Phaedrus

Hi, I guess the most common cables I see on guy's FX boards are those 6-in-a-pack multi-coloured ones. I'm sure they do the job, but would spending a little more be worth it? Thomann & MusicStore seem to carry mostly Klotz, Cordial, Monster & Planet Waves (for pretty hefty prices), along with the cheap & cheerful own-brand stuff. If the connectors in the PW DIY kit weren't so fat, I'd consider those, but even before I have my new board & some pedals, I think I want slimmer/neater connectors. I have Klotz TM Stevens instrument cables, but TBH, they fail way too easy, so I don't want those. I like the look of some of Ibanez's patch cables (not an obvious player in the cable market?) - have any of you guys come across them anywhere online? No local dealers carry them. [url="http://www.ibanez.co.jp/world/country/frame_uk.html"]http://www.ibanez.co.jp/world/country/frame_uk.html[/url] Thanks, Mark

Boss pedals look boring to me. I like the look of most of MXR & EHX pedals. I like the look of some of the new Seymour Duncan pedals too: [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/stompboxes/"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/stompboxes/[/url] Best looking pedal for me is my Hartke VXL Bass Attack - it looks mean and it's a great unit. [url="http://en.woodbrass.com/images/woodbrass/BASSATTACK.JPG"]http://en.woodbrass.com/images/woodbrass/BASSATTACK.JPG[/url] Mark

Yeah, I heard the jacks & footswitch don't hold up too well to repeat action. The way I plan to use compression would mean it'd be connected into my set-up just once and switched on just once (and left permanently on), so that may not be an issue for me. The Carl Martin Compressor is €222 - almost double the PF price. I can't find a description or picture anywhere online that confirms it has an XLR out, but I don't want to spend that much money on a comp - there are plenty around €100 - €150 out there. I do plan to use a Bass Xciter too (really like what my guitarist's is doing for me now), which also has an XLR DI out, so I wonder if I could go bass -> tuner -> comp -> Bass Exciter -> DI to PA [i]AND[/i] 1/4" jack to FX chain? Would it be ok to place the BE there? It's effectively an EQ, isn't it? That'd open up a few options for me. Mark

Have a pic from a few weeks back, before I bought my Ibanez Weeping Demon from OldGit (top man to deal with - can't wait till he's selling something else I want . . .). I was using my guitarist's Morley guitar wah - he plays bass in a Metallica tribute band and has some good gear. Mark

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='761041' date='Mar 1 2010, 06:45 PM']Pitch shifting (octavers)> distortion > filters (incl. wahs) > modulation (phaser, chorus etc.) > time based (delay, reverb echo etc.)[/quote] This seems to be the most common order I've seen suggested both on here and on TB, and it's the order I'm using now and will be using once I've got everything I want, with the exception of my wah going before my distortion. On compressors, I'm still not 100% sure whether I want a comp at the end or up front, and I'd be very interested to hear opinions/experiences. I'd imagine up front would even out playing foibles, but would still allow the dynamics of every following pedal to happen as intended. And maybe at the end would still even out playing foibles, but could also reduce the dynamics of the preceding pedals, possibly (probably?) undoing or diminishing any level-boosting. Mark

Hi, I've been planning to get one of these for a while, but only got around to trying one today. I'd read plenty about it being quite subtle and not really having the capacity to really squash the sound, but I initially wondered if the one I was trying was faulty, so subtle was its effect on the sound. With a little tweaking, I did notice significant difference over the unprocessed tone. My primary requirement for a compressor is to even out my average playing ( 95% fingerstyle) - I'm not really looking for a compressor as an effect, per se, so the Punch Factory could work, but I can't help feeling I may sometime want more than it can achieve. One of the strongest sell points for the PF for me is its DI out - I plan to run one clean signal and one effected signal to the PA (as I've posted elsewhere (sorry ), I'd be running bass -> tuner -> Punch Factory XLR DI -> PA mixer [i]AND[/i] PF 1/4" jack -> other FX -> Hartke VXL DI -> PA mixer [i]AND[/i] VXL 1/4" jack -> amp), and the PF could achieve this. Do you guys know of any other compressor pedal that could achieve what I'm talking about? I guess it'd need an XLR DI out as well as a 1/4" out . . . Mark

