agedhorse

Properly harnessed racks are much more common in the pro audio side of things, we built up hundreds of racks for clients and never had any issues with servicing them. One thing about well organized (structured) wiring is that it's much easier to troubleshoot overall and it tends to be more reliable because everything is thought out in advance and executed according to the drawings.

Ouch, that's a mess.

He poured water out of the amp, that’s not just damp in my book. “Clean” flood water is loaded with corrosive minerals and contaminants. Cleaning PCBs is normally done with a final rinse using distilled or deionized water, then blown dry through an air knife. Sure if you know what you are doing and have access to the proper materials it may be successful but by the time you put that kind of labor into an inexpensive amp, it’s a generally a losing proposition.

If you do know electronics, you wouldn't recommend it...

My first pointer is that's not how to set bias, and is one of the more bizarre ways that I have heard over my career actually. There are different ways, but they all ultimately result in the current through one output tube times the voltage on the plate equal to about 70% of the tube's specified maximum plate dissipation (in watts). This will vary by tube family, 6L6 is different than EL34, is different from 6550 and KT88. If you don't understand this, or don't have the necessary equipment to do it safely, find a qualified service tech to do it for you. There are different ways to measure the current through the tube (directly and indirectly, with and without screen current contribution).

As I showed in the earlier calculations, the cost in the UK and EU are exactly the same as the cost in the US, when adjusted for exchange rate and VAT versus our sales tax. As it turns out, it appears that Gibson is picking up all of the additional costs of shipping, import duty, import processing fees, etc. The authorized dealers are in fact beginning to advertise, the earlier posts about Andertons is one. We will have authorized service centers in the UK and EU as well. In the UK, I believe Surrey Amps is one, Stan Lawrence is a very good, qualified tech and has worked on Mesa (and other brands I have been involved with over the years) for a long time. You can go to our website and search for dealers and service centers by international region. We may also set up our own in-house factory service center as well, but I don't know the details or which country at this time. If you don't like the thought of buying Mesa products, for whatever reason, that's fine but it would be helpful to everyone on BassChat if you kept your comments factual and accurate. Your concept of "regular, down to earth American" is extremely skewed. No little league game I have ever been to (when my kids were in Little League) has played our national anthem, nor does anyone that I have ever seen have a flag hanging from their porch or elsewhere. There may be small pockets of such behavior which gets blown WAY out of proportion by the media, but that's just sensationalism. It's no different than the inaccurate portrayal of Europeans (and others) by the media. There's a difference between acknowledging a country's past bad behaviors and national pride. I can think of plenty of examples of poor national behavior in the past by all countries, why shouldn't those countries that acknowledge and correct these behaviors be allowed to express national pride? If not, the entire world would remain in perpetual shame.

Not in the preamp world, the grid is often slightly positive relative to ground. It also depends on the circuit itself, for example, cathode followers have positive grids.

It certainly didn't start out that way, but when a distributor changes their tune and takes advantage of a customer in their region, the laws of the host country do not really allow the manufacturer to step in because of the required arms length relationship between the manufacturer (who acts as a supplier) to the distributor of record (who acts as the in country legal representative of the manufacturer, who sets the terms of sale and service in that region). It's not a good way to do international business unless both parties work together and not against each other. Unfortunately, when the relationship deteriorates, the laws of the host country limit what the manufacturer can do about it, and even the ability of a manufacturer to terminate the relationship before the agreement ends. Either way, I agree that it's bad for the customer for sure.

When it comes to replacement parts, if the distributor holds the import license and is ultimately responsible for following the import laws of the region, they are the ones who set the terms of the business in the region, not Mesa. In the case of Italy (and later with the EU) as an example, since there was a registered (with the government) importer of record. This is the entity responsible for following the import laws and also set the prices they charge and the terms of service. They are independent of Mesa, they are local to your region, we have no real control over them or the prices they charge other than discontinuing our relationship with them once the contract term expires (which I believe we ultimately did). This is one disadvantage to using distributors, but going forward we will be distributing through our parent company Gibson-Europe so we will have more control over both distribution and service terms.

If you power it up and it fails spectacularly, or damages a speaker attached to it, both are IME something to lose.

What doesn't make sense to me is that it doesn't seem to be national loyalty because I'm hearing that in Europe there doesn't seem to be any concern for where a product comes from as long as it's cheaper. This implies that there is no national loyalty... either to USA manufactured products or those manufactured in their home region.

Except that the Mesa Subway bass amps are targeted towards gigging players. There are a lot of them out on the road gigging night after night.

The D-800 is still a current product. I don't know why it's not there, but maybe because the container that contains those amps hasn't arrived yet.

