GreeneKing

Just to paint an accurate picture of ‘the band’. For the past couple of years we’ve been a bunch of guys meeting up once a month to work on some covers purely for our own entertainment. No ambitions of gigging. Ive been honest in that I’m up for it but failing that it’s a way to improve my musicianship and give myself a focus. 
This upcoming gig may well be a one off. If we can sort things out it may lead to more gigs. It may even all fall apart. Opportunities are limited so I hope not. 

4 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

 

Meeting up for a jam is fine if that is what you have signed up for, with my current band if we had no gig there would be no point to meet up, although the guitarist often tried to force a practice because he viewed it as him practicing, which is not what it is about. Learn the song, get good at it, then practice it with the band.

 

Absolutely 

I’ve just bought, on impulse a short scale bass. So this needs to be sold. 
 

Reduced to £949. I understand that shipping is an issue but if you send me a hard case I’ll ship for that price. 
 

This is to me a bit of a bargain. 

5 hours ago, la bam said:

Just let everyone know that in order for it to work, the drummer brings everyone in and out of parts.

 

That way, the improv bobbins hes trying wont work, and the drummer will have a better idea of structure, bars, and feel of the song, but if a solo (where the bass doesnt change) is allowed to continue, you can play along happily until the drummer gives cues in his playing to bring you all back in.

 

It should never be a guitarist, especially a guitarist who clearly doesnt listen to whatever anyone else is playing, that is in control of the structure of the songs imo.

 

Then, hopefully, that will force him to turn down as he'll have to be able to hear everyone else to know where his cues are.

In my first band I generally kept the song structure and the rest of the guys were okay with that. Expected it even. 

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Hmmm.

 

If he's top loud, and you can still be heard clearly, doesn't that mean you are too loud as well?

Not necessarily. I don’t think it’s just a volume thing. I could be loud and still be lost in the mix. I’d describe the bass as focussed and loud enough considering the need to be heard alongside the lead. If he turned down a little then so could I. I’m not in a competition but sometimes I can’t hear the bass clearly when I’m in front of my amp. 
 

It’s almost as if he doesn’t understand the role of or need for a bass. 

8 minutes ago, martthebass said:

It seems to me that, to an extent, the band isn't really focused on being a 'performing' band.  The Rhythm guitarist and Lead come to that, are acting more as if it's a bit of a 'jammimg' band or social meet up kind of thing?  Maybe your objectives for the band and their's don't align?  To be honest, any band that has been rehearsing for going on 2 years without a gig says to me that gigging is not their priority. 

Spot on Mart. We were just that until I found us a gig. The lead did the singing before and now his bro is onboard for the gig. The drummer gigs anyway and the Rhythm isn't so keen. I'm probably the keenest to perform in front of an audience. It's bound to produce stress but I see that as a positive. People who just meet up for a jam can be quite selfish and focussed on their own stuff methinks.

3 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

I think it's more that he's not listening to the band at all. If he was listening to the music, he most likely wouldn't be missing bars as it would be obvious where he is within the framework of the song. If anything, don't go louder to hear yourself, go quieter until he realises he needs to come down to meet the volume of the rest of the band. He needs to learn to listen to other instruments. What is the rhythm guitarist doing when he drops bars? He's in the same boat as you.

 

 

The Rhythm guitarist is low key and can hardly be heard a lot of the time. He's the sort of guy that likes to turn up and take part and doesn't want to 'rock the boat'. He has mentioned that he finds it annoying but as the bassist I seem to be more focussed on song structure than everyone else. There's a bit of 'does it really matter' attitude going on. When I'm having to sort out what I'm playing and where we are mid bar then yes, to me it matters. It sounds bad and I'm the one that stands out as getting it wrong to anyone listening.

14 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

As mentioned earlier by @Ricky 4000, if the guitar is too loud, I’d be tempted to turn my volume down. I’ve got one of those sound level apps on my phone and last time our guitarist was getting too loud, I started getting progressively quieter until he finally noticed and asked me to turn up. When I pointed out that the volume in the room was still over 120dB with basically just him and the drummer playing and maybe we should look at dropping levels rather than adding more, he finally got the point and wound it back.

