dave_bass5

Id be happy to have a sub forum for PA, but i don't think we really  need it. There's a few threads already working, and there is at least cross over between IEM and PA threads. PA comes up in various threads, i don’t think this would stop. It could get messy.

I wonder if it's a fit issue. Ive had very thin sounding IME mixes, and couldn't figure out why until I realised one ear wasn't sealed well enough.

We did a  Social club in Corby recently. We (I and the singer) thought it a good idea to do this song, as it went down well a few months ago when me and the drummer played (busked it) it for a guy that kept on asking. The whole place were up and doing that funny dance they do. 

I said we should do it properly this time. Well, we never got to play it, and if we had it would have been embarrassing. The guitarists couldn't play it straight enough, and the bass player couldn't figure out where the C# F# E bit goes, so at rehearsals he would play it a few times 🤨

1 hour ago, gorandelac said:

Hey I'm just about to get away from my trusty old Shure 215, so thinking of these... what would you suggest.

 

KZ ZS10 PRO X

KZ AS16 Pro

KZ AS10

 

 

Easy to order them all from Amazon and send back the two you don’t like. 

I think you need to clarify why you are changing, what you are looking for etc.  

You have probably seen mention of all these so you can gather quite a bit of info from previous posts. No one can tell you what you should get without much more info. Even then, the ideal one on paper may not be the best one as fit and comfort also make a big difference. 

We switched from the traditional PA and and large speakers to a pair of dbTechnologies powered 1x15’s a few years ago and what a difference. We went for 15’s as the old speakers were 15’s and we had no intention of getting subs. 
They cost us £680 IIR for the pair. Sound very loud and we have no complaints about the quality. 
A few years ago I got a Yamaha DBX12 as a monitor. It has a slightly more punchy tone and the low end seems a bit cleaner. In hindsight the Yamaha would have been a better option, but back then I’m not sure the were even on sale. 
My drummer uses a DBR10, which is pretty impressive as it could quite easily work as a main Speaker, but is quite small. Before I went 100% IEM the monitoring at the back of the stage between me and the drummer was a full PA.  Sounded glorious lol. 

I didn’t mean to derail this fantastic thread, i was just pointing gout the BT can be used in a band environment, 

I never mentioned audio, and certainly woudl never try to use BT for anything audio ober than sending audio to our XR18 for music between sets, but i use the Widi master to play my MODX (which is on stage) from off stage when we sound check. I can play quite happily along with the band, with of course the issue of playing a glass keyboard to contend with. 

The latency i get is probably less than what i get when using Logic (9ms max), so it’s more than usable in a band environment. 

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

And WIDI is via WiFi not Bluetooth. We're talking about Bluetooth latency.

 

 

 

From the manufacturer’s website

‘Bluetooth 5: 4x speed, 2x range 

Breakthrough latency reduction of just 3ms between two WIDI devices

Automatic pairing between WIDI devices and other standard Bluetooth MIDI controllers.

High performance wireless MIDI with a working range of 20m/65ft without obstacles’

ill leave it at that. 

Also, as im sure you are aware, midi is not all about playing notes. Patch changes between songs etc can also be used, where latency doesn’t really matter. 

59 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

How does that work then?

 

Latency is latency and if there's too much delay for audio there'll also be too much delay for MIDI data. 

Ok, I guess you know more than me. 
I better sell my WIDI master then 🙄. 
Silly me thinking 3-5ms wouldn’t be noticeable😂

28 minutes ago, Kev said:

Bluetooth isn't usable in a live music environment, latency is too high sadly.

It’s fine for midi though. Just not audio. 

On 11/08/2023 at 10:01, Doctor J said:

It's country music, the artist is supposed to be broke and miserable.

Maybe they could get paid in Dog's. It seems they keep losing them (and pickup trucks). 

I had the X version for a few weeks and compared them to my singers older version. I could hear a difference. The X sounded smoother and slightly warmer to my ears (based on my Piano/brass test). Definitely easier on the ear compared to the old set, but still not what i was looking for ( and the fit was no different). I even got the upgraded cable for them, which IMO is a big upgrade over the standard one. 
 

