Phaedrus

[quote name='51m0n' post='709964' date='Jan 12 2010, 01:27 PM']Guitarists in your band need to downsize massivley. PA power is perfectly reasonable. Just cos you have a big PA doesnt mean you need to flog its knackers off, run it at a sensible volume and it will sound fantastic. 100w half stack is for stadia mate, not pubs. Any claim regarding tone is utter nonsense too, these days. Guitarists are hard to change, but if you guys want to sound good, hear what you are doing and impress the punters they will have to trust you on this one. Get them to get Cornford style 5-20 watt amps - tone to die for. Mic them and use their foldback to get them an onstage volume they like (did I mention you need to be able to run individual foldback mixes for vocals and each guitar? you do). Now set them right for FOH. Make sure the guitar amps are pointing straight at the guitarists heads (low on the floor angled back like a monitor is fine) - the amps arent there for the audience directly at all! Drummer may actually do better with a mic in the kick, and one overhead, just to lift him forward in the mix a tiny bit, not to be louder per se, but just to help a tad with presence. Also means (*if you have really good monitors*) that you can bleed a tiny bit of kick into the monitors too, can help tightne the band up a lot. If you need a small footprint go for vertically stacked 210s, or 112s, the height of the 210s is a massive bonus, and you still move as much air. 400w is about right IMO with reasonably sensitive cabs, and enough cone area & excursion. That way you arent asking too much of your amp, so it will sound better and also stay cooler, which will have an added bonus of stressing it less. By all means mic/DI the bass too, although I've not found a PA monitor yet that can handle real bass at anything other than the lowest levels (hence you still needing the big wattage so you are heard on stage) Vocals should be loud enough to be heard absolutely clearly, and with decent monitors and something like a dbx DriveRack there will be absolutely no feedback at all. If you really want to sound polished nothing else will do. The only issue is you will need someone running sound or some very detailed rehearsals and soundchecks for the first few goes. [b][i]This stuff is not trivial to set up right IMO.[/i][/b][/quote] We have great drum mics: all Audix - D6 kick, i5 snare, D2 & D4 toms. No overhead mics - his Sabian cymbals are all loud. The mics on the drums are more to facilitate a balanced mix of everything than to amplify them. We have SM57s on the guitar amps. We have the DriveRack PA (sort of a DriveRack lite, but it does have the feedback eliminator). We run the PA as an aux-fed sub system, so it's all pretty clean. The DriveRack PA is in the mains signal path, but not the subs. I'm pretty sure any feedback problems we've ever had were caused by pushing the monitors beyond their ability in order to hear our own vocals over the guitars & drums. We had a real moment of light at rehearsal last night. The loud guitarist suggested turning his amp 180[sup]o[/sup], to face all the way backwards - with it mic'd, there'd be little if any bleed of backline into FOH. We teased it out to a final intent to have both my bass amp and the main guitar amp turned 90[sup]o[/sup], facing in to the middle of the stage, so it'll be plenty loud for the band, but should have limited impact on FOH - the realisation seems to be growing that amp placement is as big a factor in all this as the number the volume knob is pointing at, or how many 12"s you're running (guitarist's stage name is . . . wait for it . . . Max Volume . . . ). I hope I'm not painting any of these guys as twats - they're great guys and good players and committed. It's just a general swing from focussing on personal volume to balanced overall mix that's taking place. The term "money no option" could be used in relation to this guitarist, but he's not flippant with it - a new amall combo is probably not realistically on the cards, but I was really encouraged by the enthusiasm and commitment towards the big picture (FOH) being paramount. The drummer has been talking about sorting the kit so that there's minimal boom from any drum. He's considering lighter cymbals too, though after spending the guts of €1000 this side of crimbo on the Audix mics, that'll be a long way down the road. To your comment I've put in bold italics: FOH is paramount, and there seems to be a growing awareness with these guys that this is the case. Light in the tunnel . . . On the bass amp for me front, I just keep returning to the Tour 450 & Tour410 (or TVX410 if the Tour410 is too expensive). My dad had his TNT150 for 10 years, I've used it for 5 - it's been rock solid and pretty versatile for a 15". I trust Peavey, I guess. Thanks for all your replies, Mark

Don't you know? They tit all the castors by hand . . . F is beside T. Fat fingers . . .