 

If you’re lost in the mix, try changing your EQ a bit rather than adding volume? Boost the mids and cut back the lows and see if that helps.

And if the guitar cuts a solo short, make sure you do the full “glare across and slow head shake” look so it’s clear to anyone watching that it was him that just screwed up.

 

 

 

 

My bass cuts through into the mix really well despite the lead being too loud. I really think that if I turned my bass down he wouldn’t notice, so ‘lost in the sauce’ is he. Even with only one 8ohm cab my GK Legend 800 is operating with the volume down around 2 of 10. 
 

When he expresses delight at how good a song went he has no idea that I spent a couple of bars not playing due to him spontaneously modifying the song structure. 
 

I think that the root of the problem is him focussing on just lead with the volume meaning it overwrites the band. 

17 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

I was going to say similar.  The Inevitable Teaspoons are 5 lovely, humble, even tempered chaps (well, 4 and me ) and it's a pretty harmonious scene.  The biggest "argument" we've had recently is about capitalisation of track names on the cover of our soon to be released album.  Of course there's a downside to all this peace, love and harmony - things don't move very fast because everything happens by concensus and there's a lot of niceness inertia.  That's the only problem with it - sometimes you need a bit of ego to get stuff done.  We are TERRIBLE at self promotion because of all being doubtful of our own merits - we know we're good at what we do, we're just terrible at saying it out loud for fear of seeming gauche.

 

As for Nine Lives, the covers band, it's a pretty relaxed scene - the guitarist is good at getting gigs so must have the front to tell people how good we (think we) are, but he's a good guy who I think needs to turn up sometimes (!).  We all have veto rights on song choices but rarely use them, everyone mucks in for loading in/setting up/loading out, we have a laugh, drink only water during the gig (rock and roll! but also, driving - lot of rural gigs) so no people being too pished to perform.  I really have landed on my feet.

 

If I can manage this in the semi-rural rugged outpost of civilisation that is the NE of Scotland, then I'm sure you can find some good people too, Peter.  You've just been unlucky.

Thank you Matt. 

54 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

That ↑ would be reason enough for me to leave. Never held with non-band members coming to rehearsals. One band, the drummer's wife always came along. After a few weeks she started offering 'advice' about arrangements. Then about individual parts. Then about me "moving around too much" - in a rehearsal?

 

Silly mare but he wasn't going to divorce her so I left the band.

Indeed.

If we do get to the gig, and I hope we do with smiles on our faces, we will be professional. Of that I’m sure. 

Just now, Woodinblack said:

 

Waterlooville? Perish the thought - I am from Portsmouth, why would I want to slum it over the hill??

 

I meant Steve B. I spent many a formative year in Pompey and the surrounding territory. 

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

We have all been there!

Now I'm curious, those Waterlooville lads

Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out.

 

It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. 

 

We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored  The bass sounded just right to my ears btw.

 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

I think you can see what’s going on here, especially the looks between the drummer and guitar player! The others have all played together and are pretty much on the same page. They also seem to accept the guitar player as the band leader. Therefore, in the context of this band, the issue is you!

 

If you are going to play in bands, you have to accept that most good musicians (and a lot who are not very good) have egos to some extent. So, you have to learn to deal with it. You can come on Basschat to moan about things and you will always get the same sympathetic response telling you to either leave or to confront the band leader in such a way that you will get fired. But if you want to play in bands then you have to learn how to deal with things like this.

 

I would reckon a way forward is at the next rehearsal you suggest that you think the band needs cues from the guitarist, either visual or he plays an agreed phase to signal that the solo is coming to an end. You can point out that this is how pro bands generally do things. This will at least make the guitarist think when he is going off-script, make it easier for you and hopefully make any car crashes onstage less likely.

 

I think this is a very accurate picture. I’m seen as the problem here at least by the lead and possibly the drummer. The singer is fairly even handed around it all despite it being his brother. Don’t get me wrong, the lead can be a pleasant fella and is most of the time. It is however, if only in feel, his band. I’ve been happy to run with that. Hopefully we can find a way ahead. I suppose what I really struggle with is being made to look an eejit because of his off piste playing. 