[quote name='bass5' post='760189' date='Feb 28 2010, 09:42 PM'][b][i]When you play in a band your singer and your drummer need to rely on your fundamental backbone, not your echo, chorus flairs, or wah wah sweeps, no Sir[/i].[/b][/quote] 100% agree. But when the bass part of a song we're covering has a particular tone, I want to nail it. I don't really care (though it would be nice to have it apreciated) if Joe Public doesn't even realise that I have the original bass sound down. Think of the very middly chorused bass tone in Don't Stop Believing. To this end, when I have the cash, I'll be running bass -> tuner -> Punch Factory. From the Punch Factory's XLR out, I'll be sending a clean DI to the PA, and from its 1/4" jack, the signal will continue on into the rest of my FX, ending with my Hartke VXL, where its XLR out will send an effected signal to the PA, and its 1/4" jack will go straight into my amp. I'll have just my effected ton on stage, but both clean and effected signal in the PA. Wayhayyy! Thanks for your replies - it's good to get ideas from folk. I'll take a pic of my current set-up at rehearsal tomorrow night. Here's my plan for the future: Mark

Hi, I guess some folk would have more pedals than they commonly use, with a couple they very rarely use. What are the effects you do actually use regularly? Why did you get those pedals? Was it to achieve a particular sound you needed for a cover? Was it to try out something new? Do you think there are some core effects most bass players will need, or should have? My thinking (as a bassist in a rock covers band) is that the essential effects are compressor (not strictly an effect, I know), some sort of overdrive or distortion, chorus, and some sort of EQ. Then maybe also an octaver and a delay. I'm currently using a mish-mosh of my own and my guitarist's pedals - tuner -> wah -> -> distortion -> chorus -> EQ -> DI (which is also an overdrive & EQ). My own (all-owned-by-me) set-up will be more or less the same, albeit with different models of pedal. Mark

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='750470' date='Feb 19 2010, 04:01 AM']Using your analogy though, would you use a 4x4 if you only needed to do the school run or transport yourself without any gear that wouldn't fit in an average car? I guess the car analogy is a good one though since people do buy sports cars and 4x4s to do the shopping and pick up their kids even just for the image.[/quote] No, I wouldn't. If I was only ever going to play with PA support, I'd just DI and make sure the PA could supply my own monitor with enough bass for the stage. I might use a small combo. And in truth, the vast majority of live situations I'll probaly be in will be using our full PA, but another factor to consier is the PA failing - at least with a bigger amp, we could still probably pull off the gig, using our backline for the instruments and our active monitors for the vocals. I'm really only applying some concession to bass amps with this - I still see 100w 4x12" valve guitar half-stacks as way OTT for pub gigs. I could condone a 2x12" combo (less speakers = lower loudness for a given gain level, IIUC?), which could still probably pull off a "PA-fail" scenario. FWIW, we now have an 11 year-old Alhambra & a 15 year-old Corolla estate - either can do the school runs or the load-lugging, but I'm back to trapsing through a few fields to get to the lakes . . . Mark

