wishface Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hello, this is my first post here. I've been playing bass (though not professionally at all) for 20 odd years, but it's been a while since I studied properly. I have a reasonable self taught technique and I don't claim to be any kind of wizkid on the instrument As my first question, I'm probably going to be asking the worst question possible, but I'm prompted to ask about slap. I know how to slap, but not very well. I can do it in a basic slow kind of way, slap and pop. But i'm trying to figure out how people manage the quick runs. I'm guessing there must be some trick to it beyond merely having a loose wrist. I've seen a lot of clips of all kinds of people doing the fast stuff. It's not normally stuff I'd play, but I like it when interesting musicians use it like Les Claypool and Jonas Hellborg. But I have never been able to figure out how they get to be so quick. I know there's a double thump technique, but I'm going to rule that out, my bass ain't all that great and it's a technique I'm not interested in learning, besides there are plenty of fast slappers (!) out there that don't do this (I'm guessing). So if anyone knows a good overview and some exercises that can help develop this properly I'd be very grateful. I tend to find that I run out of ideas very quickly when I slap: it's a technique that seems to provoke a limited vocabulary in my playing - slap a low note, pop a high/octave note, then do a hammer on. It'd be nice to broaden that. PS: my favourite players include Geddy, Geezer Butler, Chris Squire, Jah Wobble, Bill Laswell, T-Lev, the late Mick Karn, Steve Harris, and the Ozric Tentacles always had good bassists, and probably others as well. I also like mucking around chordally. Thanks for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_one_visits Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I recommend a book by Stuart Clayton called ultimate slap bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wal4string Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Nothing wrong with wanting to learn to slap. In my opinion it's what bassists do, so always a good idea to be able to play. I don't slap all the time but if a song calls for it then I do. Mark King uses a slap technique which involves hitting a string with the left hand without plucking with the right hand. This can clearly be heard on the Level 42 hit "Love Games". With this technique really fast runs can be played. Not sure about double thumbing maybe another chatter can answer. One thing I will say about slap it is great fun to play and well worth learning. Not seen the Stuart Clayton book but I am familiar with his Level 42 Transcriptions, which are highly recommended but are now like rocking horse droppings....... very hard to find. [attachment=112683:1.png] LH = left hand hit, no right hand Edited July 10, 2012 by wal4string Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have a basic grasp of slap. Again self taught, but slap is a difficult thing to advance self taught (ime, obviously not for the likes of flea or les claypool). I end up playing the same boxy patterns as a result. What I'm specifically looking for are the tricks that people use to do the fast stuff (but not doublethumping, that's just not possible on my bass and frankly I am not interested in it). Plenty of players don't use (I think): Flea doesn't (though he's a bit sloppy at time, and i'm not a huge chili pepper fan), I don't think JOnas Hellborg or Claypool do - and they are more where I'm coming from. My style is almost more like flamenco with strumming involved and so I want to explore that with the fast stuff - rather than just be another Marcus Miller clone. Thanks. For instance this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ycLnSKOL4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ycLnSKOL4[/url] What is he actually doing? Some muted popping, but I can't see the trick to the full triplet. It's not left hand slap (which I just cannot make work at all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Sounds like you have a very particular and specific style in mind... which makes it much harder to give you advice! Listen to lots of slap players. Find the ones you like. Listen hard to what they are doing and if possible watch them live or on video. Try to do what they do. This method has always worked for me - but it does take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1341854176' post='1725177'] I have never been able to figure out how they get to be so quick. [/quote] Lots of practice! And, as you say, a relaxed wrist certainly helps. Slap doesn't have to be limited to simply root/octave slaps, pops and hammer-ons. You can play any line by slapping it. In fact that's a good way to practice speed and add to your repertoire. Marcus Miller is great at this... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qji84EgLEio"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qji84EgLEio[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1341915249' post='1725961'] Sounds like you have a very particular and specific style in mind... which makes it much harder to give you advice! Listen to lots of slap players. Find the ones you like. Listen hard to what they are doing and if possible watch them live or on video. Try to do what they do. This method has always worked for me - but it does take time. [/quote]The style, if I have one (i'm not really sure), is, like all of us, a melding of influences. I'm hesitant to say i have astyle because what influences me is never something i listen to enough to really develop as I have attention problems. So I listen to The Word by Hellborg and I found it really interesting, but I don't learn any of it and probably never will, and that's the same with pretty much anyone that isn't a more conventional player. When it comes to playing I don't have a band and am more inclined to noodle along with geezer butler or geddy lee than try and copy Hellborg (he's far too good), but I really like the way he uses the bass as its own instrument with