Lord Sausage

It was Guns 'n' Roses. In the last couple of weeks I've started listening to em again....and I f***in love it!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472158334' post='3119048'] To me even just recording your own album in the basement is performing, once it's being done to entertain someone else be it live or recorded it's a performance and has artistic merit, the worst dross you have ever heard might be a number 1 hit, the fantastic album might never get burnt to a cd. Tricky aint it? [/quote] may i just say i don't think being a trained musician makes you a better (artistically) performer, writer etc than someone who isn't.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472156900' post='3119033'] You are missing my point, you can be a musician either by qualifications or as a recognised performer of music, there are many unqualified musicians who I think most of us would agree are still musicians, an electrician without qualifications is not an electrician even if they are good at it, at best they would be described as 'handy' or something. If you employed an electrician with certain grades and extra certificates for extra associated skills you should get what you pay for, jib rates even try and pin that down whereas a musician is an artist imo, my neighbour loves opera and classical music, I wouldn't enjoy his music collection and he wouldn't enjoy mine, the level of qualifications gained or albums sold have no bearing on the final unquantifiable product do they? [/quote] Unless i'm not understanding you you are talking about performance. You can get work as a musician that isn't just performance. Arranging, composing, teaching, conductors, MD's, choir leaders etc. But performance wise, in terms of clasical and opera (obviously talent is unquantifiable) but the better trained (qualified musicians) tend to get more of the work. I have two mates who are drummers. One who is self taught and a great drummer, one who went through The Royal Northern and has loads of qualifications. Guess which one tours the world with the BBC Orchestra, Halle Orchestra, does musical theatre work, teaches in conservatoires and schools etc etc etc and guess which one plays in pub bands and soul bands!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472114106' post='3118557'] As an electrician and a musician (still open for debate) I'd say the difference there is that my qualifications as an electrician are quantifiable where art isn't, does a grade 8 on violin make you any more enjoyable to listen to if the person listening hates the sound of a violin? [/quote] As a qualified musician(are my many music qualifications unquantifiable) and someone who can change a plug. I'd say whether someone enjoys your violin playing or not has no bearing on whether you are a musician or not.

I'd say to be a musician you need to be able to understand most of the disciplines. Playing, reading, composing and understanding theory and other instruments. You wouldn't say you were an electrician just because you can change a plug!

At college a lecturer told me that when he was asked what he did for a living he replied "I'm a piano player". People would then ask him what tunes he knew and could he play this or that. After a while he got fed up of this, so when people asked him he started saying "I'm a musician". He said people then would say "really!? What drugs do you take".

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1470850417' post='3108963'] I lie awake worrying about it. Your dismissal of my pain amounts to insensitivity beyond measure. You'll be playing Heavy Metal on the wrong bass next. [/quote] hahaha

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1470584514' post='3106900'] Good-natured trolling aside; I've had the misfortune to meet not a few folk in my career who actually subscribe to that view. Sad. [/quote] ha ha really. I'd love to meet them!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1470584149' post='3106894'] Maybe you should have that debate in a separate thread if it's nothing to do with this thread then. [/quote] Well it does, as it was in reply to a statement within this thread!

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1470587345' post='3106916'] I can only think you are wondering what "Heeheehee" means... It's just that I h8 using acronyms, abreviations and initialisms such as lol and I dislike txtspk generally. Sorry for any confusion but I thought what you said was funny and I larfed. [/quote]I thought you were just laughing at "look mate"

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1470573618' post='3106785'] I'm not a big fan of the song. It reminds me of a couple of experiences in my student days of jamming with people who decided they were going to get into jazz without having bothered to listen to any jazz! For some reason, this song always crops up in that situation. I actually like the idea of jazz-influenced pop, but I can think of some much more enjoyable examples, like some of Joni Mitchell's output. [/quote] All you've gotta do is stick a 7th and another number on a chord and it becomes jazz. It's easy really! Don't listen to all these jazz guys who want to make it seem like a mystery. They just want to seem intellectual and more talented than the rest of us! It's as easy Katy Perry songs!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1470573209' post='3106783'] Has anyone said they didn't like it without listening to it though? That's what I struggle with when the monthly Jaco thread comes up, lol I listened to it and (for me) it sucks [/quote] No, i think what you struggle with is reading and understanding what people have written. My original point on this had nothing to do with Jaco. Coilte said that there is a difference between technical music and music that speaks to people. I said that sometimes technical music speaks to some people. I also said that most of it doesn't connect with me. We both agreed on that. I then said in general i think if people don't like technical music just because it's technical i find that ignorant. Not you, or people that do listen. But people who automatically dismiss music that is technical and state only 3 chord songs are real and connect with people. I think i've said it enough times now!

