ianrunci

[quote name='SteveK' date='Jul 1 2008, 07:53 PM' post='230836'] I am assuming that we are all talking about using a fairly decent standard of equipment - in good working order. [b]*You will not get a 5 grand sound out of a £200 rig*[/b] That works both way btw I have heard players get a £200 sound out of a 5 grand rig

lol i wasnt expecting this many replies! i only posted cos i was bored and had only a few minutes befoe realised that i don't remember last time i changed the EQ on my amp. so you guys who are saying that the sound comes from the player... are you saying that if you don't like your tone you're screwed? [b]Not at all, the sound comes with exerience[/b] and when people are saying there's nothing like a precision with a pick, its all in their head? [b]No but thats also a different style as well as a different sound. a precission with a pick can usually be copied by a good player with another bass and a pick[/b] or when they say musicman basses cut through the mix better? and you're trying to say its pointless spending a grand on a custom bass when you can pick one up for £50 off ebay and get the same tone? [b]No because obviously the better the pick ups the easier it is to get a good sound and the better its made the easier it will be to play. Althoughthats not always the case, I have had cheap instruments that were everybit as easy to play as instruments 5 times the cost[/b] i think not.

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='230460' date='Jul 1 2008, 12:32 PM']That's what I say, your 'sound' is a combination of the strings, the bass, cable, amp and speakers. How you play, ie your fingers, how soft or hard your attack, playing position etc, have an affect on that sound, but they're not actually creating it. Change any part of the setup, and you'll change your sound.[/quote] That only applies if you don't have the skill and experience to change the sound using only your experience and technique. Obviously if your playing through a ten watt practice amp you wont get it sound like a bg rig. But i would be pretty suprised if most very experienced players can't get the same sound out of any semi decent instrument through a half decent rig

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='230047' date='Jun 30 2008, 09:03 PM']What? What sort of a conclusion is that? Sorry but I'm not going through nine pages of argument to settle on something so pathetically fluffy as "We're all right in our own way". I'm right and you're wrong, in our own way. How about that?[/quote] but you can't be right if I am can you. So the logical conclusion is I'm right..................IMHO

Ok can we settle on "not definately maybe"

I would have to say based on my own 30 years of experience playing live that its down to the individuals technique. I have heard brilliant players sound brilliant playing a bag of old sh*te through another bag of old sh*te and at the same time I have heard poor musicians sound sh*te through the best gear you can buy. You generally find that most really experienced players can get virtually the same sound no matter what they are using, that would indicate to me that technique is all important. that applies to guitarists as well as bass players

I suppose we will have to accept the fact there is no one answer to the original posters question. Everyone will have their own view and each view will be right in its own way, So the answer must be Replying to Does playing covers sap your imagination and playing? Yes but no

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='229830' date='Jun 30 2008, 04:28 PM']I agree mcgraham. Where I differ from others is that I see that fact as an opportunity (this is not about my wanting to do 10 minute jazz odysseys). If they aren't really listening, why are we pandering to some bizarre collective sense of 'what they want'? If you are going to do covers, do interesting covers, do covers that stimulate AND educate (there are 1,000s), do covers that challenge people a little or a lot but do it knowingly. What I think people should NOT do is to take the top 20 covers of all time and just regurgitate them year on year on year (tweaked or otherwise). Last week I did 'Pick Up The Pieces' by the Average White Band (1974), 'Street Life' by the Crusaders (1979), 'Young Hearts Run Free' (1976), 'For Once In My Life' (1968), 'Knock On Wood' (1978) etc, etc. You know the drill. There must have been a million great (and very popular ) songs that have seen the light of day during the 20 to 30 years that have passed since then and yet we all keep trotting out these pliocene relics. I have this discussion all the time with punters (not AT gigs but in work, social settings etc) and the general consensus is that these types of bands are tired and dated. I also know a lot of people think that these endless tribute bands are a joke without a punchline. I can't argue with them.[/quote] See the problem I have with that is that I would really enjoy doing something new and unusual but everytime we drop a well used tune we get someone complaining that we haven't played it. often its the person who booked us and in the interests of business e.g getting a return gig we reinstate it. You can't really educate people who don't want to be educated. You will always get a couple of people in the crowd that would love something new but the vast majority do in actual fact want the same old songs over and over again. Lets face it the majority of people at weddings and parties will be out in a club dancing to computer generated sh*te the following week. How can you musically educate people like that? I bet everyone in a cover band has been asked at some poin t can they play something by someone like Take that or westlife or even the spice girls. I have been asked numerous times while playing in a guitar based rock covers band if we know Heaven or Boys of summer by DJ Sammy And it could be worse, you have trotted out several tunes from the 70s but there are still cover bands out there playing fifties rock n roll

[quote name='simondee' post='229828' date='Jun 30 2008, 04:28 PM']guitar hero made me want to join a band again. they're a force for good, and can also help bands actually make some cash from songs that would otherwise just be pinched off bittorrent. I guess it's like saying that footie games prevent kids from having a kickabout outside. And even if you're a proper muso, completing DragonForce on expert is one hell of an achievement...[/quote] Well look at the England team and I think that one answers itself, You don't see many kids kicking a ball about these days, they are all in their bedrooms looking pasty faced heh heh