[quote name='ironside1966' post='749194' date='Feb 18 2010, 12:50 AM'][b][i]Getting a good sound is down to the band, first you need good clean arrangements so that the instruments are allowed their own space and are not cluttered by every one competing for the same frequencies. Next the sound of the individual instruments needs to work well together, when all the band members want a big larger than life sound for their own instruments the band generally sound a mess, good bad or no sound engineer.[/i][/b] The bass carries so you can hear the bass end in a crowded room long after the mid and top end is gone and the bass is generally louder further away from the speaker. No one needs to be louder than the quietist instrument Lastly wattage is virtually meaningless as there a two many variables, eg, the efficiency of the amp and speaker IMHO the super stack is the equivalent of having a 4 by 4 for a townies school run.[/quote] Case in point: I worked hard to nail the bass line for Alanis Morissette's You Oughta Know for rehearsal last Tuesday. After we jammed it, the guitarist said the song was rocking. The new girl singer said "nice bassline, Mark! I couldn't hear it, but your hands were flying round the place!" Neither could I. What was the point in me learning any of the fills, when all that could be heard was that I was in tune - I may as well have just played the F# without any fills. When even just one band member's own personal wants obscure their regard for the big picture, everyone else may just head home. BTW, I've owned two 4x4s, and loved them both, and would love to have another one again. And while we did use the second one for the school runs, I also used it to hump band gear round in, and to get me to places where I fish that would otherwise mean long awkward walks. I couldn't (can't) afford to run a separate normal car for the school run [i]and[/i] a 4x4 for the fishing/load-lugging. So rather than have a normal car that could only cover one of my requirements, I had a 4x4 that could cover both. This analogy works pretty well within the bass amp/PA context - more on tap than will likely ever be needed is far more sensible than less on tap than could sometime be needed. Just because a 4x4 can drive off-road doesn't mean we have to copy Marge in her Canyonero every morning . . . Just because we have a 700w 4x10 rig, doesn't mean we have to play at 11 all the time . . . Mark

With best intentions to nail his fills where they occur, it became clear pretty quick while learning this song that that just wouldn't be happening. There are some parts of the verse bassline towards the second half of the song where I will make an effort to string the line together as it occurs on the song - it's just great fun. I've been placing my focus pretty heavily on this song, meaning that the other 5 learners for tomorrow night have lagged behind. Gotta get stuck in tomorrow . . . I've never really gotten too excited about Flea. I've always liked some of his lines - Pretty Little Ditty & Aeroplane - and we have gigged some RHCP songs in our set over the years, and I do recognise his talent, but it wasn't until I started to disect You Oughta Know that I actually got excited about him. Great funky groovy line that most amateur guys could passably cover. Mark

[quote name='bigjohn' post='745720' date='Feb 15 2010, 12:02 PM']I agree (although there's 200w and 200w - I've played pub gigs easily with 100w amps before with no PA support - but then struggled with 250w amps in the same venue). And I don't see how playing a pub with a PA capable of mixing bass / guitar(s) vocals well enough and loud enough to play live drums to is any less overkill than turning up with a good loud bass amp and letting the PA take care of vocals. If you [i]only ever[/i] play venues that have a decent in-house PA, I can see where it would make sense to have an amp that was purely for monitoring. But even then... I'd rather have the option.[/quote] Loud bass, when everything else isn't loud is bass overkill. Loud PA, when everything is balanced in the mix can be overkill for sure, but if the FOH mix is too loud, it can be lowered, retaining the balanced mix - having everything in the FOH mix facilitates greater control (typically by just one person, who usually knows what they're doing and usually has an idea of what a balanced FOH mix entails), whereas having just vocals in the PA leaves balancing the mix that the punter hears at the whim of the individual band members. And that can work just fine - I've seen it work just fine. But my own preference is for the greater control that everything going through the PA facilitates. I agree with having a higher-powered bass amp and more speakers to allow for most situations. BTW, I also apply that idiom to our PA - more power on tap means cleaner gain structure and more headroom before signal degradation/feedback. I don't think we ever have or ever will push our PA to the maximum of what it's capable of, but that headroom is confidence-inspiring and comforting. Mark

