surfguy13 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hi folks My old '72 Celestion G15C (15", 16ohm) is no more and need a replacement. It came out of an old WEM Dominator Mk1 Bass combo (valve) from 1972. The combo is rated at 15-30 watts, although we're talking valve watts, so ideally I'd like a 50-200 watt bass driver but would consider up to 450 watt at a push. Anyone aware where I might find a driver with these specs? Or, better still, anyone got one they want to get rid of?!!! I've spent ages looking online and have come up with an Eminance Kappa rated at 450 watts but that's abut it. Really appreciate any advice/help.........cheers! Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Is it a valve amp? You should be OK driving it into 8 ohms if so - it's under-loading an output transformer that's a no-no. I have an Eminence Kappa you can try if you like, I'm often in Ely. PM me if I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='bremen' timestamp='1348750681' post='1817711'] Is it a valve amp? You should be OK driving it into 8 ohms if so - it's under-loading an output transformer that's a no-no. I have an Eminence Kappa you can try if you like, I'm often in Ely. PM me if I can help. [/quote] Lovely offer......thank you! PM'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Not much point worry about watts on the speaker, sensitivity and the high output are the important bits. Valve watts are no different, jsut have a more limited passband, which helps the speaker even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1348751725' post='1817727'] Not much point worry about watts on the speaker, sensitivity and the high output are the important bits. Valve watts are no different, jsut have a more limited passband, which helps the speaker even more. [/quote] That's [b]REALLY[/b] helpful as I was a little concerned about installing a speaker that had so much more handling capacity than the original (50 watts). Bit of a numpty where drivers are concerned and only ever think about them when they stop working!!!! The Kappa isn't expensive, probably about £70 with postage, so if the extra handling capacity isn't an issue then may be worth a punt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Check the sensitivity. Need to know which Kappa it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1348752347' post='1817739'] Check the sensitivity. Need to know which Kappa it is. [/quote] Right, the sensitivity is 100.5 (means nothing at all to me!) and this is a link to the speaker: [url="http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=EMIEK15B"]http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=EMIEK15B[/url] I spoke to John at Bluearan and he reckons this is one of the only options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just realised the driver I offered is actually a Kappa pro LF-2 (low sensitivity, high power, extended LF), probably not at all suitable for a low power amp. But you're still welcome to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='bremen' timestamp='1348753145' post='1817746'] Just realised the driver I offered is actually a Kappa pro LF-2 (low sensitivity, high power, extended LF), probably not at all suitable for a low power amp. But you're still welcome to try it. [/quote] Thanks again Chris.....PM'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 100.5 is enough. Its the LFs that are unsuitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1348757731' post='1817810'] 100.5 is enough. Its the LFs that are unsuitable. [/quote] Yup. They're really spec'd for subs or 2 or 3 way systems - if you want a dub tone they should be golden, but you'd need stacks of watts AFAIK, those low octaves don't fill a room by themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 You don't say what is wrong with the original Celestion. Chances are it can be re-coned or the coil rewound by [url="http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/"]Wembley Loudspeakers[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1348781210' post='1818268'] You don't say what is wrong with the original Celestion. Chances are it can be re-coned or the coil rewound by [url="http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/"]Wembley Loudspeakers[/url]. [/quote] I'm not sure if I dare admit to this but when removing the chassis today I underestimated how short the lead to the speaker terminals was and the bar on which the terminals are mounted (not sure what this is called?) broke in half and the two very fine wires to the coil kinda pulled out of the cone a bit, although not all the way!!! I assumed that this was not repairable? There are a couple of very small holes in the cone on closer inspection just to make it worse. I might get in touch with Wembly Loudspeakers and see if there's any way the driver could be repaired - great if it could. I like the sound of the speaker so it would be worth doing. Thanks for the tip and if it works out I owe you a beer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [size=4]If the speaker still works, put a pp3 across the terminals to test it first, then perhaps a bit of sealing wax or something similar might just repair it, if not you could try here, [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.audioloudspeakers.co.uk/boultons.shtml as an other option.[/font][/color][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1348783624' post='1818333'] [size=4]If the speaker still works, put a pp3 across the terminals to test it first, then perhaps a bit of sealing wax or something similar might just repair it, if not you could try here, [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][url="http://www.audioloudspeakers.co.uk/boultons.shtml"]http://www.audioloud.../boultons.shtml[/url] as an other option.[/font][/color][/size] [/quote] Good idea. If the coil is fine you can use small patches of lens cleaning tissue glued with PVA to both sides of the holes to effect a repair, though if the hole are that small they probably won't make any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1348788923' post='1818415'] Good idea. If the coil is fine you can use small patches of lens cleaning tissue glued with PVA to both sides of the holes to effect a repair, though if the hole are that small they probably won't make any difference. [/quote] I think the coil is OK but haven't got a PP9 to test it!!! It was working fine before I worked my magic and knackered it!! I think you're right, I can definitely sort the minor holes out with PVA, it's just those very thin wires that go from the terminals to the cone. If they haven't ripped right out, and it doesn't look as if they have, can they actually be re-connected to the terminals with solder. Showing my ignorance here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Do you mean the braided wires? If the braided