GreeneKing

52 minutes ago, Baukysbass said:

Hi, Peter,

 

l’m interested in this bass guitar. I could transfer to you £899 and send a courier. Does that suit you? 

 

 

 

I’ll pm you. 
 

Peter

I've just spent nearly £35 unsuccessfully on an eBay sale (such is the price of having a reserve). I played this bass last night and it emphasised to me just how good it is, how well it is made and it's condition.

So another price reduction. If needs be it'll stay because it is lovely

There's been some reasonably acrimonious to'ing and fro'ing going on. Finally, at the very last, the lead guitarist has said what it's all about (ffs), that he was exasperated with me because I'm not musically adept enough to cope with his style of playing. His anger and exasperation plainly visible for months, was down to me as I half guessed. 

I'm not good at improvising over a chord chart. That's an understatement I learn a song beforehand and when we come together as a band I play pretty much the 'textbook' baseline unless it's too difficult for me when I'll adapt it. If it's not right I'll  listen to advice and sort it. I can spend many hours on a song that gets binned at the first hurdle. That's me and I value advice and work to develop my playing.

I tried to talk about the inconsistent song structure, how I felt it needed sorting and that it spoiled my enjoyment of doing a good job. He got angry. At no time did he communicate exactly who with or why. As said above, we could have communicated when to move from chorus to bridge etc.

He's finally said exactly why. Because I can't cope l with his style and seamlessly adapt to an extra phrase or two being inserted or deleted from the song structure on a whim (by mistake). He plays by feel and I'm a music technician. I acknowledge that we all make mistakes.

I put a lot of work into my playing. I'm not gifted in some ways but I can hold time, play an appropriate bassline and get some feel into the song. i.e. I can fill the role.

This is where his 'musical differences' or 'musical incompatibility' comes in. It's a bit of a shock to my esteem but I'm not sure that his expectations are fair or realistic. He's not vastly experienced with bands and gigging.

So basically I've been sacked because I'm not good enough. (Or perhaps because he can't communicate at all and he has unrealistic expectations).

I don't think he was impressed when I said he played too loud and dominated the band by way of it. It's calling him a musical arseshole evidently.

Upwards and onwards then.

Peter

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Messages plural? Singer and guitar hero. Anyone else?

Drummer, who i suspect is in communication with the lead and his bro. 
These aren’t bad folk. We started out as a jamming setup, no ‘boss’ as such. 
Then I got us a gig!
The lead plays too loud. He also plays by feel meaning that his song structures can be loose and inconsistent in some songs. He can’t or won’t deal with that. He gets threatened when I raise it as an issue and has gone off on one again. 
End of really  
 

1 hour ago, TimR said:

I think we've all left bands, been chucked out of bands, been replaced, have bands fall apart on us.

 

It's the nature of the beast. You'd never grow as a musician if you didn't move around and play differrnt music  with different musicians. 

 

Just have to see it as an opportunity to try something new. 

yep, I’m a little gutted, especially since it feels like the blame has swung around in my direction. 
But I’ve learnt that my standards are higher than some others. 

Well it has all disintegrated. Fallen apart in an apparently convivial manner but from the ‘we wish you all the best in your musical direction’ messages I guess I rocked the boat against the ‘boss’ and that wasn’t acceptable. 
I wonder if they already have a replacement in mind? 
I feel that I’ve been reasonable in my questioning of the inconsistent structure  of some songs and how this left me exposed musically. This thread has helped me see that my thoughts on this are valid. Sadly it created I situation where I became the problem. 
Im a little gutted that it ended this way I guess but sometimes we have to stick with our position. 

Peter

9 minutes ago, pete.young said:

It sounds like it. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you, I lived in Cumbria for a while and I know how limited the opportunities are. I dont' see what else you could have done: you put up with a lot of things that didn't work for you, made compromises, made sterling efforts to communicate. For me the hardest thing to get past would have been the guy having to be calmed down mid-rehearsal. Hang in there, salvage whatever you can from the other band members, and hopefully next time you will get better luck, you deserve it.

Thank you Pete. Appreciated. 

29 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

To be fair, it's only a fact because you say it is - we haven't heard the guitarist's side! Now, I think that you are probably right and what he is doing is totally unreasonable / incompetent and that he is pretty clueless.

