thunderbird13 Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1351796702' post='1855596'] Also, if you jump about, you can't rely on muscle memory. Seems to me it's different for relatively static players. Jazz and orchestral bassists can rely on a standard posture. I would say for bassist who sing there's an argument for markers as well. [/quote] So would this be an argument for not practicing arco , in fact can you play db with a bow standing without placing your body in a strange shape ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Yes of course you can. There are plenty of examples on Youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLoydElgar Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Just have a lesson with Duncan McTier, He'll clean up anything to do with the double bass and musicality! If you can catch him that is!!! Might cost you somewhere in £££ a lesson... But worth every penny... An Idea of how he teaches! = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2phOd3xp1kk Good luck with all the practice!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1351855248' post='1856155'] So would this be an argument for not practicing arco , in fact can you play db with a bow standing without placing your body in a strange shape ? [/quote] Funny you should say that; I find the arco arm angles completely different and haven't found a good compromise bass height yet. I imagine that's just me though, as I play pizz with the bass set low to spare a dodgy shoulder and wrist. btw, I'm not saying use mnarkers all the time; just that for gigs they allow for a more fun approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLoydElgar Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Play seated! IKEA STOOL works very well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1351869390' post='1856418'] Play seated! IKEA STOOL works very well... [/quote] Funny you should say that I saw the very stool I thnk your talking about in Ikea last Friday - God my life is exciting, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1351869390' post='1856418'] Play seated! IKEA STOOL works very well... [/quote] That doesn't really work if you're in a rockabilly band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1351869857' post='1856428'] That doesn't really work if you're in a rockabilly band. [/quote] True that. How to get fired in one easy lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1351869857' post='1856428'] That doesn't really work if you're in a rockabilly band. [/quote] ..or cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I can't do the sitting down thing at all with a double bass. It feels completely unnatural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbn4001 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='philparker' timestamp='1351787799' post='1855431'] I maybe the least qualified to comment on this as I have only been playing DB for one month, but as a beginner I may be able to share different experiences?! I didn't really intend to play with a bow, but listening to sage advice from BC forumites and others I thought it might be worth while. I managed to locate a tutor a week or so before I collected my DB and arrange an initial lesson (on the day of collection) and subsequent lessons. It just so happens my tutor is from an orchestral background and even though I highlighted my future plans (jazz, folk, MOTR & majority pizz) all my lessons and tutoring will be a majority of arco until I am at a decent level. I have played fretless for many years and appreciate 'intonation by ear' and watching all the DB vids I have, I've been impressed with the seamless intonation and muscle memory of the players. I've been studying scales and arpeggios from an ABRSM book as well as Yorke Studies & Kieth Hartley solos - all in a progressive structure and 90% arco. I've been pleased with my progress and consistency of intonation, especially when moving up to position 3 (I haven't started the thumb position yet!) and looking back over the last month I think my progression has been very much helped by the structure ive adopted and the 20+ mins of scales very day - something I would be reluctant to do on guitar or bass. Luckily I've got the time to practise and I intend/determined to be a good player and don't mind putting in the hard, tedious work in now if its going to get me quicker to the point of competence. [/quote] +1 I've been taking lessons from a pro orchestral player for nearly two years.. initially pizz but now 95% of my lessons are with the bow . My intonation has improved massively. Would echo the thoughts of others on this thread .. Simandl.. scales, practise, muscle memory have got me to a level that I couldn't have imagined when I first picked up DB two yrs back after 20 yrs of electric fretted bass playing. Also, my teacher recommended I buy a full length mirror to use as reference to check posture.. arm not sagging down etc. My teacher is a great motivator and I always look forward to my lessons. I think this helps me do my "homework" - doing all that practise - which has resulted in me having reasonable intonation. Short answer: Simandl + Good teacher + consistent practise = improved intonation across the neck. For me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbn4001 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1351871936' post='1856473'] I can't do the sitting down thing at all with a double bass. It feels completely unnatural. [/quote] I had great trouble balancing the bass stood up when first learning and so now play seated most of the time. The funny thing is that since playing seated for some time.. I find that I can now play standing up just fine (except for arco). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikodriko Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 markers on side of neck are a short term way of maintaining intonation. it works for a while, but you become dependant on them and when you pleay someone elses bass you will be lost. I tried using small stickers on the neck for ages, and thought i was ace, but when they moved i had major problems. You really have yo use your ears. Using a bow will bring out any intonation issues as has been mentioned. use your reference points - open strings, and thimb stop on neck as mentioned. you might struggle for a while but eventually it will come. you will just sh1t yourself everytime you have to play something in Ab or Db ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='rikodriko' timestamp='1352385212' post='1862422'] markers on side of neck are a short term way of maintaining intonation. it works for a while, but you become dependant on them and when you pleay someone elses bass you will be lost. I tried using small stickers on the neck for ages, and thought i was ace, but when they moved i had major problems. You really have yo use your ears. Using a bow will bring out any intonation issues as has been mentioned. use your reference points - open strings, and thimb stop on neck as mentioned. you might struggle for a while but eventually it will come. you will just sh1t yourself everytime you have to play something in Ab or Db ! [/quote] I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that, though. If you practice while reading charts or whatever, you aren't looking at markers, so that should be ok. Gigging is where they really free you up, especially when you can't hear. They've saved me in that situation several times. For anyone using Rabbath, I think the situation is different anyway. I use markers on the Rabbath thumb positions, and while practicing they're a useful (occasional) check. As I understand it (and nobody has really explained the method well) if you don't get the thumb right with Rabbath, everything fails. And you can't rely on your ears for that, because you can intonate perfectly and still have a faulty thumb position. Developing correct muscle memory in that case requires a reference, imo. Because the number of shifts in Rabbath is so few, though, you can systematically practice shifting, which I'm finding very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLoydElgar Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 You don't need to use markers... Lots of practice, playing what you know down below; up high... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Yeah I resisted the temptation to put any markers on the board. I know from gigging fretless bass, even if you've got an unlined board you can get used to looking at the side dots for reference and then you never quite feel fully confident when you're on a stage in blackout... :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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