chords. Same with Claypool, in his own weird way (even though most everything he's done sounds the same because he's never found instrument players to complement what he's doing as its so busy). So I'm interested in slap and the tricks involved, but to a point. Being able to use it to express my ideas and articulate myself is more relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1341913421' post='1725923'] I have a basic grasp of slap. Again self taught, but slap is a difficult thing to advance self taught (ime, obviously not for the likes of flea or les claypool). I end up playing the same boxy patterns as a result. What I'm specifically looking for are the tricks that people use to do the fast stuff (but not doublethumping, that's just not possible on my bass and frankly I am not interested in it). Plenty of players don't use (I think): Flea doesn't (though he's a bit sloppy at time, and i'm not a huge chili pepper fan), I don't think JOnas Hellborg or Claypool do - and they are more where I'm coming from. My style is almost more like flamenco with strumming involved and so I want to explore that with the fast stuff - rather than just be another Marcus Miller clone. Thanks. For instance this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ycLnSKOL4[/media] What is he actually doing? Some muted popping, but I can't see the trick to the full triplet. It's not left hand slap (which I just cannot make work at all). [/quote] The pattern that he's playing at the end is: Index finger pop, middle finger pop, thumb, index finger pop, left hand slap, thumb, index finger pop, thumb, thumb. I find that getting both index and middle finger popping at speed takes a little work, but that's the pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero9 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You may want to check out Jonas Hellborg's Thumb Basics and 'Slap it' by Tony Oppenheim (you might find some 'free' downloads), which focus on getting a good clean technique (starting slow) including playing triplet slap using your thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Hector' timestamp='1341919789' post='1726109'] The pattern that he's playing at the end is: Index finger pop, middle finger pop, thumb, index finger pop, left hand slap, thumb, index finger pop, thumb, thumb. I find that getting both index and middle finger popping at speed takes a little work, but that's the pattern. [/quote] I thought it must be something like that, but I didn't see the left hand slap. I can't get any sound when I slap with my left hand. It's a move that doesn't feel right to me. Edited July 10, 2012 by wishface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 also, whilst you're just learning, now seems a good time to say "metronome, metronome, metronome"; there's nothing worse than a sloppy slapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Bajo Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1341925939' post='1726281'] I thought it must be something like that, but I didn't see the left hand slap. I can't get any sound when I slap with my left hand. It's a move that doesn't feel right to me. [/quote] Theres various reasons for not getting a percussive sound with your left hand. it could be Bass EQ, strings, technique or maybe you haven't got your bass amp turned up loud. Try Ed Friedlands slap DVD. really good for getting the fundamentals as well as a few fancy bits. I went through a phase like you. I just wanted to be able to pull out some nice riffs that sounded like I wasn't throwing my bass down the stairs. I'm in a metal band now so I don't really get to do the technique apart from slapping for the tone (I was accused of trying to sound like Level 42 by the guitarist, Mark King denied!?!), but I have a lickle noodle when I get the fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 I've just found that in my local library. Hurrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1341925939' post='1726281'] I thought it must be something like that, but I didn't see the left hand slap. I can't get any sound when I slap with my left hand. It's a move that doesn't feel right to me. [/quote] It certainly won't be a loud sound - and can vary from a click to a thump depending on how light (or otherwise!) your touch is. You don't want your action too low either... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJutye9b7C4&feature=fvwrel&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJutye9b7C4&feature=fvwrel&NR=1[/url] Edited July 11, 2012 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Conan, that's a great post - I've been looking to learn some of the basics of the technique, if for nothing more than giving me something else to work on. That video was superb. Would you also be able to advise on any EQ changes you'd recommend to nail the tone? Assume big tone/treble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1342010600' post='1727944'] It certainly won't be a loud sound - and can vary from a click to a thump depending on how light (or otherwise!) your touch is. You don't want your action too low either... v=lJutye9b7C4&feature=fvwrel&NR=1[/url] [/quote]Thanks for this. I came across this chap, today, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90aDMnRpGXE&feature=relmfu whom I had never heard of before. Even though he does the usual tapping stuff, the mix of slap and strum is more what I'm interested in, and some of these pieces are really listenable. But I have no idea how he's doing this if he isn't using alternate tunings. Edited July 12, 2012 by wishface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote name='El Bajo' timestamp='1341932288' post='1726421'] Try Ed Friedlands slap DVD. really good for getting the fundamentals as well as a few fancy bits. I went through a phase like you. I just wanted to be able to pull out some nice riffs that sounded like I wasn't throwing my bass down the stairs. I'm in a metal band now so I don't really get to do the technique apart from slapping for the tone (I was accused of trying to sound like Level 42 by the guitarist, Mark King denied!?!), but I have a lickle noodle when I get the fancy. [/quote]THis is a great dvd. Presentation is just right and it does cover pretty much all the basics. If only theft from libraries was morally correct and legal. That was a joke. Don't slap me down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marwood Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Have you heard of the slap bass program by Alexis Sklarevski? Instructional video from the 80's by a bass teacher at MI, has been reissued on dvd now, breaks down everything really well... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aK-QFwaRZc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aK-QFwaRZc&feature=related[/url] Edited July 18, 2012 by marwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1342030604' post='1728480'] Conan, that's a great post - I've been looking to learn some of the basics of the technique, if for nothing more than giving me something else to work on. That video was superb. Would you also be able to advise on any EQ changes you'd recommend to nail the tone? Assume big tone/treble? [/quote] I believe Scott is a member on here (or at least was a few months ago). His videos are really good! As far as EQ goes, a lot depends on personal preferences. I actually use pretty much the same tone for slap as I do for fingerstyle - but then again I use a pretty bright tone to start with. Newish strings help IMO. There is certainly no need to whack up the top end, and it can end up sounding harsh if you overdo it. Don't shy away from the mids either - for some reason a lot of slap players think you need to cut the mid for slapping. If you like that tone then fine, but I actually like a bit of midrange to give definition. The scooped sound is fine when practicing by yourself, but it gets lost in a band scenario. Plus, it obviously works for some players, as this gorgeous line demonstrates... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QYSu9xaTE[/media] Edited July 18, 2012 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 I've been watching the Ed Friedland video, but it doesn't give you enough real exercises to develop speed and dexterity. It's good for showing the techniques, and there's some good left hand slap exercises, but not for developing it. Slapping scales doesn't really feel right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 [quote name='marwood' timestamp='1342601105' post='1737504'] Have you heard of the slap bass program by Alexis Sklarevski? Instructional video from the 80's by a bass teacher at MI, has been reissued on dvd now, breaks down everything really well... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aK-QFwaRZc&feature=related[/media] [/quote]how on god's earth do you do that finger slapping thing (i've seen some indian guy do it as well, tabla rhythms), it seems your wrist has to bend in a very weird way around the instrument's body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marwood Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 This clip is close to the end of the dvd where it gets tricky, but the whole thing it is actually really good as a step by step guide to a solid technique if you don't mind the 80's thing going on! Have looked at a few other dvds on slap, but this is my fav... recommended! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 [quote name='marwood' timestamp='1342651119' post='1738916'] This clip is close to the end of the dvd where it gets tricky, but the whole thing it is actually really good as a step by step guide to a solid technique if you don't mind the 80's thing going on! Have looked at a few other dvds on slap, but this is my fav... recommended! [/quote] I thought that must be the case, it's pretty hardcore stuff It looks like a pretty comprehensive program, but it's gotten me thinking: just how many people/bands/songs do you hear that aren't bass player anthems that feature all this stuff? I'm beginning to wonder if it's really worth learning all this stuff. Everyone that plays bass on youtube does this stuff. It's everywhere, and really - is it musical? Would you want to listen to a song that was overpowered by crazy slap athletics and pop triplets? It sort of works for the likes of Les Claypool because it's done in a quirky comical way. Even Flea calmed himself down back in the day. You don't hear Bootsy doing these bass athletics. I'm really torn as to what I'm trying to achieve learning this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marwood Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Depends on your taste in music and what you wanna play I guess. For me, I love it when I hear the bass player in a band really locked into a groove, then throwing in little slap fillers without taking from the overall song, especially in funk or gospel.. I think the trick is to know how to do it, just don't do it all the time! This will re-inspire you, the fantastic Juan Nelson laying it down... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFQK9oU1bhs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFQK9oU1bhs[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 A great player (i've never heard of him before thoug fwiw). But actually I would have chosen to play that line using the fingers for that really funky fingerstyle sound. Slap these days is overproduced, though the alternative seems to be to emulate the Bootsy mutron sound which is not exactly an original choice either. I'm not dissing the technique, but I do wonder what the point of learning it is actually. I can already play that kind of line (touchwood) so do i need to learn anything else? How many bands are looking for doublethump pop triplet victor wooten clones? As much as Wooten is technically incredible - and i'm sure a top bloke - I have never listend to his playing other than as a technical thing. I have no real desire to buy his records. So I agree that it's best used sparingly. But as Laswell observed years ago; it's been done to death! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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