The KZ and IE series have very different sound signatures, and the IE’s don’t sound as loud or in your face. 

8 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

OK that's really interesting, I'm really contemplating trying custom fits, it is a big layout and i couldn't afford the £800-1000 some of the pro ones cost, but if they really stay put and make a better seal I'd be happy with the sound quality of the IE100's or thereabouts. Did you try the MEE's with custom moulds or universal plugs? Which ones worked best with your piano? I'm guessing those would also work best with vocals?

Just with universal tips (various brands of memory foam). The 4 driver MEE’s were the flattest, clearest, but the 3 driver version is warmer and more what i wanted to hear. 

Id love to go custom, but its a lot of money and while i was willing to go that route, i now have no need (at least not with the current frequency of  gigs). What really put me off customs was the randomness. I couldn't get to hear them before, so it was always going to be an expensive gamble. 

The IE100 was a last ditch attempt at keeping the cost down, and i guess it worked, although im not 100% i should have got the IE400’s so fast. Less of the wow factor and a slightly different fit. Great and not going back, but im still questioning if i should have spent £300. 

The original plan was to get the IE100’s just to see if my theory about getting smaller ones would be the solution. As they came from Amazon i had nothing to lose. 

2 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Damn you  

 

Now I'm going to have to lend mine to our singer, she's already commandeered my radio mic, now I'm going to lose my in-ears.😂😂

 

 

Haha, it may just be a placebo effect or just because they are new. I'll give it a few more rehearsals/gigs before anything is confirmed. 

I mentioned my MEE's above, and just got them out to try against the IE400. These cost over twice what the MEE's cost me, but I still think the MEE's sound better. They are louder, but more lively and more open sounding. It's just a shame they won't stay put when I wear them. In fact im now wondering how I managed to get by with them for long. I know I tend to fiddle with them a lot at gigs, so to lose this aspect is a big plus. The sound is secondary really. I can EQ my feed if I need to. 

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

I'm using the IE100 pro. single driver but plenty of bass and to be honest a lot more detail in the bass due to the mids being more present. I couldn't get the sound I wanted out of the KZ10's. I sing as well as play bass and the huge midrange suckout of the KZ's just made my vocals sound horrible (well more horrible than even the reality) The IE 100's are much closer to my Sennheiser HD595's I use for personal practice. The lead vocals are much better too.

 

I want as much isolation as I can get and then I don't need extreme volume. I want to save what's left of my hearing. the IE100's go much louder than I can handle without distortion and have more bass than I really want, nothing below 80Hz suits me for monitoring. It's the harmonics I need to tell how well or badly I'm playing. The live monitoring sound is now really pretty damn good and getting better as I climb the learning curve. 

 

That doesn't mean the KZ's are bad, if I didn't need to monitor my own vocals I'd be completely content with them. 

 

If cheap really is your aim I found that the KZ ZSN's are really rather good, my drummer pinched them to use and I realised I preferred them to the ZS10's

 

 

Funny you mention your singing is better. We had our first rehearsal with our singer using her IE100 on Monday. There has always been this thing that she sings slightly out of tune, but it doesnt sound out of tune most of the time. Just something not quite right. This rehearsal sounded different. She seemed to be pitching better, and afterwards even she said ‘I hope it sounded as good out in the rooms as it did in my ears’. She said compared to her KZ’s the sound seemed more balanced and natural. She could hear more of my keyboards (which she tend to follow) and it was much easier to pitch her vocals. She has never really complained about the KZ’s, other than the size and the brightness, but she was blown away how much of a difference the IE100’s made. 

Ive never used high end IEMS, but all the ones i have tried have had multiple drivers in them, until now, and i found the more drivers the more i didnt like them. I had all 3 of the MEE Pros at one point, and really didn't like the 4 driver version as much as the 3.

My approach is, if my Pianos and Brass sound good, the rest fall in to place.  