[quote name='WWRRSS' post='745296' date='Feb 14 2010, 09:23 PM']Nah, I'm not saying that, I'm just speaking for [b][i]my own quest to be as loud and horrible sounding as possible, regardless of the size of room i'm in etc[/i].[/b] Plus I try not to need the bands guitars/basses etc though the PA, we have it all sorted so the soundman only has to put the vocals loud enough.[/quote] Respectfully, you wouldn't make it past your first audition with my band. A band is a team with a common goal. Or at least it should be. I certainly wouldn't want to endure a gig where one (or more) band members simply want to be as loud as possible. Can anyone really be so blind or selfish to behave like that in a band? As mentioned, those guys won't spend much time in bands. [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='745411' date='Feb 14 2010, 11:55 PM']It's not just the feedback, it's that a sound engineer's main job is to control the levels, it's impossible to do that if you can't turn down an instrument because the amp's up so loud that even with the channel muted it's overpowering. I've been pretty lucky with guitarists in my bands but I've played with some real twits of bands at gigs. They come along with their 100w marshall stack then moan because they can't crank it to get the tone. Most haven't even heard of an attenuator. One guitarist in one of my bands had a TSL100 but at least he realise he couldn't crank it. It didn't sound great but it kept engineers happy.[/quote] It's a shame, but it's a fact, that only the more experienced (and usually older) musicians are the ones arriving to a gig with 50w or even 30w 1x12" valve guitar combos and 200w 2x10 bass combos. It's spending time battling with on-stage volume that eventually teaches that the sound engineer was right - the quiter the band is on stage, the better the FOH sound will be. A 100w valve guitar amp & 4x12" cab is louder than even large PA rigs by the time it's been cranked to get "the tone" (unfortunately, because of the dispersion pattern of the typical 4x12" cab, it's only the punters directly in front of those cabs that hear it - folks either side of it hear far reduced volume. PA speakers typically (and of necessity) have much wider dispersion patterns, so more punters get to hear what they should be hearing). And as has been said, what can the sound engineer do about the guitar's volume level when he's already got that channel muted? I've posted more than a couple of times on this subject, and had hoped that a 200w 2x10" combo would suffice in my band - we have a 4000w PA that everything goes through. But I've come to decide that I'll get an amp of 400w or so and either a 4x10" cab or two 2x10"s. Why? Headroom. I want clean power on tap. If I never roll the volume past 2, so be it - I'll be content & confident that I have more on tap than I'll ever need, without needing to crank my volume in order to get "my tone", and without the risk of my sound breaking up, or something getting damaged. The idea that the quiter the band is on stage the better things are out front goes against possibly the very reason we took up bass in the first place - to move air, to be thunderous, to [i]feel[/i] the sound . . . But if you use a PA, that's the PA's job - all the band's amps are simply stage monitors, and shouldn't interfere with the FOH soundspace. So long as everyone in the band can comfortably hear themselves and each other, that's as loud as you need to be: loud as necessary, quiet as possible. Typically everyone needs to be heard over drums (or more specifically, cymbals), and then 100w valve 4x12" half-stacks. If your drummer can master playing dynamically, or is willing to experiment with damping, or even using smaller/thinner (read "quiter") cymbals, you're on the right road. And if your guitarist is willing to try a 50w 1x12" valve combo, specially if it's on an angled-up stand, pointing at his own head, you're in heaven. We still need to feel the music, but there's a point where you have to realise that if you want to be called back to play a venue again, or if you hope that a bride- or groom-to-be will pop out of the crowd and ask you to play at their wedding, you need to comprimise - you sacrifice a little of what you want most out of it all, but gain doing it more often and for longer. The crux of the whole answer to this is what level of conscientious responsibility a band member has - what are their priorities when they play with their band? Do they place more importance on the big picture, or on what they want for themselves? Mark

I reckon I've got the groove/feel ok, and I'm even happy I have most of the fills down, though I may have to improv where I play them . . . - it was just that burpy tone I wasn't sure how to achieve. Mark

