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I'm a fan of the ZF. They make perfect sense and no-one on this planet may argue differently. If they do, they are nuts.

[quote name='retroman' post='739491' date='Feb 8 2010, 10:21 PM']And then spend about 2 hrs having to chisel off the bolt that the 50p spanner has mangled beyond all recognition I can understand the mechanic and his tools thing. I am a qualified mechanic, and must have at least £10,000 worth of tools They're all spotless, and kept in a very neatly arranged roll cab....Why? The amount of time that you can waste using inferior, poorly maintained, filthy tools, stored in a disorganised tool box is unbelievable. Not to mention the risk of personal injury increases using cheap tat, or looking highly unprofessional. Like I said, look after your tools, and they will last you a life time. Same levels of tidyness apply to my bass equipment. BTW, did I mention I'm a neat freak! No offence meant to anyone, just my own opinion. At the end of the day, we're all different, and it's OK to enjoy our hobby in different ways to each other [/quote] Excellent post, demonstrating exactly what I mean, from someone who actually knows what they're talking about, unlike me

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='739342' date='Feb 8 2010, 08:11 PM']Science. It's our ticket out of this hellhole we call 'Life'. Jah Rastafari.[/quote] Nuff respec

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='739330' date='Feb 8 2010, 08:00 PM']Far too many waffly 'opinions' in this thread for my liking. For those who care about the TRUTH, here are the plain, unvarnished, scientific facts: [/quote] Nothing I can add to that, mate!

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' post='739291' date='Feb 8 2010, 07:28 PM']That's nothing - you should see the video where he throws a Hiwatt into a stack of puppies!!! That's just..... a blatant disregard of his equipment!!!![/quote]

[quote name='firmo' post='739286' date='Feb 8 2010, 07:20 PM']No but I can buy a spanner for about 50p from Wilko. I use decent gear and if my bass goes flying at an irritating band member at the previous gig i'll always make sure before leaving for a gig that it's all in good working order so it doesn't let me/my band down at a critical moment. Doesn't mean I don't deserve to have my bass.[/quote] I never said I agreed that those who mistreat their possessions don't deserve to own them.

[quote name='firmo' post='739245' date='Feb 8 2010, 06:47 PM']...but not quite as daft as assuming all tools are expensive.[/quote] Perhaps not, but are you aware of the potential damage you can do with a torque wrench that has poor calibration as a result of poor maintenance? I use quality gear and I look after it because I cant afford for it to let me and my band down at a critical moment.

[quote name='Spook' post='739227' date='Feb 8 2010, 06:24 PM']COMPLETE CRAP!! Basses aren't for looking at, they're for PLAYING - if you use them enough, they'll inevitably sustain "Battle scars", no matter how careful you are. Face it - THEY'RE NOTHING MORE THAN A TOOL, the same way a spanner or screwdriver is to a mechanic. Tell me, if you dare, Billy Sheehan's old Precision is any less valid as an instument because it's not been treated like his baby, or for that matter, Rory Gallagher's Strat. At the end of the day looks are completely unimportant IT'S THE SOUND THAT MATTERS!!![/quote] You have a point, but lots of us here go on a journey of buying and selling to find the bass that's right for us personally. Treat your basses like crap and the ever diminishing resale value with each successive purchase will eventually lead you to just about afford a £5 tea chest from ebay. You'll also find mechanics look after their tools VERY carefully, they are expensive and they don't want them letting them down at a critical point. Say what you just said to an F1 mechanic and he will tell you that it's YOU who's talking complete crap.

Steve Hillage - Motivation Radio

[quote name='deathpanda' post='738026' date='Feb 7 2010, 12:57 PM']Seconded. If that's what brash, ugly and selfish all sound like, I fu*king love it.[/quote] Fair enough. To me his tone is the Dan [b]Brown Sound[/b].

I wondered what Bez was doing these days I have to say, the bass line sounds so much better in context, as any good bass line should. Nice work.

Nice post, Mike.

[quote name='Sibob' post='737591' date='Feb 6 2010, 08:32 PM']Ah ok cool! My mate did lend me Zappa's auto-biography, I should get round to reading it Si[/quote] Which one?

[quote name='Sibob' post='737738' date='Feb 6 2010, 11:33 PM'] Si[/quote] Yeah, you're right, I was talking sh*te. I was just on my way out to a gig and my thought process was all manked up I was in mind of using an amp with a guitar. I can make my Tele sound like my Steiny through my POD by messing about with the eg and gain. My Tele sound glorious, my Steiny Spirit has crap pickups and poor tone, but the POD pretty much neutralises the differences. If I really cared, i am sure I could make them sound exactly the same. Sorry, I used to be a guitarist and was passionate about the intrinsic core tone of guitars with amps.

