blue

[quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1504130703' post='3362947'] Hi Blue. I was using the word "mob" in a light hearted manner. I have no desire to wind up anyone really. I understand your way of working and enjoy your contributions to basschat. Thanks for taking the time to comment. Cheers Ray [/quote] No problem Ray. Cheers Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1504135634' post='3362975'] To be fair, neither do I [/quote] I bet you have a pretty good idea what it's like Pete.😁 Blue

Great story! Just a side comment. I don't think there's a "never play for free" mob. I think there are some that don't play for free, I'm one of them. But even I will play certain benefit gigs for free. I've played two well organized cancer benefits this year Blue

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1504107729' post='3362733'] nothing like a bit of confidence, but mainly it's good that they were honest, and you should be glad that he told you before you'd hired a studio...the amount of singers I've auditioned that have no experience, don't think they need to bother learning the songs and can't actually hold a tune... [/quote] If your a working band and in it for the money, with few exceptions I wouldn't audition anyone without current relevant gigging experience. Many newbies have no clue what it takes to play 3 four hour bar gigs Friday, Saturday & Sunday. Blue

The ability to quickly access people and personalities is crucial. Nobody wants to be in a band where your working with creepy, dishonest people. It's happened to me and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only guy to experience this. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504119303' post='3362851'] Indeed; not much work for the farriers in Central Manchester. Either go where the opportunities exist, or change horses, maybe..? No point flogging a dead horse. [/quote] Yes, a sad reality some have to face. Blue

A huge part of scouting out a new band is having a good understanding of your local market. Some folks live in areas where opportunities for working bands are practically non-existent. Blue

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1504105460' post='3362724'] But that's the bit of networking you're missing - the "band" may not want to work as much as you, but the lead guitarist might, and the drummer from another band might want to do more, etc. Have a chat and ask the players you like some leading questions about whether they see it as a Friday night hobby or whether they'd prefer to be earning money most nights of the week. then when you need to start a band to play every night, you know exactly who to ask. And if you can't find them, it may simply be a readjustment so rather than looking for the one replacement band, perhaps you can find two or three bands that would keep you ticking over. [/quote] All good points. However, starting a band is nothing I would or could take on. Not to say it's not a good idea for some. At the bar band level, a new band trying to compete and break into the limited market in my area would be a huge challenge. And staying a float working with several bands, I'm not networked for that and not really a viable option in my area. Blue

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1504099682' post='3362677'] I was actually talking about this with a mate at the weekend. We were in an originals band a couple of years ago that got nowhere despite being (though I say it myself) really good musicians, great songs, and with some very experienced players. Since then he's gone back to an old band that has reformed ans has just released an album, done a couple of tours, played a load of festivals and are selling lots of merch. We concluded that you need two key things: 1. A good product; 2. A band leader who has the right contacts and knows exactly how to sell it. back to Blue - you comment that you don't have the network to be able to pick it up again if your current band fell apart, but is this not something you can learn? Shadow the band leader, build up your own book of contacts at the bars you're playing, get together with other bands you bump into, etc [/quote] I could and would if it ever comes to that. The problem is finding bands that like to work as much as possible. Most bands I know of have a lot of restrictions they put on gigging. They don't have the spirit drive or desire to gig a lot like me. Blue

I get a cut on CDs sold. Both were recorded prior to me joining the band. That is more than fair. But my band has always been really cool with band money issues. I know there are some bands where you have questionable guys that will hold back on payment after a gig or have not been honest about what the band is being paid. Not cool. I'm spoiled and will not tolerate anything funky when it comes to money. If a band ever tried anything questionable with me they might find themselves without a bass player for the next Friday or Saturday night until it's resolved. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504044386' post='3362368'] Why more so than bartenders, nurses or any other profession with irregular or unsocial hours..? I spent a good few decades playing in such formations, and never missed a gig, nor came across any other band members, either. Most had growing families, as did I. When playing with [i]that [/i]regularity, it's more of a full-time job, I'd say, and pays the bills, so you don't miss gigs lightly. [/quote] I would say if the band is a primary or significant portion of a famies income it can work. But the guy with a good paying traditional career with young children that can just take off on every Friday and Saturday night and leave the children with his wife is rare in my neck of the woods. Blue

If a band made me an offer I'd want to know about the alcohol/ drinking culture of the band. I approach being in a band as a business and have a hard time with bands that bring heavy drinking into the picture. I'd actually like a "no drinking on the job" policy. But, if the money is good, I guess there's not much I can say. Blue

