ICT300 plus controller, or other Martin stuff, these are lights years ahead of the stuff I've mentioned here..IMO/IME.

F12's are good as well, but not for the money you are looking at.
HK...?? there is HK and HK, IMO... the lighter stuff is not so good, IMO..??
Seeing a pattern here..??

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1352049448' post='1858161'] Agree that ICT500's are heavy. They put out 700w pr cab and have 210 and 210 woofers so that explains the weight. I would NEVER have traded them myself...and if they are still about, I'll buy them myself. You can put vox and keys and gtr through them with no bother and you'll never lose the vocal. Martin is quality. The ICT300 are the 210 version and I wouldn't expect them to do as much as the larger cabs... not surprisingly, but the quality will still be there. I am guessing that they would stack up against QSC Q12 tops very well..and the QSC stuff seems to be the fav stuff of the moment...but you HAVE to run them with subs, IMO, which is not the territory it sounds like you went t get into. No subs and they are just another decent top, IMO...for £2k in wooded cabs..not the composite ones..!! You can see the corners being shaved off here, IMO... RCF are pretty pokey small gig type units...and will cope with a full band in a pub quite well. JBL can sound quite good but I think their bombproof reputation of yesteryear is shattered, ...we sent back two horn diaphragms in a short space of time...and this doesn't seem to be unheard of, IME. EV has quite a few cabs out but the SX300 is entry level now. Will do a better job than most PV units you'll hear ..along with all the other non-names..but at least with PV, if you can live with the sound, they are VERY robust and reknown for it. For me, the quality of sound isn't there, but band for buck..??? Often, most of the top units need a controller, but for £400, if you can find decent ICT300 plus controller, or other Martin stuff, these are lights years ahead of the stuff I've mentioned here..IMO/IME. F12's are good as well, but not for the money you are looking at. HK...?? there is HK and HK, IMO... the lighter stuff is not so good, IMO..?? Seeing a pattern here..?? [/quote]


I get the sense we're fundamentally on the same page here regarding quality. I would like to eventually have a good all - round rig that would cope with everything through it, but it'll take a little while to get there.

For the moment I'd like to start out with a rig that's a cut above entry level and can be flexible enough to produce a good sound in a variety of situations, including a large hall now and again. Financial limitations are going to keep me away from the high end stuff just yet.
There's also the weight, as there may be times when it'll be just me putting the thing together. It will also be just me taking it to and from the car at home ! it's sometimes not very easy to be quiet at 2AM carrying heavy gear up the stairs, especially when you're tuckered

[JTUK]

Ok...we did quite a lot or research and experimentation and my views on Martin Audio are obvious.

I would put EV and RCF as very directional pokey P.A cabs. You don't want to be right in line of
them and close as the horns are spikey...but in a good way. I think they would be VG monitors

I could see a loud band in a largish pub outrunning them...but then that would be the case with a lot of the others
you'll look at at that price point.

I think the RCF 12" actives can be had for decent money but not your SH price.

The SX300's are very compact and light enough, and I call them a mini P.A... which might be enough to get you
doing the job until you really narrow down or focus your requirements elsewhere.

Not saying RCF and EV are shabby at all... just that there is only so far you can go with single speaker boxes...
QSC being a classic case in point, IMO.

If it were me building a P.A... but NOT looking to hump it ALL, I'd consider QSC, HK and Martin.
Martin would be more traditional in terms of size and composite and top of my list, QSC new and lightweight but the jury is out on how good they actuallly will turn out to be
and HK do such a range of cabs it is hard to nail them down. Some say the cheaper end of their range suffers the same failures as the cheaper name cabs.
The better cabs being the heavier wooden ones. A couple of friends bands punish theirs and will tell you the same thing, IMO.

What price hearsay..???

[bertbass]

Any good with woodworking tools? Build a pair of BFM Jacks or Otops 12s and T39s. Martin quality at Behringer prices.

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/