Not a bass prob, but I played a little keyboard in my last band. When we did The Killers' When You Were Young, I played the part in the middle ("they say the devil's water . . .") on keys. We were using a cheapo keyboard that caused a lot of hum, so I used to have to mute that channel on the PA when the it wasn't being played (I ran the PA from the stage). I could play the part no prob - never had an issue at all in rehearsals, as you might imagine. First time we gigged it, the whole band dropped out, the singer started his line, I hit the keys and - silence! I hadn't unmuted the channel on the mixer. I quickly hit the mute button and turned back to the keyboard, but drew a blank on what chord I should be playing, so I had to hit a couple of wrong ones before I landed on the correct (last) chord in the sequence. Remember Derek Smalls when he finally got out of his pod at the end of Rock 'n' Roll Creation? Forever after, I could be relied on to muck it up, so we dropped it . . . Mark

Hmmm . . . Might just try it on my VMJ, though TBH, it's already a bit of a handful on my BB605. My Tascam CD-BT is earning its keep on this song fo sho . . . Yep, a fun bass showboater - hope the feckers in my band apreciate the work a line like that involves. I actually have my tone (with headphones & CD-BT) pretty close, so I'm sure I'll get it when we rehearse amplified on Tuesday. Thanks all, Mark

Hi, I though I posted this last night, but I can't see it anywhere. Probly closed BC down while in the preview page . . d'oh! So, even though I don't have Flea's fingers and GK rig, I'm sure I'll still be able to get something similar to his tone on Alanis' You Oughta Know. I'm guessing it's on the back pick-up, bass rolled off & mids boosted, with plenty of damping with the left & right hand fingers? Our new girl singer is pretty good, and I know the rest of the band will have nailed their parts for this, so any help is apreciated . . . Thanks, Mark

Drummer from my old band has taken up bass, and is using a TE BLX80 with one of our JBL JRX118S 1x18" subs as an extension cab. I've only seen the set-up in use at one gig, and TBH, he had tone & volume I'd kill for. Cheap 20 year-old Kramer bass & a Boss drum machine as his effects unit. Mish-mosh rig, but very effective . . . Mark

How about this? [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm[/url] Mark

Started looking at some 2x10 cabs, and those that caught my eye were ones that are sort of wedge shaped, where they can be tilted back to point up at the player. It seems that the GK RBX210 can be stacked vertically, and are 8ohms each. That'd be a pretty neat stack - small footprint, could be stuffed further into a corner if necessary, and if I was concerned with aesthetics, a pretty good looking stack, too . . . And although it's best to keep all the speakers together, the option to split the two cabs to provide bass on both sides of the stage could be useful. At €355 each from MusicStore, starting off with just one of these and a GK amp might be interesting. I've never really considered GK, though I do know their mid & higher priced stuff (if not the Backline range) is well respected. I'll read up on the 400RB & 700RB amps later today. I gather they're inherently pretty clean and modern sounding, rather than warm & vintagey? Mark

Two TVX210s did dawn on me, but there seems to be only a 4ohm version, making running two not workable. Why on earth did they only make a 4ohm version of the smallest cab in the range?! The cab that's most likely to be paired with another cab . . . The Tour 210 cab is €600, so not an option. Might look at other 8ohm 2x10 cabs, but then it's two lifts, rather than one. Thanks, Mark

I wish I could afford a light 4x10 cab, but I simply can't. The cheapest "light" (30kg) 4x10 that I've come across is Hartke's AK410, at €500. Given that I'm settled on a Tour 450 amp, I'd like to pair it with a Tour 410, but that's way outta range, so the TVX 410 is the other Peavey option. A €330, 46.6kg option . . . So with limited funds, and 2[sup]nd[/sup] hand gear not being appealing or even viable in my locale, I wonder if putting castors on a TVX 410 would remove it from the "this-is-a-fine-cab-but-I-have-to-get-rid-of-it-cos-it's-just-too-heavy" category to the "sure-it's-heavy-but-I-like-the-tone-and-with-the-castors-fitted-it's-a-breeze-to-load-in-and-out" category? Thanks, Mark

Anyone know how different the Morley Dual Bass Wah PBA-2 sounds to the TM Stevens Bass Wah? Mark