Understanding 5's and notation!

[stingrayPete1977]

Well as the usual bun fights continue on both subjects I have spent some time (not that much really IMO) learning to read. I have used lots of methods including a book by MI, Music reading for bass. I have also used the Bass clef App from Frodis which also has a full (4, 5 or 6 string Left/right handed) fingerboard trainer to notes on the staff which in the last week or less I have really gone at until the notes started to relate to the staff. I would say I can read bass clef now as I have completed a couple of tracks from start to finish by working each part out then playing the whole song along in time (Not quite sight reading but not much of a run through before either) Sittin' on the dock of the bay-Otis Reading and The Police-every breath you take. Both songs I could easily blag at a jam night without much bother but the notation gives it the basic feel then you can embelish from there as you would anyway, Im really starting to see what the readers say about using ears and eyes, The groove etc, Everything! Im looking at positional stuff and its becoming clearer without taking any personal feel away at all (there is nothing to say where you have to play what note and sticking an extra pair of semi quavers in where a quaver is wont kill anyone or kill the groove against popular myth is seams

Also and I know this is a bit of a sticking point for some but I flicked the page and found Clocks by Cold Play (not my fav band but thats not the point right now, Its all about exposure to different note length structures etc) well its in EbMaj and I was playing my SR4 as thats what was out, Hhmm this is tricky can I be arsed to detune it all a step only to need to put it back to go over the 2 tracks I have nailed again? No, whip out the SR5 and its job done 4th fret B string Up until now I have only been using it for the extra low notes for the live band stuff for the artist "Dave Barron" in my sig below as again against popular myth some tracks have riffs or walking bass lines crossing 3 octaves from a low B that would be impossible to play on a four (I didnt write them BTW).


This isnt a preach to read music or buy a 5'er do what you like its nowt to do with me but for anyone who is concidering either I have to say both reading and the inherant theory that is being applied and possibly more importantly observed as I go coupled to counting the time more accurately have moved my playing up a notch since just last Christmas after 20+ years of playing there is no doubt about it. And the five for some keys is an absolute bonus in fact its growing on me for all keys although I still like my fours which Im happy to play unless its in EbMaj

[stingrayPete1977]

Should I learn Tom Petty-Free Fallin' or Friday Im in love-The cure next?

BTW the book is called Bass Along 10 classic rock songs with a Ricky on the front, Are there more of these books or does anyone know of similar ones maybe with more songs in? These are just notation charts which is great IMO too.

Edited April 22, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[nobodysprefect]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1208734' date='Apr 23 2011, 01:00 AM']five for some keys is an absolute bonus in fact its growing on me for all keys although I still like my fours which Im happy to play unless its in EbMaj [/quote]

Abso-f***en-lutely.

Ever since I started working with a number of vocalists on a rotation I found that a five was a bare necessity to retain (in hindsight, the wrong) figments of my sanity. You fours players may laugh now, but just you wait until you start pulling those offers for 170 quid a night to play Stevie Wonder and could you please transpose a whole tone and a semi down while you're at it since the vocalists range really benefits from that?

Would love to see you lot pull off 'Isn't She Lovely' or 'Sir Duke' transposed 3 semitones down on a EADG Fender, I would!

Edited April 22, 2011 by nobody's prefect

[stingrayPete1977]

The funny thing is in less than a year I have eaten my words on both fivers (with a public appology on here )and reading notation. It started after A-I felt I could do with being able to jot down some fairly awkward bass lines written by someone else and B-The guy in my sig had written and recorded everything on his album on a 5 and used it to its full potential musically rather than just for positional reasons.

Im loving it and the enthusiasm both things have brought with them


ps, I still cant play Sir Duke even on a 5

[skej21]

It's great news that you're enjoying it Pete.

The only bit of advice I would have now is start expanding your reading library. One of the best things you can do for your reading once you get the basics, is to throw yourself in at the deep end and try reading things you don't know or haven't played before.

Best thing to do is have LOTS of notated bass parts. Start a piece and play it until you make a mistake. When you make a mistake, turn the page and play something different.

Keep doing this and soon enough, you'll be flicking a page and playing through a piece you've never seen before, start to finish (first time) with very few errors.

It also helps you to avoid using your memory, which is a big problem for musicians who learn to read later in their playing. They've usually relied on memory and things stick in their head quickly, so you don't want to run through something 3 times and then not need the dots anymore.

Give it a try, and hope it helps!

P.s. Also, if you stumble across anything that you can't seem to figure out (like easy ways to count double dotted notes, or make sure your triplets/quintuplets are even and not rushed!) Just shout!