Hi, I've always been reluctant to wheel anything with speakers or electronics inside, even if the castors were factory-titted. I can't escape the concern that stuff will shake loose inside - does this happen? Mark

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='707438' date='Jan 10 2010, 10:40 AM']yup. with that size PA everyone should be going through it, with little amps on stage for monitoring only. Otherwise for pubs [b][i]it is a waste of time hauling all that PA gear around[/i].[/b][/quote] Which makes it difficult to ensure a balanced mix out front. I'd prefer for us all to be using backline amps that were just enough to deal with the drummer. But this guy hits hard and has loud drums . . . Everyone is going through the PA, though the guitar is louder than the PA, much to the curiosity of all - how can a 100w instrument amp be louder than a 4000w PA?! Mark

Hi, I've been doing up some stage plan mock-ups for a new pub covers band. It's a 5 piece (guitar-playing singer, singing guitarist, singing keyboard player, singing bassist, drummer) and it's clear that things are gonna by pretty tight for the band in the typical pubs we'll be playing. So this got me thinking about how compact a bass amp I could get away with. I've been aiming for an amp of somewhere around 300w - 450w and a 4x10 cab, something like the Peavey Tour 450 & 410 or Warwick 3.3 & WCA410 Pro. My guitarist has the obligatory 100w Marshall valve amp + 4x12 and loves it - I wouldn't even ask him to downsize (even though there are plenty of reasons he should), and he loves being LOUD (what's that I hear you say? "A loud guitarist? Surely not?!" Yes, it's true . . .). The singer will be using a 100w solid state 2x12 Marshall combo, which is also very loud. Drummer is also loud. My main concern is the big picture - I want the punters to get a well balanced mix out front. I don't want the guitar amps to be so loud as to bleed over the PA sound - I'm sure y'all know that's bad. But I also want the band to be able to hear themselves, and each other, on stage, which is where my question comes in. Given the potential for very loud on-stage guitar & drum volumes, should I stick with the amp/cab option (for the safety net aspect) or would I get away with a neat 2x10 combo of 300w or so (Marshall, Nemesis, GK, Laney, Kustom - there are plenty to choose from)? My amp will be mainly for on-stage monitoring (for the whole band as well as myself). Thanks for any replies, Mark

[quote name='bnt' post='188528' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:21 PM']What's weird is that the only place I've actually seen them on sale is here: Walton's, a.k.a. the SX Emporium... [b][i]and I bought mine from Germany[/i].[/b] Walton's want(ed) over €800 for a TWB43, while mine was €420 + shipping. [/quote] Just came back to this thread tonight. I got mine in Vegas, when they were $600. A mate brought it back for me from a leisure trip, so no shipping cost. I'm going to get to the gold knobs in the next week or two. I'm also doing the intonation/neck-relief/action soon too - SamAsh hadn't done too good a job from the start. I don't play mine half as much as I'd like to, so this is my year of the Tune . . . Mark

[quote name='JonnyM' post='696502' date='Dec 30 2009, 05:28 PM']One point: the B9.1 has a built-in tuner, so you won't need an external one. You can probably get rid of the VXL too [/quote] My ME-50B had a built in "tuner" too. So does my rhythm guitarist's GT-8. Neither was any real use. Can the B9.1ut's built-in tuner really compare to something like my DT-10 or a TU-2? And I take it from your [s]gushing[/s] enthusing about the DI ( ) that it'd be a useable alternative to my VXL Bass Attack? Mark

