Beedster

Many years ago I did a lot of work around identifying the instruments, strings and amps of a couple of to my mind iconic bassists (OK, Flea and Zender). Sadly, not only did using exactly the same equipment not make me sound anything like the target players, I probably sounded even less like them than I'd done on my former gear. Conclusion? Play an instrument and setup you're comfortable with and play in the style of the player you want to emulate. It was mention on strings in the OP that made me reply. I've found some strings (Fleas Bass Boomers for example) appear to make me sound bloody awful, others flatter my playing. I've no idea why, but I generally stick to the latter

That's nicely put Andy, and thanks for reporting. I went to see a bass that was advertised locally and which was clearly not a Fender, which a very nice lady had bought from eBay for her son believing it was. At first I thought she was the con-artist, but it became clear that she had sunk a lot of money on this bass and had been completely done (probably an Encore also).

There is, it's why there are so many wealthy Nigerian princes

A fantastic answer Phil, thanks so much. There's generally quite low understanding among musicians of the fact that the 'sound' and 'tone' of instruments, amps and cabs is created, or more correctly processed and at times biased and/or predicted (subjectively interpreted) in the brain. That our brains acquire certain priorities over time also explains why our tastes differ, and why two people can sometimes hear two different things from the one source. And in this context, never underestimate the power of prediction in relation to, for example the sound quality of a £10,000 set of speakers verses that of a £100 set of speakers

I think we can go around and around on the rights or wrongs of the buyer's approach. The bottom line as far as Adrian is concerned is that buying musical instruments is often an emotional process, and the logic underlying a buyer's decisions is often very far from what common sense dictates it should be. This thread has not perhaps changed the way we think about the basses in question - we all know stuff happens, errors are made, even the best people have bad days - but I think many of us feel differently about the business that makes them, and those feelings are the critical factor in the market place (look at What RH did to people's feelings about Rics). As is suggested above, given he runs a big business, Adrian is naive and/or arrogant for not recognising this simple fact of sales, for not saying "OK, let's get it sorted", and for doing so irrespective of his views of the objective rights and wrings of the situation. In fact, he is arguably acting not just arrogantly but irresponsibly (see the Ratner reference above), especially given that all indicators suggest that the market is about to get a whole lot harder. Is the bass worth what the buyer paid? Probably. Does the builder have a case? Yes. Is the buyer happy? No. The ultimate aim of a business is its happy customers.

Plus about 200 others issues

Appears to have been original going on the wiring, which was of a very good quality I might add, with a rather substantial metal plate over the whole thing. Yep, I think it was a phase switch, difference was subtle, hard to tell if it was a DAFA or a proper old school DFA unless you really listened

Slight correction John, Owy's doesn't have the DAFA switch evident on my ex

Ah, OK

Surely the configurator is the very definition of pick and mix; Jazz neck, Precision body, MM-style humbucker etc, hardware often from different manufacturers and different styles of bass? Either way, I didn't say there was anything wrong with that, but I'd contrast their's and Fender's approach to instrument making with builders at the opposite extreme, for example Wal. I recognise it's an extreme contrast, but in my original mention of pick and mix I'd had mistakenly assumed the business was perhaps more Wal than Fender.

I'll let the owners of recent fenders reply to that

Ha ha, I was going to say "If they delete this, I'll leave the forum", but I don't want to give Ped any more reason to delete it than is perhaps already in play

Even Fender (also pick and mix let's face it) get the bodies and necks matched these days those WoT, mostly anyway

There goes his UK business

Just checked their website out of curiosity and had clearly misunderstood the type and scale of business it is, so some of the above is probably a long way off the mark. It's certainly not a case of a luthier in over his head as suggested above; more a pick and mix parts dealer than custom builder. I can see how tempting the configurator approach is, but frankly unless I was doing something really wild, I'd rather source the parts and put a bass together myself, that way you know what you're getting. There's clearly a load of hardware from different high quality brands on offer, but do they manufacture their own necks and bodies or are they outsourced?

That's my thinking also. it would be a good idea to summarise the thread (possibly in a revised opening post), and then ask one of the mods to close it. It will stand as useful information for anyone looking to buy one of the basses in question, without it getting so long and drawn out that is ceases to be anything but the long and lingering death of a once valid complaint. As Mr Mandrel suggests, there's a point in time at which the moment is no longer in your favour...

Absolutely, it's just the need for emotional closure that's keeping this process going, and that's a lose/lose situation for the OP. There's a real need to switch off the emotions and get on with other stuff. To quote the famous Budweiser ad, 'Let it go Louis, let it go...' And of course, if the negativity about the bass keeps building, come the inevitable day it's going to be a nightmare to sell the bloody thing

IIRC that idea was challenged a while back because manufacturers were trying to avoid returns by making every item technically an order as opposed to a purchase. Either way, why am I getting in to this, it’s a minor issue here:)

OK, if it’s cut and dried, is this or is this not a custom bass?

I don’t think discussion of the legalities is relevant, it would now come down to a war of words anyway. A legal definition of custom in this case would take a while to clarify and cost money to someone, as would so many other factors. Buyer walk away, seller learn a big lesson. Basschat members you’ve been warned, don’t f**k with Adrian

I think it means that, like so many classic bass lines, they sound simpler to play and, dare I say it, less well played and/or recorded than we might otherwise have imagined. In this case, having heard the soloed track, I agree on both counts, although it remains a great performance of a great line. Thanks again for posting tourdefran

Yes

I doubt he will, he and the buyer are both, perhaps with reason on both sides, invested in their side of the argument now. If I was the buyer, I'd accept that fact, get the issues resolved locally and move on. If I were the builder, I'd be kicking myself for the reputational losses perhaps recognising that the sheer drawn out nature of this process leaves him in a lose/lose situation; if he refunds it says he was wrong and shouldn't have made such an intransigent stand for so long, if he doesn't refund he remains the bad guy for leaving such an unhappy £2000 buyer. This feels like a Talkbass thread to be honest, there seem to have been a number of luthiers who have fallen into this trap; too much success too quickly comes back and kicks you. He's a person, probably a decent person with a family and people who depend on him for their livelihoods, and there's no doubt he's a talented builder. I hope he comes out of this OK whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation, and despite what I said in my previous post about his inability to realise what's important in business. There's no doubt he brought some colourful instruments to the party and, irrespective of his apparent low social skills (hardly a crime and hardly unusual in craftsmen) and occasional mess-ups, he clearly made a lot of buyers very happy.

I have a Beat Buddy and a Roland Drum Combo. Frankly, had this tech been around in the 50's, drumming as we know it would never have evolved

Yep, that Ulas Engin thread was comedy gold. I've said in in another thread here, beware of social influencers and niche or new products. No disrespect to WoT, I'm sure he was genuinely pleased/impressed with his instruments, but there's of course always the possibility that the builder, knowing that WoT's a key influencer here, took special care with his orders, care that he clearly hasn't always taken with others (in a previous life I was a pro sportsman. I was given a lot of gear and technical support for free. I reciprocated by giving the people/companies in question very good PR among my friends. All too often my friends' experience of the same people/companies was nothing like the quality I received).