Macko1968

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='180402' date='Apr 19 2008, 12:00 PM']Here's one for you to think about, Macko. Someone on Basschat posts that they are selling a bass you REALLY want on eBay. They have it listed with a BIN of, say... £800. However, they say that a Basschatter can have it for £750, and they'll end the auction early. What do you do? Contact the seller via Basschat or, out of prinicple, hit the BIN? Also - is the seller trying to rip people off on eBay? Or are they just showing some sort of comradeship to Basschat members?[/quote] Well our seller could offer it to BC'ers first. Or choose to reduce the BIN to £750 & allow the fellow BC'er to hit the button, obviously eBay will screw the seller for fees though. There is also the argument that, because the BIN is still available, then the reserve has not been met & technically the bass has not been sold. That is, of course, a very different scenario to this 'ray which was a no reserve auction. In the case of the 'ray, had the auction been pulled after a bid was placed, the seller had already entered in to legal contract of sale. I know eBay's rules preclude either activity but I find the second scenario more objectionable (morally) than the first. I wouldn't say there was any effort to rip anyone off on the price, the market will decide the value of an item - unless the item has been knowingly misrepresented. Indeed I would argue that people will ask more for an item on eBay as it carries additional fees for the seller which BC does not. I'll reiterate that I was not looking for an argument about the rights & wrongs of pulling auctions. The sellers attitude that "I wish to have the benefits of eBay but I have the right to use my own rules" is the issue for me, no-one forced him to use eBay - if he didn't like eBay's rules he can go elsewhere. Again, I did not report him but I have no problem with whoever did - one of those people broke the rules, one didn't. I find it odd that that anyone can defend the miscreant whilst denouncing the complainant.

[quote name='eubassix' post='180381' date='Apr 19 2008, 11:17 AM']Mick (macko68), Not sure why you felt the need to include that outrageous comment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've visited your place (about 8 miles from me) 3 times since 2003: each time at your request as you were thinking of buying a new bass and were interested to know what I might have, either to buy or to see. On each occasion I would have been able to bring about 4 basses as I wouldn't have got any more into the car. So that means each was worth about £6500. ... I recall you buying a Marleaux Straight 4 and later a Lakland 4 (each at around the £700 mark) - and me getting a Tokai Jazz bass from you. I did add a relevant (hopefully) comment to this discussion earlier as I have had experience of ebay removing an auction for stating that an item was advertised elsewhere.[/quote] I am eternally grateful to you Dave for making the wife appreciate that there other blokes out there that love basses more than me. We both know that I've never willingly bought a bass from you, every time it's been with my arm twisted behind my back....... . BTW, a current stock list via Pm would be nice, I have money burning a hole at the moment. See?....you're doing it again!

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='180058' date='Apr 18 2008, 07:14 PM']300 basses bought and sold on eBay and you aren't a dealer! Even if you like 'chopping and changing' by my reckoning that has to be... a bass a fortnight. That's some going. You most certainly have proved your point about sellers rights and you have also confirmed that you understand the rules, without a shadow of a doubt you've done that.[/quote] That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. I know at one stage I had UPS either deliver or collect every day for 9 days & I once bought a Trace T-Bass & sold it without ever unpacking it. I still think Eubassix can beat me though, he must have brought the neck end of £80,000 worth of gear round to our house over the last few years, the wife used to have migraines at the mere mention of his name. I just can't help myself, often I buy stuff just to try it, if I like I keep & if I don't it's straight back out the door. To be honest, I don't want to get in to a scrap over the morals of eBay trading because everyone has an opinion on it & people will never agree. I figure I'd be better spending my time trying to track down a US Bob Glaub & thinking up an excuse for the wife - I guess I could just blame Eubassix.

[quote name='budget bassist' post='179445' date='Apr 18 2008, 02:20 AM']a steinberger If you don't mind how it looks that is.[/quote] My XL2 was a right porker, weighed a bleddy ton.