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1470574101' post='3106789'] Heeheehee. [/quote]?

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1470572625' post='3106773'] ...and Marmite [/quote] Look mate don't start on f***in Marmite. I can handle people not liking Music but if they start on yeast extracts I go f***in mental!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1470567800' post='3106737'] Well I'm not sure I like this idea that it's "ignorant", we've been here many times before, surely to be ignorant requires me to ignor his music and them claim to dislike like without hearing it? I have tried but I still do not connect with it. [/quote] Where did i say [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"if you dont like Jaco you are probably crap at playing and only like rock music in straight 8ths" [/font][/color] , [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What i said is that it is ignorant just to not like something just because it is technical or musical, just on that basis. I was refering to music in general. If you don't like any music that is technical and you don't like it for that reason, that it is technical, then i think without listening to or understanding it within it's context then you are being ignorant. [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also said in my most that i don't like most technical music, usually when it's for the sake of it![/font][/color]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1470528407' post='3106583'] This always gets thrown back worded in a similar way (normally by blue ),the old "if you dont like Jaco you are probably crap at playing and only like rock music in straight 8ths" kind of response, for me it's not that I don't like technical playing, I don't like Jaco's technical playing!! [/quote] That's not what i was saying

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1470517089' post='3106548'] I agree with what you say. Perhaps I was a bit vague in my earlier post. The point I was making was that just because a player is technical, complex, and flashy (talking generally here) does not necessarily mean that what he/she plays communicates with the listener. It may communicate with fellow bass players alright. Yes, it is possible, but for me, not in Jaco's case. The OP makes my point for me in post #11 when he talks about the bass playing [u]around[/u]...rather than being the music. I do like some of his work with Joni Mitchell. [/quote] I agree, more often than not it won't connect!

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1470508924' post='3106493'] I agree. I was just giving my opinion that Jaco's amazing technical playing does not "talk" to [i]me.[/i] Going by some of the posts in this thread, I am not alone. [/quote] It's a fair point and most people don't like technical playing. I don't a lot of the time. But i also feel it's ignorant to not like something just because its's technical or musical. It always depends on the requirements of the music. Even The Stranglers have shredding on No more heroes for example. I also dislike the idea stuff has to be simple to be real and worthwhile, the Indie/punk mentality. I really like Indie/punk. I like most forms of music, even bloody Country now which i used to hate.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1470480213' post='3106274'] I'm sure that most won't argue with this. Amazing technical bass playing is one thing. Most people would not deny Jaco's skills here. Playing music that touches people, and "talks" to them, is an entirely different matter. [/quote] Sometimes amazing technical playing and musicianship touches people or talks to them!

Whenever Jaco plays on something the piece just becomes a Jaco piece! Great playing, he's almost as good as me!

What wood is it? Is it clear gloss or colour then clear gloss?

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1469916842' post='3102042'] Van Morrison Isn't as important to Jazz as Peter Rabbit and Mrs Tiggie Winkle [/quote] I thought Mrs Tiggie Winkle's work on Bitches Brew was sublime!

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1469894284' post='3101857'] Careful, Viscount Snorker. Your ignorance is showing. B-) [/quote] And if you are going to use one of my other titles I prefer Duke of Cumberland or Earl of Lincolnshire!

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1469894284' post='3101857'] Careful, Viscount Snorker. Your ignorance is showing. B-) [/quote] Next you'll be telling me that van Morrison isn't as important to jazz as Thelonius Monk or Dizzy Gillespie!

MoonDance is the absolute pinnacle of Jazz! Nothing better has been written in that genre. It captures all the musical elements of Jazz but has the quality of that it is listenable and catchy!