Well, if they aren't an acceptable value for you, the obvious choice is not to buy them. That's fine, there are plenty of other good choices.

So for you, buying UK manufactured goods isn't important anymore? Are there any bass amps actually manufactured in the UK anymore (not just packaged from an off-shore supplier)? I'm simply explaining why our products cost what they do. I really don't care if our amps don't work for you, there are plenty of other more budget appropriate products to choose from. It really is a great time to be a bass player.

I'm not avoiding any issue, I read the comments as the products being too expensive in the EU/UK. We have never been a budget brand, nor have we ever pretended to be. The products are the same price there as here in the states unlike many other US brands which are often more expensive there than here. If it's too expensive for you, then USA built Mesa equipment is just not the right choice, that's fine. What about equipment that's actually built in the EU from major components sourced from the EU, or if that's more expensive is cost still the most important criteria? IMO, what the world doesn't quite grasp yet, is what happens when you absolutely need critical products and they CAN'T be purchased from overseas sources. That's what happens when manufacturing leaves currently "friendly regions" in the quest for lowest cost. Friendly regions change all the time, it's happened before it's happening now and is likely to happen again (and again, and again). This is why we should have all paid attention in history classes. I took a unique class in industrial history, studying manufacturing of critical components and equipment during wartime and the reconstruction of agriculture, infrastructure and manufacturing after war. It's a sobering subject, I would think those of you in the UK and EU would be both familiar with and sensitive to the risks of outsourcing in general. [edited for clarity and autocorrect gone wrong]

I would want to be sure there isn't an unidentified safety hazard, or damage that could cause an amp failure that could then damage your speakers. A qualified tech could do this, but if it was me, repairs of flooded gear just don't make sense as they tend to fail later on if it is able to be fixed at all. I don't repair flood damaged gear, there's no way I can ethically warranty such a unit because of all the hidden damage.

Sorry, I didn't see that the units were GBP and not Euros Doing the same calculations: Sweetwiter Subway D-350: $799 USD, no taxes included. Andertons Subway D-350: with the exchange rate being 1.25 dollars to the GBP we have 799 x 1.25 = 999 GBP but your pricing includes 20% (per section 65 of the VAT act) so subtracting out the VAT we get 999/1.25 = 799 USD So in reality, IMO, Gibson has remained extremely fair to our European customers by absorbing all of the costs of import taxes, customs and bonded warehouse fees and registrations themselves.

The D-350 is $800 here in the states, so it’s in reality less expensive in the EU when just the exchange rate and VAT are accounted for.

Costs have gone up for products built in the US, there’s no way around this fact. As a simple example, because the Euro is so strong the cost of ICEPower modules is higher in dollars. The only way to reduce costs is to use Chinese parts/materials and assemble in China which is not what we do. If low cost is the priority, there are plenty of other options out there. That has never been our business model.

Also, with the exchange rate being 1.08 euros to the dollar, it looks like the real cost in the EU is on par with the US due in part to the strong Euro.

Subtract 20% VAT and it’s pretty comparable to US costs. Remember that we have to add about 9% state sales tax (varies by state) to our prices. Then there’s shipping, duty, import fees and EU registration fees that US manufactured products get charged to get into Europe.

Current and voltage will be simultaneously at the maximum into a resistive load where the phase shift is zero degrees. Where phase shift gets tricky and particularly dangerous is where it’s leading (capacitive) which is difficult to compensate for. With highly reactive loads it’s possible to have the highest currents where the voltage is not the maximum. This has to be accounted for in VI protective limiters and SOA calculations for linear amps. For class D amps this is not as difficult.

VA is apparent power which is different than watts which is real power. Real power does work, apparent power x power factor = real power. Real power is the apparent power x the cosine of the phase angle. When the load is resistive, voltage and current are in phase and the cosine of zero degrees is 1, so VA = watts. Since a speaker or resistive plus reactive, both electrically as well as mechanically, the phase angle is generally mostly inductive and his the current lags the voltage. The cosine of this lagging phase shift is less than 1, therefore the real power is less than the apparent power. By how much depends on how reactive. This is all basic electrical engineering stuff, something every amplifier designer should know inside and out. It’s also something that a speaker designer should have at least a basic working knowledge of.

Good question, I don’t have these details but expect that they won’t be set up to sell amps for another month or so. They seem to be pretty overwhelmed with the opening itself and all the work associated with launching such an endeavor. I could be wrong however, but that’s my best guess from where I am sitting. This was just forwarded to me: https://www.guitarworld.com/news/gibson-garage-london-preview