I'm not a dealer, just like chopping & changing. I wasn't aware I was getting my knickers in a twist either - it's not like I've been using words like "walk a mile in their shoes" or "pious" or using the emoticon. I simply started this thread to make 2 observations, a seller misrepresenting his item & his rights. Some people claimed I was wrong about the sellers rights, a healthy(ish) debate has ensued & eBay have confirmed my understanding of the rules is correct.

[quote name='macko1968' post='180008' date='Apr 18 2008, 05:50 PM']I've only bought & sold over 300 basses on there.[/quote] Should give you a clue.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='179460' date='Apr 18 2008, 07:17 AM']...only if the seller *indicates* that the item is available elsewhere (I appreciate this is the case in the aution we're talking about). The irony is, you're free to sell the item elsewhere as long as you don't mention it in the listing...![/quote] Further quote for eBay's email on the subject. [i]Yes it is very much against eBay's Inappropriate Seller Terms - "Other Binding Bids" policy. You're not allowed to list an item for sale outside of eBay environment, once the said item is put up for sale, or offered for sale, on eBay.[/i] Now, how eBay would identify an item is advertised elsewhere is beyond me, but (technically speaking) the rules actually do preclude someone advertising an item elsewhere - regardless of whether it's mentioned in the advert. I'm not sure it's piety we are seeing here more that some sellers seem to want to have their cake & eat it, leaving bidders at a disadvantage. I doubt many bidders make a bid with the caveat that they "have the right" to remove the bid if they find a better deal elsewhere. One question I would ask though, out of genuine interest, if someone has an item for sale elsewhere they presumably have in mind a price they will take for the item - so why not stick a BIN on the auction or start it at the price they want? Problem solved. A couple of years ago I bid on a custom shop Strat, no reserve auction, only bid of £950 . In the last minute (when you could still do it that late) the seller ended the auction & cancelled my bid. The reason given was the item had been broken or lost. 20 minutes later I get an email from him saying "you can have the guitar for £1300". I told him to use it as a suppository.

Can I just say it was not me that reported it & I am crushed that I didn't win a bass I didn't bid for.

Dougal - a few questions if you will indulge me. 1) What is your full postal address? 2) Do you have a dog? 3) When will you next be out? That 'ray is a thing of beauty, if you get bored of it shoot me a PM.

[quote name='angelboy' post='178728' date='Apr 17 2008, 12:15 PM']There's ebay powersellers that don't abide buy those terms and ebay do nothing because they still get a cut and the system is far to big to police! Who cares! Some you win and some you loose and if the item that you're bidding on you so desperately want then either pay up or get it somewhere else. If the auction is pulled because the item is 'advertised elsewhere' then you have the same opportunity to contact the seller, find out where it's advertised and how much is it advertised for then you can do the deal. Ebay gets their listing fee, the seller gets the amount he's looking for and you get the item you want. You snooze you loose so don't whine on about it. You got beat! If you know what to expect with ebay then it's fair game from both sides. If you don't know what to expect then eventually you'll learn and then maybe you'll accept the way it works. You get the same information at the same time as everyone else so it's up to you to take action. It seems you're quite happy sitting there expecting the deal to come to you for the price you want to pay with little or no effort but then moan and complain when someone else moves in and takes home the result. To tell you the truth, I'm happy there's people like that....[/quote] Who's moaning or complaining? I pointed out that the guy is misrepresenting his item & his rights - which he is, end of story. Now, can you explain to everyone how I got "beat" on a bass I don't intending bidding on & that still has 3 days to go? And thanks for the tips on how eBay works, gosh I've only bought & sold over 300 basses on there, I still have so much to learn. The rules are there so people know what to expect, what other reason do you think they have them for? Perhaps you need to read the whole thread before making yourself look foolish again.