3 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

Tricky.

 

I think I'd have gone by now, The volume thing would be enough for me.

 

This shouldn't be about just you and the guitarist.

 

Have you talked to the drummer and Rhythm guitarist about this?

 

If they're of the same mind as you, why don't you all walk?

 

Assuming that they've got the same issue, you could all agree that you three will play the song as per the original structure (plus any variations that you've agreed in advance). Then - collectively - tell the guitarist that if he wants to deviate from this "in the moment", he needs to give you all a visual cue of some sort or you will all carry on following the agreed structure and he will sound like a complete idiot. 

 

Then implement and stick to this policy religiously until either he "gets it" or you all walk.

 

Of course, if they don't see a problem then maybe you need to find a band with a better standard of musicians. There is a difference between being able to play an instrument and being able to make music in a band with other people and it seems that you're the only one seeing that distinction.

 

Good luck with it

 

PS Unless you're certain that the gig won't be a car crash, I'd be gone well before it

 

My previous post may give a hint about band dynamics. I'm the incomer. 

 

The gig is driven by me. My local I.A.M. Motorcycle Group has it's annual dinner and I was asked if we'd play. Otherwise we would probably have carried on as a perennial practice band. I was also hoping that it would lead to more gigs. Instead we're in danger of coming apart at the seams!

What a great response. Thank you. As a bassist I have the confidence of a gnat. But (never start a sentence with but), I've improved a lot and I can hold down a pretty solid bassline. I've been playing for over 20 years, much of that at home by myself. I'm 67 so started late. So I don't sell myself well and I couldn't improvise if my life depended on it.

 

In this 20+ years I've played in 3 bands and only done 3 gigs (which were an absolute blast) all of which were with the first band of guys all older than me, many years back. I've come on a long way since then. I'm the oldest in this lot but none are that young.

 

If I turned up, cranked up my amp to dominate the band and then did my own thing occasionally with some of the songs (through error methinks not creative effect) I would get comments made about it along the lines of 'you need to sort yourself out'. If I then had a tantrum I would get asked to walk. 

 

The the lead, drummer and rhythm have been in a band and gigged before. Rhythm only really wants to turn up once a month to play with other folk, stuff he likes and doesn't have to do any work on. He's not keen on gigging. The drummer (who is in other gigging bands) is tight with the lead and from the looks exchanged between them there's stuff being said that I'm not a party to. My options around here in terms of opportunity are limited. I don't want to go back to the bass 'shed', the last time that happened I gave up for a couple of years.

 

I'm going to say my bit along the lines of the above the next time we get together but I suspect I'll get nothing but another hissy fit. 

 

I love playing. My limited experience of gigging leaves me wanting more. Bands are ego-fests. I'm an open and honest sort of bloke. The two seem to clash.

 

Peter

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Difficult one, if he really is as good as it seems he thinks then - unless your singer is absolutely amazing - he’ll be the “selling point” of the band. And if you look like getting good work based on that I’d be tempted to let him lead & get the rest to follow.
If however he’s not that great and his playing isn’t likely to draw the crowds & work then I’d want to reign him in and get set structures.

The singer is his Bro. They practice together a lot.

I play in a covers band. We've been playing together in a loose way for a couple of years and now we have our first gig in January.

 

Things are okay. Having the gig to work towards has its benefits (I'm feeling very focussed by it) but it's proved a little stressful. We have a lead who plays very loud. Rhythm can barely be heard at times but my bass and rig allows me to cut through the mix pretty well. The lead 'drives' the band and sometimes I think that if I stopped playing he'd carry on regardless. We have a range of abilities and willingness to put work in. I spend many hours a week working on the material.

 

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there. This means that I have to think on my feet at times I can get a bit lost getting back into the song. I find this frustrating and solvable. I don't mind if we play the song 'wrong' so long as we all know and we're consistent. In previous bands I would hang in with the correct song structure, verse, chorus, bridge etc and the band would hang in with me.

 

When I raise this the lead can get very angry. To the extent that the drummer had to take him outside to calm him down on one occasion. I'm not rude, I just suggest that we need to get the structure sorted. He will occasionally make a comment on my bass line and I'll simply listen and sort it. I think that he may have issues with perceived criticism and that's causing his simmering rage.