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1504021363' post='3362166'] Not having any kids and being a bit of an outsider looking in i've found that its easier for guys to carry on their social life and women generally seem to spend more time with newborn kids. That may just be an old fashioned image i have in my head and it's probably more male chauevenism at its best but its an observation over many years with many married friends. I agree with the comment that parents give up a lot for their children as they should but as you point out not everything. Surely there has to be some kind of a balance. Maybe i'm just old and have and older view of how couples work these days. Hopefully you'll get another band soon though. Dave [/quote] I've made this comment before. If your a busy bar band playing 2-3 nights a week, if you have band members with young children I see booking and cancellation issues on the horizon. Blue

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1503984587' post='3361898'] Gone are the glory days of having a few frothies with the bar manager while booking one of my bands, now it's all via email, sigh. [/quote] In the US, if your a bar band and your waiting for a bar owner to respond to an email, you'll be waiting for quite a long time. Bar business is still done by phone and face to face over here. Blue

Here's another potential "red flag". They offer you the job right after your audition. Blue

Be able to admit when a band may be out of your league, beyond your abilities. Meaning " No way can I play this stuff" Blue

What sort of things do you look for in a band, what's important to you, what's your deal breaker? For me, let's say the band is good all too shelf players but they don't have a "star" , meaning a personable, experienced front person that people instinctively like. Got to have a Star. Blue

[quote name='Burns-bass' timestamp='1503911924' post='3361440'] People need to create a brand for their band. The best ones are able to do this and become very successful. The best bands take a professional approach, analysing gigs, successes and failures. Criticism is essential, as it's about refining the product. And everything should be planned out, rehearsed and refined. Gigs come with the professional approach. [/quote] True, however I don't think all members need to be involved in the booking strategy. That should be left to the members that have that expertise or skill set. Blue

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1503912597' post='3361445'] I recently joined a well-established 3-piece covers band who play 60/70 gigs a year for decent money, certainly a money-oriented venture. After a couple of rehearsals, I found myself chatting with the drummer and asked him how long he'd been playing with the guitarist/singer. 40 years. I immediately told him that, if I'd known that earlier, I'd never have applied to the band. My first two gigs with them were on a Friday and Saturday, both old-school social clubs. The two of them were like an old married couple, with everything running at the very bottom of a well worn groove. Nothing at all could be changed, the equipment all had to go exactly as it always was, every note I played had to be exactly as instructed. They sacked me on the Sunday morning. Bullet dodged. Scouting out a new band? Start by finding out whether you're going to be the permanent new boy / spare prick at a wedding. [/quote] Doesn't sound like you could have seen this red flag earlier in the process. Great example of some of the things anyone should be looking for in terms of whether the band is an acceptable match for you. Me, personally I stay away from bands run by any husband and wife team. Blue

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1503898681' post='3361353'] Well, networking is the key isn't it. The more people and bands you play with, the more opportunities will arise. [/quote] Definitely, and the more likely someone will call you instead of the other way around. Blue

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1503891277' post='3361340'] Im assuming that the band is a cover band coz original bands get neither gigs nor money hehe I know this from 38 years experience, sigh So, I would check which agency (ies) they're going through and the gig guides to gauge if they are playing good-paying gigs. I'd ask my network of musos about them, in my city you can't fart without every muso hearing about it troll through old gig guides if possible to see what gigs they had most likely they won't have upcoming gigs if they're recruiting, but you never know, if they are go check em out anonymously. that's all I got for now [/quote] All good points. However, I would want to see imediate bookings as well as booking extending well into 2018. Blue

This is a problem for me. I own several expensive vintage bass guitars that I won't take to most of the places we play. Blue

Red Flag Just one example, you've checked out their website page and YouTube clips and they don't match the current line up. Not necessarily a bad thing, but worth asking questions about it Blue

I'll start. It's very difficult. If my band folded, it would be impossible to find another established band with weekly bookings going out into the better part of 2018. Blue

An old topic, but always relevant. I want to gear this thread more towards those who are, or have or will be looking for working band making money. I Again more for those who treat and approach playing as a business. First of all their are a lot of variables, location,the market and age to name a few. Sencond, even taking the above variables into consideration finding and winning an opportunity with a working band that's making money is close to impossible for most of us. Especially for those of us who are not networked. How about really understanding what your looking for in a band , the people you can work with respect and play with. Once you've defined your requirements and deal breakers you can start your search. Are you a good judge of character and can you see red flags. Your going to need to in order to match yourself with the right band.IMO What kind of things are important to you, again if your looking for money. Throw a few ideas, thoughts and experiences out there for those might be looking. Blue