[quote name='JonnyM' post='695950' date='Dec 29 2009, 10:05 PM']The main reason though, was playing live was a pain, [b][i]having to tweak pedals between and sometimes during songs - and not always getting it right either![/i][/b] Also, people said it looked weird that I kept "disappearing" - ie bending down to do "something". (Not being musos, they didn't know exactly what I was doing, but the observation was that it detracted from the performance somewhat).[/quote] The bit in bold italics is the bit that I'm concerned with. I guess maybe it comes down to what you're doing with any effects you're using - for a live covers band, a good MFX may be more apropriate. For a guy at home or in a studio, experimenting and trying to perfectly nail that unusual tone he has in his head, maybe separates are the way to go. If I bought all the pedals I now think I might need, the total cost would be over €1000 (though I already have the DT-10 & VXL) . . . DT-10 - €100 Weeping Demon - €130 Bass Blogger - €70 MicroPOG - €190 Sweeper - €130 #1 Echo - €70 Bass Xciter - €120 Punch Factory - €120 VXL Bass Attack - €100 I've been excited about the prospect of using separate pedals, but wary of the cost and the continuous tweaking that'd be involved. IMO, this . . . looks cooler than this . . . But I guess how your pedalboard looks is less important than how suitable your FX set-up is for your application. The B9.1ut is €320 - that's €600 or so cheaper than if I chose separates. Or in other words, €130 shy of the price of a new Peavey amp/cab set-up . . . JohnnyM - do you use the B9.1ut's DI live? If yes, how do you find it? What else have you used to compare it with? Pity Zoom didn't make the bass MFX in black like the guitar ones - the red is gick. Keep the opinions coming guys - this is good. Mark

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='652792' date='Nov 12 2009, 04:48 PM']Hi, We all know the advantages and drawbacks of both a separate pedals set-up and a single multi-FX unit, so who's used one set-up before and changed to the other, and what are your comments/thoughts? Why did you change? Can you see yourself changing back? I'm particularly interested from a playing live perspective - the domain of the multi-FX unit, IMO. I'm on the brink of buying separates, after having used an ME-50B live for a couple of years, but for the combined price of the pedals I'm looking at, a multi-FX is a cleaner, simpler solution for live work, not to mention cheaper than separates. For my part, [b][i]I need two distortions, chorus, wah and compressor[/i][/b]. I'm not really interested in many other FX. I already have a Hartke VXL BAss Attack, so if I spend an average of €120 per pedal, that's nearly €500 on pedals . . . Thanks for any replies, Mark[/quote] Hmmm . . . Now we may be covering Pearl Jam's Jeremy, so a MicroPOG could be on the cards (reasonably priced octave-up), and one by Kings of Leon that I'm sure a delay could do what's needed, though I suspect it's reverb (or reverb & delay), but I'm not buying a reverb for one song. A MicroPOG could be used often enough, as could a delay, so I could accept buying them. Is a MFX looking more cost efficient & neater now? Hmmm . . . Mark

[quote name='cheddatom' post='690614' date='Dec 21 2009, 01:35 PM']chaining two OD pedals together won't necessarily mean an increase in volume, as one pedal drives the next to distort more. [b][i]More distorted doesn't mean more loud[/i][/b]. It might not be the sound you're after though.[/quote] But that's the crux of the problem with the VXL Bass Attack, isn't it? When you dial in lots of distortion, it [i]is[/i] louder, and you have no way of controlling the level balance between Harmonics ON & Harmonics OFF. Or am I missing something? Mark

I bet Cliff put far less effort & thought into his tone than many fans do . . . I agree that unless you're in a full-on 5-nights-a-week tribute Metallica act, and wear your flares and have the hair & tache, "close enough is good enough". Unless . . . you're a major fan and have OCD for replicating his tone in your living room/bedroom , then fire on and good luck - past that, I'm of no help to you. Well, I could add that even if you had the exact same gear, you'd still be up against not being in the same room, not knowing the state of repair of his gear, or how old his strings were, having different playing style, not knowing his settings on his bass/pedals/amp . . . Rather than seek the exact method of how an artist got their tone, maybe we'd be better off trying to understand what controls on a bass/effect pedal/amp do what - I reckon that'd enable us to make a good stab at achieving any artist's tone. In fairness though, I suppose it's inevitable that on the journey to learn how to achieve Cliff's tone, you'll learn some of all that anyway. Mark DANG Hammy! Same post, less words . . .