[quote name='Sibob' post='737587' date='Feb 6 2010, 08:21 PM']I only know of his work with Zappa (what else did he do?), and from what I gather, Zappa wrote everything out, and so I can see that Thunes would be embarrassed that people treat him as a genius when he's only really doing what any session/pit musician does nightly. I think Thomas Haake from Meshuggah has a similar outlook, everything lauds him as an amazing drummer, which he is technically, but all he's doing by his own admission, is recreating drum tracks that were often written on computer. Si[/quote] Zappa gave him pretty much free reign on most things. In fact the horn section often complained bitterly to Zappa that Thunes wasn't supporting their solos enough. Zappa got pissed off with them in the end and apparently loved what Thunes did with his music.

One more thing about Scott Thunes, he will always react to claims of his genius that everything he did was at an intermediate level and that any decent bassist could do what he did. He will shout at you and give contradictory evidence most of the time if you tell him he's a genius.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='737551' date='Feb 6 2010, 07:38 PM']Are you there, Nigel? As Jaco used to say: 'It ain't braggin', if you can back your sh*t up.' So please back your sh*t up.[/quote] Done, cocker. ^ Also, bragging is bragging, even if you can back that sh*t up. Bragging isn't generally pretty and it alienates people, like Jaco did.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='737503' date='Feb 6 2010, 06:48 PM']Can you elaborate on why you think Jaco's sound was sh*t? How much Weather Report stuff have you listened to? Why brash, ugly and selfish? Are you stating that he was selfish because he wanted his bass sound to be a main feature of Weather Report? So was JJ Burnel selfish too?[/quote] No, I can't really elaborate. sh*t was the wrong word possibly and I did say it was my opinion, and in my opinion his tone was ugly, I do not like. I suppose his sound fitted with Weather Report, I have heard enough WR (and Jaco) to know it's not for me. I suppose they were THAT sort of band, a bunch of soloists joined together by some themes. I've heard his work with Joni, better but not really my thing either, although she is amazing. He was a very troubled man, with serious mental health issues, and he was a genius on the bass. But his work is not above criticism. He was extremely arrogant, impossible to jam with, and Weather Report was one of the few vehicles that would tolerate that sort of attitude and style of playing. Or so I'm told and have read. Those cats were monsters in their field and were pretty much on an equal footing. That said, I adore Scott Thunes and he can be an anti-social nut case, although a totally honest one with no real agenda other than his and his family's happiness. BUT, his playing, in my opinion, is so much more interesting, sensitive and augmentative of the whole rather than the individual, than Jaco's ever was, [u]in my opinion[/u]. It's easy to see Jaco's genius, he was virtually a soloist and he was totally in your face, you have to actively listen to Scott to spot his personal magnificence within the music he played a part in. Hope that helps.

[quote name='hillbilly deluxe' post='737431' date='Feb 6 2010, 05:39 PM']So, what you are saying is................ Core tone is everything ? [/quote] Ah, I anticipated this you see An electric guitar is an entirely different beast and occupies so much more sonic space, core tone in a leccy guitar is infinitely more important than for a leccy bass.

Interesting Si, and I agree wholeheartedly. The thing is, and I hope I don't piss anyone off and sound like a prick, but I have come to the conclusion that no-one has demonstrated anything useful or constructive about the core tone of an electric bass. It is purely subjective, but people have to justify their (more and more expensive) choices by talking pointless rubbish. In so many years, no-one has gone beyond, "pleasing mid-range honk", "Jaco-like nasal burp", "deep mid-rangy punch", "accents the upper mids", "The lows are 6.3 on the Richter scale", "Lovely top end sizzle", "Superb slap tone". Almost every bass you buy can demonstrate these qualities with the right amplification, speaker box and a bit of eq. The reviews I read in magazines, the tone descriptions I see in the for sale threads, the reviews on Harmony Central are 99% complete bollocks and of no practical use whatsoever. Put my Warwick through a Markbass and it will sound one way, and sound entirely differently if I put it through an SVT. We think we are sophisticated about our tonal requirements, but we know naff all really. We are like people at the local art club discussing Athena posters while thinking we are Brian Sewell. This recent market for "tonally transparent" amps and speaker boxes like Mark Bass are another red herring to get you to spend more money and keep the industry alive. They say (and we say) you can really hear the inherent qualities of the bass. ABSOLUTE UTTER TRIPES! Trust me, buy a Mark Bass rig and all it will do is make you talk total crap about the tone of your 1967 Jazz Bass.

[quote name='Sibob' post='737337' date='Feb 6 2010, 03:52 PM']Ok so, I love the sound of Jazz's and Precisions..[/quote] But really what you are saying is you love the sound of YOUR Jazzes and Precisions. They mostly all sound different to my ears. I think it's now a pointless distinction to make. Your statement is more relevant to thirty or forty years ago. With the vast range of Fenders available, new and old, all Jazzes and Precisions will sound extremely different to each other.