 

I feel that it's disrespectful to 'do your own thing' and expect others to fit in 'on the hoof'. It's not Jazz and I'm an enthusiastic bassist with a limit to my talent. It's also easily sorted to my way of thinking. I tried messaging him to sort it out and his reply was, basically it's not a priority and we can work on it later. I feel like this stuff is the basics and needs sorting straight away. 

 

Any thoughts? I'm not a seasoned pro and bands are I find hard work at times (too much ego going on).

 

Peter

 

 

Price dropped still further. This really is a festive bargain.

That looks lovely Paul

Now £899

 

This is a really nice bass. Beautifully made with a great tone especially with the full John East Uni Pre. Since I collected my 32" scale Zoot it has only been picked up a couple of times and this is only a reflection on how much a medium scale suits me better.

 

It is a custom built Sandberg but not originally built for me. I guess it was commissioned with someone's 50th birthday in mind. The woods are stunning. The grain makes me think Wenge although I'll bow to those more knowledgeable. There's wedge and bubinga going on methinks.

 

The zero fret compliments a fairly jazz proportioned neck and the fretwork is excellent with low wear. This is simply a superb bass. Being the woods it is, it's about 10lbs on my bathroom scale.

 

The controls, from the neck are Volume, Balance, Treble over Bass with a pull bright setting, Mid sweep and finally a Passive tone (that works in active) with a pull for passive.

 

I'm happy to let the lovely Harvest strap go with the bass if a buyer wants it. It's just right in my opinion. Dunlop strap fittings.

 

I don't have a hard case. I only have one gig bag to my name and no boxes so shipping is an issue. I'm happy to meet up a reasonable distance away. I'm in the far flung NW of England. I'd certainly consider trades for a 32" scale bass.

 

Viewing welcomed as is having a noodle

 

Peter 

Zoot 32” Funkmeister P bass review

 

 

Over the course of 25+ years and many, many basses I finally concluded that:

 

1.     I particularly love the Precision sound

2.     I don’t need more than 4 strings

3.     Standing around playing for up to 3 hours was stressful to my back and shoulders

4.     I was getting stress injuries and ‘trigger finger’ with my left hand 

 

I have many friends who use basses made by Mike Walsh of Zoot (Iceni) bass in Essex.

 

I originally hail from Essex (Mersea Island), and I’ve met Mike on a couple of occasions over the years. I did own a fretless 5 made by him many moons ago. I bought it 2nd hand from a guy in NI and it didn’t work out mainly because it hadn’t been looked after and the cigarette smell wouldn’t go away.

 

Mike offers the opportunity to place a deposit and then make payments as the build progresses. He’s busy now and back to being a ‘one man band’ so build times are creeping up to and even over a year. I had a couple of basses to sell, and the monthly transfer of funds wasn’t an issue. Due to my regular changes to the spec the cost rose steadily!

 

I have a 2008 Fender Jazz in off white with both white and tort plates. I bought it on Bass Chat (Nick Carey). He had the neck fettled by a top luthier (Mr Robinson in Bolton) and upgraded the tuners. I fitted a high mass Gotoh bridge and upgraded the wiring (still passive, VVT) It’s an awesome bass and more than the sum of its parts. It’s also the model colour wise for the Funkmeister and a keeper. Another huge inspiration was seeing Mike Birch’s black 32” scale Funkmeister P finished.

 

So, to start with, a 32” scale. I believed that the 32” scale is the ideal compromise for me. I find 30” a little bit ‘wee’. Ownership for several months has validated this choice hugely. The body is scaled down to suit the neck and it’s also chambered which has made a huge difference to my comfort. I’ve not weighed it yet (I will, for the review) but it’s light! Lightweight Hipshot tuners are fitted with ‘proper’ ears and it balances absolutely perfectly.

 

I wanted a matching headstock, a maple neck, and an ebony fingerboard. No front markers. I initially wanted a John East P Retro. Sadly, John was having problems obtaining the rechargeable battery at the time and they were temporarily (?) discontinued.