[quote name='Steve_nottm' post='312935' date='Oct 23 2008, 12:10 PM']9 month old Golf R32, so no...... much as I like basses, and would happily spend more and build up a collection I can't see them being worth more than my car. Like someone else said, there are 2 things I think it's worth spending money on as a "passion". Cars and Basses. Unfortunately a nice car costs more than a nice bass so the balance will probably always be on the car side. [i][b]Basses are probably the 2nd most valuable asset though (house excluded). worth more than PCs, cameras etc[/b][/i][/quote] The bit in bold italics is kinda where my current concern lies: Of all the drains on our disposable cash, where does bass gear rank in your spends? I have loads of interests - playing bass in a band, playing acoustic guitar at home, fishing, watching movies/playing video games/listening to music, scuba diving, motorbikes . . . With three kids, the bikes & diving went out the window - I'll start again when they don't depend on me anymore or I win the lotto. But I still partake in all the rest. Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, my bass gear, modest as it is, is certainly worth more than my current car. But were I to replace my car, and were I to obtain all the bass gear I'm gassing for, I reckon the bass gear would still still be worth more. I'm not really pushed about my car - a reliable & comfy 5-10 year old Jap is all I want. My living room AV set-up cost around €5000, kithen AV maybe €2000, camera/camcorder/computer stuff maybe €2000, fishing gear around €1500, acoustic guitar was €350 or so. I reckon if I had all the bass gear I currently want, that'd come to about €3200, including the €1500 or so I've already spent. Thinking about all this, it seems that that the amounts I've spent on my "stuff" does roughly reflect the stuff's place in my "list of importance" Aside from your cars, where does your bass gear fit in on the scale of what you spend your cash on? Mark

Been teasing out the thoery of this in my head. I don't think it'll work too well. Using a separate, different OD pedal, engaging it would bring into play its level control (as well as its drive/tone/whatever control), allowing adjustment to balance the signal level between engaged and bypassed. Using a 2nd VXL, there is (as discussed) no level control associated with the Harmonics function, [i]preventing[/i] any adjustment to balance the signal level between engaged and bypassed. After reaching these thoeretical deductions, it seems obvious that two VXLs would simply double the problem of having little control over the signal-level between the Harmonics ON & OFF states. Back to the Bass Blogger, I think . . . At least the pedalboard could be a little smaller . . . Mark

How ironic . . . Check out 3:44. It's a guitar, I know, but you could be onto something, Gnasher . . . [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vMfJXG-F6A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vMfJXG-F6A[/url] Mark

Chill Alun - I won't be buying anything till maybe March, so whenever you get to it is fine. Mark

If I wanted to make my normal (5/4 string) bass sound like Pearl Jam's Jeremy (Ament played a 12-string on it), is the POG2 the only pedal that could do it? AFAIK, 12-string basses are tuned NOTE/+1 OCTAVE/+1 OCTAVE? The POG2 would give NOTE/+1 OCTAVE/+2 OCTAVE, so not quite the same, but I'm guessing it'd sound pretty close? Thanks, Mark

[quote name='JTUK' post='684925' date='Dec 15 2009, 10:29 AM']Not sure you are really serious about 1 gig being a decent testing ground for durability against 100... but if you are, then fine. As I said before, time will tell whether these have staying power but [b][i]it makes no difference to me anyway[/i][/b]. I wouldn't be in the market. [b][i]I have no axe to grind as such[/i], [/b]I am just wary of the hype/enthusiasm here. If it works for the people who buy them, then good on all concerned.[/quote] With respect JTUK, you do seem to pop up with a "hold on there folks" wherever Barefaced is mentioned, so for a guy that claims it makes no difference, you could conceiveably be perceived as actually having an opinion one (obvious) side of the fence. Not trying to cause friction - just making an observation. Personally, Alex's Big One is his most attractive cab to me, but the logistics of even trying one, let alone buying one, are pretty awkward - I'm in Dublin. And TBH, £675 is getting on for what I can stretch to for both amp & cab, so I'm not really in that market either. Mark