 

For me, the interesting thing beyond your own particular circumstances, is how musicians in different but similar situations can navigate band politics when these types of things arise. 

 

 

Put it this way, to be wrong I’d need to be telling lies. I’m not. 

Just now, Stub Mandrel said:

 

This is the solution for Band Joy. Musicians who learn to communicate what's happening. Good bands are tight. Excellent bands can give the appearance of totally going to pot, then pull it all back together as if they intended it that way.

 

To do this means everyone being sympathetic ton how everyone else plays and LISTENING TO EACH OTHER!!!

Absolutely agree. In previous bands myself and the drummer have held it together. I’m good at counting   Sadly our lead guitar plays too loud and dominates the whole band. 

5 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Why don't you set up a jam with the rhythm guitarist and the drummer?

That may be the outcome. The Rhythm guitarist has no desire to gig at all and no lead aspirations.  I see performing as a natural progression. The drummer is more closely aligned to the lead guitarist I think. Whatever will be. I need to keep myself free from any unpleasant stuff and stay honest in all this. 

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

The thing is that I don't know whether you are right, because I haven't seen your band play and I don't know (by reputation or otherwise) any of the musicians involved and you can't point to any past track record to say that you are the one who is in the right. Everyone commenting here is taking your side because you are a regular poster on this bass forum, but no one really knows. 

 

For what it is worth, what you say rings pretty true and I image that it's likely that you are right, but I certainly can't say that for certain. But the bottom line is that you find yourself without a band because of a falling out with the de facto band leader for whatever reason. For me, the interesting thing is what an inexperienced bass player can take away from this thread and how they can learn from your hard-earned experience. 

 

The fact that he is playing songs and altering the structure at whim is a fact. That is the issue here. How good I am or each of us are in this instance is immaterial. I get complimented on my playing by other members but the issue is myself and the rhythm guitarist having to sort out what is going on mid song and looking numpties doing so. We are as good as we are. We try to do it for enjoyment although when you are being hung out to dry like this it tends to spoil the fun. 
 

I’ve no desire to castigate the lead guitarist. I created this thread because I wanted to know if the situation I’m up against is unreasonable. I was fairly certain it was as I’m not a total newbie. I’m not the most experienced band member despite being a lot nearer 70 than 60 (how did that happen). I now have no doubt that this guys musical ‘style’ and expectations are completely unreasonable. I have tried to deal with this the right way and I’ve been met with tantrums and someone who believes this situation is my problem not his. I can do no more. It’s a shame but I’ll move on. 
 

Once these threads get to a certain length they become unwieldy. 
 

Probably time to give it a kind despatch? 

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Now that the band has ended, you can send him a link to this thread.

 

Maybe he’ll learn something.

Generally, in my experience people don’t. 

42 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

 

I can't even work out what way it ended.

 

I guess that was the OP's problem with most of the songs. 

 

😆

Of a set list of 22 he was consistently getting 4 or 5 ‘inconsistent’. Every now and again he’d surprise me by adding one to the list that had always been okay before. The real issue I guess is that he doesn’t see anything wrong with his approach. 

11 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Well the OP has been forced out of a band because he has had a fallout with the guitarist, who was in effect the band leader. This seems to be because of the guitarist's timing issues, but I don't really know who was actually at fault there because I've never seen them play. 

 

It’s not timing. My timing is pretty solid. Please see the post above. 

43 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

That was my point about six pages ago! 

 

It is very hard really know how to take these types of thread - I've never seen these guys, so you really don't know how good / bad they are so you don't know who is in the right! I've played with guys with big egos, but never where they have issues like this. It was inevitable that it was going to end this way. 

 

What he was doing, as I’ve said a few times now, is missing a few bars, or phrases out mainly. Usually around a bridge or coming up to the outtro. There is nothing artistic in it, just not getting it right and not thinking it important. Sometimes where a phrase should be shorter, like either side of the middle bit in ‘Come Together’ he’ll play it like the rest of the song and sometimes he won’t. He just approximates song structures on a whim. 

29 minutes ago, lozkerr said:

 

Backing tracks don't get narky when you make mistakes.

 

 

                   

 

That tells me that you need to put your rep first. If you decide to go ahead with the gig, make sure you can stay locked in with the drummer at rehearsals between now and the gig. Forget about the guitarist's widdling.