wires have come adrift of the very fine single copper wires inside the cone, then yes you can fix it. Done it myself a few times. I am assuming that the terminal end of braided wires are floating around on a broken bit of brown stuff that should be fixed to a spoke of the speaker. If this is the case it would be best to fix the actual speaker terminals to a bit of plastic or something and re-attach it to the speaker chassis. Hot melt glue may be your friend here or a nut and bolt or pop rivet. Using a small craft knife, scratch away at the black stuff covering the end of the seriously thin wires inside the cone that attach to the braided wires. When the thin wires are exposed, push the braided wires back through the holes in the cone and solder to the thin wires. There may be some black stuff on the ends of the braided wires as well and this will need to be scraped off. Once you've soldered the wires together, check that the speaker works and fill the holes in the cone to secure the braiding and cover any exposed seriously thin wire as well so that it doesn't move around and break again. A magnifying glass and a strong light is very helpful in your quest. I hope this helps. Good luck. PS I've fixed microphones capsules with broken voice coil wires in the same way. The things you have to do when you're poor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1348838519' post='1818934'] Do you mean the braided wires? If the braided wires have come adrift of the very fine single copper wires inside the cone, then yes you can fix it. Done it myself a few times. I am assuming that the terminal end of braided wires are floating around on a broken bit of brown stuff that should be fixed to a spoke of the speaker. If this is the case it would be best to fix the actual speaker terminals to a bit of plastic or something and re-attach it to the speaker chassis. Hot melt glue may be your friend here or a nut and bolt or pop rivet. Using a small craft knife, scratch away at the black stuff covering the end of the seriously thin wires inside the cone that attach to the braided wires. When the thin wires are exposed, push the braided wires back through the holes in the cone and solder to the thin wires. There may be some black stuff on the ends of the braided wires as well and this will need to be scraped off. Once you've soldered the wires together, check that the speaker works and fill the holes in the cone to secure the braiding and cover any exposed seriously thin wire as well so that it doesn't move around and break again. A magnifying glass and a strong light is very helpful in your quest. I hope this helps. Good luck. PS I've fixed microphones capsules with broken voice coil wires in the same way. The things you have to do when you're poor! [/quote] Yes, the braided wires that go from the speaker terminals on the chassis (bolted to the frame) and into the cone itself. They appear to be VERY thin braided copper wires. Right, I have (fortunately) a stand alone magnifying glass so got down to it and the fine braided copper wires that disappear int the cone (beside the coil) are still connected at the coil end. I can re-seat them with copydex OK. One of the braided wires has snapped mid way between the speaker terminal and where it disappears into the cone so, with much tentativeness, I have managed to re-solder the two pieces together! The other wire didn't break and is still connected to the terminal. This means that once I've glued the braided wires back in situ where they meet the coil I'm in business. The ancient (bakelite?) bracket upon which the speaker terminals are located broke into 3 pieces and it looks as if it was previously repaired a long time ago so I have cleaned up the terminals, removed all the wires, and with the help of some credit-card thickness plastic for brackets I have managed to join the 3 sections together with areldite. So far it's holding fine. So, once I've copydex'd the braided wires and repaired the very small hole in the cone I should be able to re-attach the terminal bracket to the speaker frame and........solder the speaker wires and the braided wires!!!! Thanks for all the encouragement ......when I removed the chassis and had the terminal bracket hanging there in 3 pieces I assumed it was terminal ...sorry!....but if nothing else the speaker is getting a second chance and if it works then I'll be over the moon. I'll post a photo once it's assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Congratulations. A job well jobbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share Posted September 29, 2012 Well, having spent this morning giving the chassis a service and putting the whole thing! back together I'm very happy to report that the driver is working perfectly!!! Clearly nothing inside the coil was damaged and it sounds just as good as it always has. [IMG]http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx272/surfguy13/WEM%20Dominator%20Bass%20Mk%201/WEMDominatorBassMk123.jpg[/IMG] Thanks once again for all the advice and help and would still be interested in a 15", 16ohm driver if anyone has one spare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Looks like a very tidy repair. Great result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Good effect on target. Nice outcome, it's awesome when an old friend comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfguy13 Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1348941914' post='1820017'] Looks like a very tidy repair. Great result! [/quote] [quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1348952808' post='1820168'] Good effect on target. Nice outcome, it's awesome when an old friend comes around. [/quote] Yeah, it's great to get the old lady back up and running. My pure stupidity in the first place which made it 1000% worse but interestingly I not only have the speaker repaired and working but have also found and resolved the original issue that decided me to remove the chassis in the first place!!! I was getting a slight noise on the decaying note, particularly with bass through it, a sound something like breaking glass that was irritating but nothing mega. Anyway, having been right through the entire amp and serviced the components on the chassis, tightened up bolts etc etc, not only is the driver repaired and sounding good.....the noise has gone!! Yesssss! If anyone is bored as hell you might like to see the WEM naked and in all her glory......... [url="http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx272/surfguy13/WEM%20Dominator%20Bass%20Mk%201/"]http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx272/surfguy13/WEM%20Dominator%20Bass%20Mk%201/[/url] A big thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread....great result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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