8 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I'm using the Comply but the isolation is not good.  Could be my ear shape or that the KZs are quite large so pull/twist.  I'm less worried about nuances of 1 v 5 drivers and/or mid range availability; I need to get the isolation sorted otherwise I'm turning up the IE volume to offset the drum bleed through from the acoustic drums.    

I get more isolation with the Comfort Comply’s than I do with any of the other shapes. 
I get the KZ’s we’re always heading to the floor when I had them. No part was ever hooked in my ear, so it was always just the tip holing them in. 

15 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Those IE100s look significantly smaller/lower profile than the KZs, is that the case @Phil Starr?

 

Does anyone have a photo of them physically side by side?

I’ll get you a few tonight. 
Yes, they are very low profile and hook much better in my ears. Although I now have the IE400, which is the same Size, there are a slightly different shape and while more than comfortable, the IE100 os still a better fit. 
Id be happy with either, ive now found that the ear tip makes more difference. I’m now using large Comply Tsx400’s and these are just perfect. Shorter and fatter than standard foam tips, so give me a nice ear filling isolation. 

I mean no disrespect to anyone, but when I was looking for one I read the description and it stated mono or stereo on a switch. Didn't even need to look at the manual. 

1 hour ago, WalMan said:

Another good evening with the MercuryIEM’s and getting closer to a mix I’m happy with. Rolled the H6 ambient feed back and it helped a lot as that was getting ox & guitar bleed from the drummer’s monitor even if put behind the speaker.

 

Got hold of XAirMonitorMix from App Store which means I can’t accidentally select FOH and mess anything up. Seemed a no-brainier for £3.99

 

Still only used the P2 as everywhere has been tight on space, but that all seems fine running a 10M XLR from the stage box.

 

re the mono/stereo switch in the P2 I keep meaning to check but as I’m getting something in both plugs I’m presuming it must be set right, or just runs dual mono from the XLR in 🤷‍♂️

It will be dual mono. 
Mixing station also has a monitor mix only setting, which you can select when you start the app. Quite handy being able to keep unworthy fingers off the FOH mix. 

Wow, you P2 owners are animals 😂

First thing I did with mine was to tape the mono/stereo switch so it didn’t move. 
I keep a P1 handy (well, the G4M version) which is passive. It’s enough to drive my IEM’s as I use the headphone out so it’s already being boosted. 

Talking of design faults, and G4M. 

Many pages ago I was talking about not getting stereo from my XLR, even though I knew the cable was wired correctly. Turned out the G4M version of the P2 wouldn’t produce stereo via the XLR input, even though it would using a TRS cable. I had two, and both were the same. 

I’ve been asked by another band member to recommend some cheap IEM’s. 
budget is under £50. 
He doesn’t like the KZ ZS10 as they feel too bulky. They do slightly smaller ones. Anyone got any thoughts?

Still loving my IE400 pro. Singer now using the IE100 pro I originally brought. 
 

5 minutes ago, markbunney said:

Has anybody had any success using a Boss WL20L with a Behringer P2 as a DIY wireless set.

 

I have tried today but can only get it to work in left ear. (Note the P2 works in both ears when using XLR so I know it’s not faulty)

 

 

 

Is the P2 in mono?

Have you tried the comfort series? I’ve just switched to these as they are fatter. I get a better seal without needing them too far in. 

47 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

That's what the channel fader in the desk is for. Give him plenty of vocals in his IEMs and mute him FoH.

It’s more the fact that him and the bass player share a wedge monitor, and he is putting the bass player off (plus drummer as it spills across the stage. 
 

I hid his mic once, but one of the others (without realising what I had done) found him a spare 🙄

Another blessing for IEM’s. I’m in my own world back there and it all sounds great. 
 

Before getting the XR18 I used to have my own desk feeding just my Keys and an ambient mic to my IEM. That was fine, but now i get enough spill from the other mics that I don’t even need that.

37 minutes ago, jimmyb625 said:

Our guitarist/singist has to do this with his shure's, albeit with medical tape. My suggestion of staples wasn't taken up for some reason...

Does that tape work on mouths as well? I know a guitarist that insists on setting a mic up for BV’s, but really shouldn’t…😂😇