 

When you set up at the gig, make sure that (a) you're standing upstage of this tool and (b) ensure that no-one's masking you. Then, when the guitarist goes off-piste, stay with the drummer so the rhythm's consistent and deploy every venomous glare, tightened lips, eye roll and head shake you can when he screws up the song. He won't see it because he'll have his back to you, but the audience will. Keep it subtle, though. If you have a volume pedal, you could try cranking it slightly so that the audience can hear you're trying to hold it together.

 

Then quit after the gig, citing the guitarist's reply as the reason.

 

If you're concerned about being badmouthed by this fool, get someone to video the gig. Then, if they start slating you on social media, just reply with some clips showing the biggest howlers.

That is an ideal approach. Sadly the bugger plays so loud he and probably the audience wouldn’t notice if the rhythm section stayed on course

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining  

I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. 
I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it.
It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. 
He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. 
Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. 
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. 
 

Peter

39 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

 

You’ve alluded earlier to lacking confidence. You ride a motorcycle FFS! You’ll never get me on the back of one of them!
Good luck. 

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was 16. There is my field of expertise  I wish my bass playing were anywhere near that level. 

43 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

 The guitarist may be highly experienced with many gigs under his belt with the conference to improvise. If this is the case though I would hope he would be able to signal his changes to the rest of the band and have the maturity to guide the less experienced members so they were working with him and nailing the songs in rehearsal.

I haven’t played in a band for a long time and when I was in one we were all equally inept so stuck rigidly to the structure. We were fairly rubbish but I saw plenty of local bands live who were technically more proficient than us but sucked live as they were doing exactly what your guitarist does.

It was like watching 10 year olds in a local football tournament. 11 would be strikers all doing their own thing.

 

It’s really not about him having a flair for improvisation but instead chopping the odd few bars out due to both not bothering to get it right and not seeing it as any sort of an issue. 

23 minutes ago, steve-bbb said:

On a more serious note in defence of the guitard, we always worked on the premise that if the drums and bass were really tight then the guitar was free to be as loose and “stylish” as he pleased (we had the luxury of keys too)

 

i get where he is coming from but he is probably not putting it across in the best possible way, and the overall situation not helped by the fact that the rest of the band let him continue so long implies a sort of “tacit approval”

 

just my $0.10 worth ymmv mcton hope this helps

I’m not talking ‘loose and stylish’, just getting the structure wrong and most commonly cuttings bits short. To my way of thinking that is making a mistake. He doesn’t see it as a mistake but his ‘playing by feel’. Perhaps a bigger issue is his tantrums every time I try to say anything about it. 

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. 
I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

6 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Something which I have resisted saying for 8.5 pages, but will now say, is that you should really have tackled this issue a lot earlier. But, like me saying that, you've put it off an awfully long time. I hope you've managed to strike a diplomatic tone. The next stage is to work your way through the songs properly, and stop them whenever it goes titsup to tell him what's gone wrong. For one thing, if you're doing covers and he's getting the length of the solo wrong, he's not playing the original solo - that might be worth pointing out.

We haven’t been a gigging band for long, just a bunch of guys meeting up for a jam regularly. So there was no need to address his inconsistent structure. 
 

6 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

What did he say about the problem? Did he have any answers or suggestions?

He was sympathetic to my view. 

7 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Go with message beforehand.

 

experts in bellendery love an audience - and I fear you may not have much in the way of support in the room if it comes to a you vs him situation.

 

 

I'm compiling a txt as I type   Hopefully diplomatically. I'll re-read it before I press send.

I was chatting to the leads bro who I met in the street, our singer. I realise that the lead is essentially a bedroom player. He has no concept of what it means to play with other musicians. Of course he doesn't see song structure as an important issue because when you're playing in your bedroom it doesn't matter.

His guitar is too loud, he thinks only of his part and is completely unaware that his mistakes are wrong footing other members in the band and basically hanging them out to dry. I'm fed up with him saying on a song ending, that sounded great when I spent two bars trying to adjust from playing the chorus to the outtro. He's oblivious.

Next practice I'm going to have a word, I'll tell him beforehand that tantrums aren't acceptable and explain a few facts around being in a band. Either that or I message him beforehand.