All been & gone I'm afraid. I'm terrible for buying & selling (as Eubassix will testify) & I am currently bassless. I've had issues for a few years with CTS in my left hand & I go through phases of not playing when things are bad. Currently I have a few bob spare, hand is good & I'm gassing for a nice Lakie again. Of the ones in the pictures, the Surine had the best neck, wafer thin, sounded great & was beautifully made - if anyone gets the chance to try one, do it. The JVs were all nice, I had all 4 at the same time, the fiesta red one was the best of the bunch. The Wal was a killer bass, the Alembic similarly so but very heavy. £ for £ though, the Laklands won hands down, unbelievable attention to detail & I'd kill for the green one back.

Just got an email from eBay re. ending listings early. [i]"As such, it is a violation if a seller indicates: - that they have the right to cancel their listing at any time, for any reason. - that their listed item is also for sale simultaneously off eBay (e.g. local market). - that the item was in stock at the time of listing but that it may be out of stock at the time of purchase. - that the item listed may not necessarily be the one that the winning bidder receives upon auction completion. To see eBay's user agreement as implicated within Inappropriate Seller Terms - "Other Binding Bids" policy, copy this link into a new browser window:"[/i]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Warwick-Thumb-Jack-Bruce-Signature-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ150236690537QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Warwick-Thumb-Jack-B...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url] Hot or not?

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='176623' date='Apr 14 2008, 08:25 PM']Of course you are correct, it does cut both ways and I've had people do it to me before... hence I am philosophical about eBay sales and can see both sides Might be worth putting a bid on just to see the headlines in the paper... <insert appropriate newspaper headline about bassist's ars* here> [/quote] Can I just check, how wide is Harrods window? May require two sittings for me.

I wonder how many people who claim the right to end auctions early feel about buyers who cancel bids, I bet matey boy would be seriously pissed off if someone withdrew the only bid with 13 hours left saying they'd bought a similar item advertised elsewhere instead. These things cut both ways. Mind, if anyone bids at that price I'll show my arse in Harrods window.

Lakland Skyline JO Lakland Dudepit Ltd Ed., sold to a guy in Ireland & regretted it ever since.

1983 JV Squier and another I see a pattern forming wait....this one's a 1982 1983 Wal, £800 BIN off eBay ! Surine Esprit S/N 0001 - from Eubasix 14lbs of Alembic Mark King Status Kingbass (an Artist according to Rob Green but with a b/o neck?) 1984 Tokai Jazz, very neck heavy

Here it is, solid schedua body too. God, I was an idiot.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='176511' date='Apr 14 2008, 06:15 PM']Even if you find something, the caveat that an item is advertised elsewhere is something that has always gone unchallenged on eBay added to which even if you don't state it explicitly on eBay you can still advertise your item where you like and you can end your listing without warning at anytime up to the 12hr deadline. [/quote] But that doesn't give anyone "the right", they can do it because a rule is not being enforced but that is not someone's "right". My objection was to his use of the term "right", as if it is enshrined in eBay's rules that he can do this.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='176490' date='Apr 14 2008, 05:58 PM']Like what he said You can advertise and sell it where you like and eBay HATE IT! Essentially they can do very little about it and TBH if you were the one selling you'd want to maximise what you got for your item... it's just annoying when you're the one watching (not this particular item) and someone gazumps you with an 'unofficial' offer by the back door! It cuts both ways [/quote] I've definitely seen an extract from eBays T&Cs that says by joining you agree not to advertise an item on eBay that is advertised elsewhere, the subject came up on the Dudepit a couple of years back. I'll check with eBay & see what they say, should have an answer by 2015 (the year, not the time - you know what eBay are like).

Not to sell it outside of eBay. [url="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/end_early.html"]http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/end_early.html[/url]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Limited-Edition-Musicman-Stingray-Bass-Guitar-2005_W0QQitemZ330228043923QQihZ014QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Limited-Edition-Musi...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url] Another piece of seller's BS, allied to an optimistic opening bid "I have the right to end this auction as also listed elsewhere" - no you don't, read eBay's rules.

<smug mode> Bought one on eBay a couple of years back for £800 on a BIN, flipped it a week later for £1500. A great profit but I really wish I'd kept it, sounded immense.