This is pretty cheap: [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm[/url] There's a few more more expensive ones on there, too: [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/cat.html?gf=guitar_and_bass_power_supplies&oa=prd"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/cat.html?gf=guita...lies&oa=prd[/url] Mark

Absolutely not! If you value what you need to power, get the right voltage PSU. Perhaps cameras are more fragile than effects pedals, but I used an adjustable-voltage generic PSU to charge my wide's Fuji digital camera batteries. The Fuji PSU was something like 5.5v (and very expensive) and the closest the generic PSU had was either 4.5v or 6v. I don't remember which, but only one worked, but not for long - it fried something in the camera, which was out of warranty, so I just had to accept it . . . Do the right thing - get a 9v PSU. Mark

No such thing as a light power amp . . . Our PA rack is heavy - 1 x JBL MPA750 (25kg), 2 x Yamaha P5000S (12kg each), plus some other lighter units, but suffice it to say that at nearly 60kg, it's [b]HEAVY[/b]. 12kg is probly as light as power amps go, and the P5000S that we use is a great amp - never gets hot & dead reliable. Check one out. Mark

[quote name='ped' post='684457' date='Dec 14 2009, 08:35 PM']Can you keep your negotiations to yourselves please chaps. ped[/quote] Exactly what I was thinking as I've been reading through this. Honest review of the product, honourable response from the supplier - no need for the full laundry to see light here. Shame one example of a product will inevitably become a major point of attention on BC, and a big potential hurdle for the future for Alex. If others on here like their Barefaced products, now would be a good time to chime in, but to keep it all balanced, those with misgivings about their Barefaced product should also speak up. Hope a mutually agreeable resolution is reached soon. Good luck to both parties. Mark

:blush: Guess I should have read every post . . . Beautiful rig, Dubs. How's it all hooked up? Is the power amp bridged? Mark

[quote name='Dubs' post='684206' date='Dec 14 2009, 05:27 PM']:brow:[/quote] What's that mean? You know something we don't? Mark

[quote name='wizbat' post='684245' date='Dec 14 2009, 05:53 PM']I think it,s quite normal to use two or more distortion/overdrive pedals if you want varying sounds that involve that effect, I use a sansamp GT2 and a EHX big muff, the GT2 for a gritty overdrive and the muff for a fat fuzzy sound.[/quote] [i]I think it,s quite normal to use two or more distortion/overdrive pedals if you want varying sounds that involve that effect, I use a sansamp GT2 and a EHX big muff, the GT2 for a gritty overdrive and the muff for a fat fuzzy sound.[/i] I'll be using two OD/distortion/fuzz pedals for sure - that much I know. My "need-to-know" at this time is how feasible it'll be with two VXL Bass Attacks (as opposed to two different pedals), given their inherent lack of control over the output level when the Harmonics is heavily boosted. Alun, I mostly use my Yamaha BB605 9v active 5-string (D'Addario ProSteels), but also occasionally my Squier VMJ passive fretless 4-string (D'Addario roundwounds). Thanks, Mark

[quote name='Alun' post='684181' date='Dec 14 2009, 05:00 PM']Sounds Ok to me ( in fact I'll try it if I get chance as I do have two VXLs - long story!), only concern I might have is adding noise as they can be a little hissy at times. I'm sure with some tinkering, it should be fine Cheers Alun[/quote] Now we're talking! Can't say how much I'd apreciate your comments after you've tried it. Personally, I've only had hiss when the Brite control is up high with high Harmonics & Mix when the Harmonics is ON, but the distorted sound is already noisy then, so hiss don't bother me. My main curiosity is how the following scenarios will affect the overall level, specifically can tweaking the level outputs maintain consistent overall level? 1. Both VXL Harmonics OFF 2. VXL 1 (mild grit) ON, VXL 2 (heavy dirt) OFF 3. VXL 1 (mild grit) OFF, VXL 2 (heavy dirt) ON 4. Both VXL Harmonics ON I wonder how different running 2 VXLs would be to running one VXL and a different OD/fuzz pedal? Both will have their own level control, so am I unnecessarily concerned? Look forward to your findings, Alun . . . Mark