 

Mike had a cream Haussel pickup that he suggested I could use. This was a change away from the black that I had in mind, but I thought it would work well with my colour scheme of off-white bass and ‘Colgate’ white plate. When the P Retro became unobtainium Mike suggested a Noll 2 EQ with an active/passive switch and passive tone powered by 18volts. I have heard many positives about Noll and went with that.

 

Things I changed as the build progressed?

 

1.     A zero fret was added

2.     I decided that I would like a 3-piece neck for added stability. The centre of the 3 pieces is reversed.

3.     The next add on was to add ebony veneers between the 3 neck pieces

4.     I had Mike add in his ‘magic’ filter circuit with a switch between the controls

5.     I had a 2nd ’tort’ plate made to give me that option

 

I had already specified Dunlop strap locks and Dunlop flatwound strings.

 

I value 4 main things in a bass. It must look good, play well, have good build quality, and have a versatile and strong tonal palette, capable of the job it’s designed for. It excels on all 4 counts.

 

Looks:

 

I love it! The finish is flawless, the ebony board is very black, the matching headstock is stunning and as an added, unexpected extra the neck is flamed maple. Looking down at the neck while playing can make me smile in appreciation as I see the flame finish and the neck veneers.. 

 

Playability:

 

Perfectly balanced, light weight (7lb 10oz on my fishing scales), and that slightly shorter scale makes a huge difference to my left hand comfort.  I went with Mike’s suggestion for the neck profile and it’s not particularly shallow as per modern trends, but it just feels right. Fret access (I don’t often go there) is very good too.

 

Build: 

 

Its fit and build quality matches its finish. In terms of fretwork the neck is very well dressed and the trussrod is smooth and light to turn. The neck is super stable. The zero fret takes any mention of the nut depth away and the neck has a neat 5-bolt fixing. No build issues here.

 

Sound:

 

I generally play through a GK Legacy 800 head and one 8-ohm Accugroove Tri112L cab. I have a 2nd cab (both the earlier models with 2 variable controls on the rear) but I’ve not needed the 2nd cab yet. Bass to amp is via a Broughton tuneable HP filter and a EBS Microbass III. The Funkmeister has a huge range of tone for a single pickup bass. Firstly, and most importantly it cuts right through the mix at very low volume settings on the amp. Passive is pure P bass and active just boosts/cuts the same in bass and treble land. The passive tone works in passive only. I tend to run with the bass control centred and the treble backed off a tiny amount. Either that or passive with the tone set to taste.

Mike’s magic filter? I guess it’s a sort of Low Pass filter. It’s a whole lot more than just rolling off passive tone. It gives the bass a real old school tone without taking away any of its ability to cut through. It’s great. It gets used often.

 

The bottom line? I couldn’t be happier. I’m enjoying playing more than ever and much of that is due to the bass. My MiM Jazz and custom Sandberg Jazz with JE Uni Pre are sadly under used.

 

The full spec sheet:

 

Body:     Zoot Funkmiester 32" from swamp ash finished in "off white/light cream" hi-gloss

Neck:     32" Canadian maple neck with Bi-flex two way truss rod with modern 'C' profile. 

Finger board:  Ebony with M.O.P. dot inlays to side and a compounded 16" radius and medium heavy fret wire

Pickup:   Haussel P pickup in cream

Bridge:    Hipshot "Kickass" in chrome

Machine heads:   Hipshot "Ultralite" with Fender clover leaf buttons in chrome. D Tuner Hipshot.

String retainer:    Hipshot "Ultralight" quick change

E.Q.          Noll 2 EQ Active/passive with passive tone and filter with swich

Battery details:    Gotoh 18Vdc quick change battery box. 

Top nut size:     40mm with zero fret

Bridge saddle spacing:  19mm

Neck finish:     Hi-gloss to back of headstock matching colour front with smooth satin to rear of neck (playing area) 

Body finish:     Hi-gloss off white with ‘tort' and brilliant white 3 ply scratch plates.

Hardware:   All other hardware in chrome finish.

 

Price, £1325

 

Sold 

For the cost of postage this is for the first person interested. It's just sitting around gathering dust.

 

Peter