EBS_freak

OK - I'll bite. Back to the sub harmonic vs sub bass thing. Yes, they are different - but the sub harmonic leads to an addition in the sub bass frequencies unless there is a hpf going on that prevents it from doing so. So whether they are different or not, the problem that results is the same. It goes to reason that adding the 1st order subharmonic of a note at say 70Hz, is going to give you 35Hz, which I think we can confirm is a figure that sits firmly in the sub bass range. So given that, it's not unreasonable to suggest that using sub harmonics introduces the low end sub bass mush that we have been discussing. As part of a marketing (gimmick?) I guess it could convince some people to think - "wow, this amp sounds so massive in the bass - it's so massive sounding and fat, so much more than the bass amp next to it “ and ultimately bag a sale... when in reality, that sonic trait is going to be completely detrimental to their band's sound.

Sounds like you are on it and understand the fundamentals of getting a balanced “bottom end” on stage.

A quick google suggests that they were gold/bronze. Either way, I've now got google search engine regret. No doubt the next Cambridge Analytica is going to have a field day with their targetted ads. Most subwoofers will struggle to produce anything meaningful at 30hz. Most non pro subwoofers support up to around 40 hz (but even then with big tail offs. 20 Hz is completely out of the equation as far as (standard) speakers go really. So if you've ever run a bass guitar through subs with boosted lows (say 40-80) through subs, you'll soon appreciate why using them in this manner would be undesirable in most venues. PS _ What you just explained is what I alluded to above - or a band pass filter to be more specific.

The reason your bass sounds meaty is effectively you are doing a massive bass boost in the eq before slamming it with a hpf (thumpinator) that is removing all the sub content. By doing the boost, all you are doing is compensating for the roll off that cabs naturally have in that range... and the drop in sensitivity in your ear (and eating a load of headroom from the amp). If your speakers can cope for it, great... but again, in the majority of venues, it will do you no favours on making your band sound good. Ashdown’s claims are that they are adding an octave down - which makes no sense if they then cut it with a hpf - that would make it simply an octave pedal in an amp... but with no sub content in a sub harmonic generator. If they do hpf it, it’s a bit of a marketing blunder. Dont get me wrong, Im a sub bass junkie - but also understand that introducing it in most venues is going to help you. Mushy, swampy reflections, trouble hearing the kick... the list continues... Right time, right place and all that... but why anybody would want to introduce such levels of sub bass on stage is just nonsensical. Leave that to the FoH. Anyway, this is a Mark King/Mark Bass thread... I feel we may be going off topic somewhat! Happy to have another thread started to continue musings on sub bass (although I don't think I can say that much more on the matter!)

Winning!

Ah yes, that time those leather trousers sold out when a particular politician embraced them...

Nothing has made me see red - just the experience of seeing bands struggle with bad sound and eq choices makes me face palm, especially when I then see functions such as sub harmonic features included on bass amps, when the vast majority of the environments in which they will be used will cause the user headaches. Most bass cabs, including Ashdown's own cabs, simply cannot cope with the lows associated with sub bass. You are looking at some very capable, specialist (read expensive) to achieve that with any magnitude of success.... Even then I would question why you would want to in most environments. The comment about using a octaver... well, most of them don't track in the lower registers anyway... so you are usually playing an octave higher than where you could be playing, with the octave pedal putting in the lower octave and/or the higher octave. As mentioned above, given the fact that most bass cabs can't cope with the fundamental of the lower bass strings anyway, God only knows why you would be trying to produce and push the sub harmonic content anyway. It's a one way street to nightmare soundsville. On a side note, I also see that you (Al) have tried to do something about clearing up the bottom end and not wasting amp power on this particularly useless area of the audio spectrum by including a thumpinator on your board. Anyway, as far as this "doom" thing is concerned, it's marketing nonsense and all it's going to do is encourage bass players to have subby indecipherable mush coming out front... and that won't hope with the overall band sound at all. Just to clarify, it's got nothing to do with Ashdown amps per se - anybody trying to recreate subharmonic content on the vast majority of stages needs a kicking. If I see red with regard to Ashdown amps, it's probably because it's on fire. Similarly, it could be the latest hideous paintjob from Markbass. I am with you on the inclusion of 3 slave outputs though - especially when the "Geezer" setup only ever seems to require one of those on each amp to ever be in use...?