Edited April 23, 2011 by skej21

[stingrayPete1977]

Ta Skej, None of the songs in the book are ones I know when I say jam it I really mean off the cuff sort of muddle through. Already being able to play isn't helping because I can cheat by reading the chord above the bar and improvise a bar off that which I guess is also useful if you get lost but I am trying not to look at them.

[stingrayPete1977]

I have some sticky labels I use for colour coding smoke detector zones at work, Any colour preference?

[skej21]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1208947' date='Apr 23 2011, 09:30 AM']Already being able to play isn't helping because I can cheat by reading the chord above the bar and improvise a bar off that which I guess is also useful if you get lost but I am trying not to look at them.[/quote]

To be fair, that's not cheating at all. I'd bet there are a lot of players who do this for a number of reasons, I know I do.

It not only gets you out of a hole if there's a complicated bass run that you think you'd mess up if you tried to read it, but there will be times that you read a bass line and you can tell it was written by someone who knows nothing about bass.

In the latter situation, use the chords to make the bass line sound more like a bass line. I've got a few function gigs doing that, where you get the guitarist/drummer/singer or whoever saying 'that's the best I've heard that line in ages!'... Reality is, that's because you've applied your musicianship to make it a bass line from the chords, rather than a guitar part in bass clef.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm going to get working on the next song now then!

[stingrayPete1977]

Just an update to say thanks to Bloodaxe for the notation stuff he has sent me to help me in my thirst for knowledge, There are some good folk here at BassChat

I have a lesson booked for a week tomorrow so I better get cracking instead of being on here!

[TKenrick]

Apologies for the self-promotion, but there's plenty off stuff to read [url="http://tomkenrick.wordpress.com/basstranscriptions/"]here[/url]

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='TKenrick' post='1212025' date='Apr 26 2011, 08:39 PM']Apologies for the self-promotion, but there's plenty off stuff to read [url="http://tomkenrick.wordpress.com/basstranscriptions/"]here[/url][/quote]
No appology needed, thankyou.

[skej21]

Dunno if this is useful or not?

Program displays a two bar rhythm and you tap it out on the space bar (if you find one you can't do, there's a 'listen to' button ).

It's pretty basic stuff, but thought you might find it useful for practicing reading rhythms whilst on the computer/basschat

[url="http://www.emusictheory.com/practice/rhythmPerf.html"]http://www.emusictheory.com/practice/rhythmPerf.html[/url]

[stingrayPete1977]

Sounds good I will have a look over the weekend, Ta

[Musicman20]

I cant read music at all, well I could a little, and earned a few grades and a GCSE (A Grade somehow!), but now? Nope.

I should learn, but I know I have too much else going on.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1213548' date='Apr 28 2011, 09:36 AM']I cant read music at all, well I could a little, and earned a few grades and a GCSE (A Grade somehow!), but now? Nope.

I should learn, but I know I have too much else going on.[/quote]

I really am just fitting it in where I can Gareth there is no real goal because there is always more to learn, The one fact is that I know more now than I did before which has to be good IMO and I dont mean just the reading bit, The whole mathmatics of the bass are becoming clearer each time I spend an hour on it.

[BottomE]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1214036' date='Apr 28 2011, 06:18 PM']I really am just fitting it in where I can Gareth there is no real goal because there is always more to learn, The one fact is that I know more now than I did before which has to be good IMO and I dont mean just the reading bit, The whole mathmatics of the bass are becoming clearer each time I spend an hour on it.[/quote]
I think i am traveling a very similar path to you at the moment Mr Stingray. Apart from the 5's i know exaclty where you are coming from in terms of this process providing an expansion of possibility. Quite exciting really. Good luck.

And i have nailed Sir Duke

[stingrayPete1977]

Cool it's good isn't it? I would actually argue the case that learning to read even basically like me does make you a better player as contentious an argument as that may be. Tighter timing must be related to reading and having to think about what notes are where and their relationship with each other etc, ok you can argue that's theory rather than reading but until trying to read I have never really tried to learn theory alone have you? The reading just gives you more reason to apply the theory in a thoughful manner at all times so even if you rarely use the new found skill of reading or being able to write down your own compositions it will have a positive outcome on your general playing.

The 5 is another contentious point but when I tried playing a song that was in Ebmaj being able to do it without downtuning a four was easy and the single position shift rather than two on the four makes reading and playing much easier. I still read and play my acoustic four just not in E flat.

Sir Duke sight read has to be my next goal then

[stingrayPete1977]

Just to clarify I mean makes me a better player than I was before, not better than every none reader before the bun fight starts!

Edited April 28, 2011 by stingrayPete1977