Plus all that subharmonic garb is going to be responsible for pub bassists across the land sounding utterly cack. Sub bass doesn't work on small stages... and causes more headaches than it is worth.

They are not exactly out of keeping with the overall vibe. Kinda works for me... from a Mark Bass aesthetics thing.

If the existing one is dead - and this new one blew up when powered... is it just the ICE board that is at fault? Have you got some output shorted?

This has been interesting reading - I've just bought a Trustfire 9v off ebay on a whim. (I don't know why anybody would call a battery brand Trustfire... doesn't fill you with confidence does it?) Charges with a USB cable and 550mAh apparently. Reviews seem to check out... so lets see. I hate 9v batteries as they tend to be naff for longevity... but this could be a simple solution to a higher capacity rechargeable.

The userbase asked for it and got what they wanted... ...and now the wait continues for the official editor!

And now Kemper have (finally) released a floorboard format of the profiler. £1450. That's a few hundred quids saving of the traditional rack/toaster and pedalboard setup. Few hundred quid more than the full fat Helix. Interesting times ahead.

I don't quite get this - because this suggests that said POS car isn't performant as it's just a way of getting A/B. I think what you are saying is that the people driving them don't really care how they look or perform. Is this true with bass players? They don't care how amps sound or look? Would Ferrari's sell if they looked pants? What happens if they perform amazing and looked pants? Or looked great but performed pants? It's the sum of the two parts that makes a Ferrari great. Why wouldn't you want the same from your amp?

OK OK... so, here's my first impressions. They don't seem as thick in the bass - they are defo cleaner and more precise but maybe don't have the immediate weight of the ZS10s. Theres a roll off somewhere around 70 Hz I'd say, so I would tend to go for the ZS10s to have that weight in the kick and the sub. They are more revealing in the mids and treble - they seem more honest than the ZS10s but also bring on fatigue quicker. They are also a lot easier to drive - and consequently a lot louder... so defo watch your ear drums with these ones!

Indeed - but chrome would look better... and match the frets too.

No - cos it hasn't got the red paint job and those awful gold knobs.

I'd say looks do matter. There's something reassuring about a good looking and well made piece of gear. You see it in the car world... cars are on the whole functional... but if they are pig ugly, despite how well they are made and perform, there will be a negative impact on how they sell.

Pretty much any Darkglass amplifier. For me, they tick all the boxes with regard to a great looking amp.

I may be on my own, but that kinda shouts home electronics project to me... especially with the "Brush Flair.ttf" font.

Mark K is probably the most capable in the UK in terms of getting people to buy gear. If Status need a cash injection, they release a new take on a King Bass or whatever bass he happens to be using at the time. There will be plenty of middle class bankers, doctors, solicitors queuing up to drop the cash. Hell, that picture above has probably got more than a fair few Level 42 fans suddenly considering Mark Bass. In reality, whatever Mark K is using is irrelevant. The sound out front is processed by the desk and what he is hearing will be coming from wedges - or for those on inears, processed signal in the desk from a DI. The tone of a bass amp is becoming less and less relevant in these kind of scenarios. It’s probably why there’s a load of guys scratching their heads trying to figure out why they can’t cop the same tone down the Dog and Duck... it’s the lack of Digicos, Midas, Allen and Heaths etc which is holding their tone quest back!

Another enwhorsement chalked up!

Looks nothing like a Thunderbird, no siree, not at all. I think those two vertical lines down the body will put everybody off the scent for sure.

And still no mention of the Epiphone S310...

Lodestone will be chasing after them next... for that awful raised contour!