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='229733' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:23 PM']Agreed but two wrongs don't make a right. Some musicians and I () were discussing this on Saturday (we were playing a wedding and the thing was running late (never!!!) so we had time to kill and we were discussing the 'give them what they want' philosophy. The question was asked 'how many 'functions' have you gone to as a guest (not as a player) where there was band playing'. The average amongst the 5 of us was one every two years. So, we asked, how can anyone even begin to know what the audience 'wants' when they are a, never asked and b, guaged from only 4 gigs a decade per punter? Is there some sort of mass hysteria where if a crowd exceeds 12, it functions like the Borg Collective and only wants 'Ain't Nobody', 'Respect' and 'Son of a Preacher Man'? We should be told. Personally, I think we are deluding ourselves and selling our audiences short with this stuff (but, then again, you knew I thought that, didn't you).[/quote] Well personally I think they know what they are getting when they book a band. We have our complete songlist on our website. When someone books us for a wedding I presume they know what they are getting. If they wanted an original band I don't suppose they would book us in the first place. Also its a business as well and I have yet to come accross a successful business that doesn't give the public what they want. I don't see it as my job to musically educate the public. If I did I would no doubt be teaching them completely different concepts than say you would for instance. Its all relative to individual choice I suppose. However I am pretty certain that anyone booking us for a wedding would much rather have us play the usual standards than give them our version of a spinal tap jazz odyssey. That would be a comfortable 10 minutes

[quote name='allighatt0r' post='229745' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:41 PM']I think the games are great entertainment, but in no way a substitute for good old hard skin producing learning. It's been a common school of thought for years: The world is, and has been (since "back in my day") dumbing down. Convenience breeds laziness and stupidity. I love the game myself, I wish I could afford a copy But i agree that it's probably making some kids not bother learning the real thing. Then again, surely it must be encouraging others to pick up the real thing and become [i]real[/i] rock stars?[/quote] Thats a possibility I suppose although I think thats where the laziness kicks in heh heh. Easier to play a game

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='229717' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:07 PM']I think it does, quite regularly. People are out there watching bands and then quickly become aware that they are seeing the same thing again and again and eventually stop going and stay at home with Cds, DVDs and YouTube. So the audience in 2008 is not the same audience as in 2005; they have all gone home to their iPods. As a musician and music fan who spends 100s of hours and 1000s of pounds a year on music, I am amazed at how rare it is to see something that I want to go out to see/hear. I think this dumbing down is undermining the potential of live music and is, in the long run, counter-productive....[/quote] I wouldn't say anything ever changes on the cover band curcuit. Its been going on for years. Since the dance bands of the 40s and 50s through to the dance hall bands of the 50s and 60s and the club scene in the 70s and 80s. Cover bands are just a different alternative to a DJ, I can't see that ever changing. And personally I would rather see musicians get the work rather than DJs

Over the past few years guitar bands have slowly made their way to the top after years of computer generated music. I fear we are in for another computer generated reign soon. I have noticed that a lot of kids now are playing virtual guitars and virtual drums on the x-boxes now whereas before they might of picked up a real guitar. I bought my son and daughter Squire strats and marshall combos hoping I could get them interested in playing. My daughter is now having lessons at school although I doubt she will get very far with it as she has Cerebal Palsy in both arms and legs, She's only 10 but bless her at least she is having a go. My sons guitar and amp are covered in dust as he is to enthralled with the virtual instruments on his 360. I think these games might lead to a decline in the amount of new players a few years from now. What worries me is that he really thinks he is playing music as opposed to using it as a controller to play a game.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='229694' date='Jun 30 2008, 01:39 PM']I'm glad I wasn't the one to introduce the McDonalds analogy. [/quote] No I think it was me earlier in the conversation Unfortunately thats the way life is now, people like convenience. I doubt it will change

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='229165' date='Jun 29 2008, 06:34 PM']Oh right. It must be just coincedence then. The Itchy Feet I was in was based more around Eccles, but the singer when I joined had previously been in my other band, so I was "headhunted" . We split at the end of 1995, but it wouldn't surpise me if there are lots more bands with the same name. May have asked you before but, living in Bury, have you seen a band called Steve Ferringo and The Top Entertainers? Well worth a night out for. The drummer was in Itchy Feet with me, and the bass player (also an Iain) is a friend too.[/quote] Can't say I have although I have only been in Bury for Three years. I'm originaly from Clayton in East manchester I moved up here when I married my wife. If your from north Manchester though I would be suprised if I haven't come accross you somehwere. Then again maybe I have just heard the band name through an agent at some point

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='229157' date='Jun 29 2008, 06:23 PM']Spot on there mate. Perhaps we move in the same musical circles [/quote] I think Ive just heard the band name banded about, possibly by a guy calle Mke Eaton Dykes. Me and him and my brother used to host a jam night in Middleton for years, first at the nook and then at the Railway.

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='229145' date='Jun 29 2008, 06:13 PM']Good old Windle. Still got the leaking roof in the dressing room? We played there some months back when it was torrential outside, and it wasn't far off that in the dressing room too! They also still have a sticker on the mirror in there from the band I was in abour 15 years ago ("Itchy Feet"). It just shows how often these places are [b]really[/b] cleaned. [/quote] Probably did, there were lots of stickers as per usual. Itchy feet, now why does that name ring a bell? you wouldn't be from the north area of Manchester would you? like Middleton or something?

Think the earliest record of me plaing that I have that remains is a demo our punk band did in 1979 at a studio i Didsbury Manchester. Its got three tracks on it. The bass player from that band is dead now as is the studio engineer that recorded it. The tapes a bit warbly but still plays

Hd a good one last night in St Helens at Windle Labour Club, The club was nice, people were warm and friendly and the dancefloor was packed. And as an added bonus it was a cash pickup for a change. They even had a resident trio playing between our sets, keboards, drums and a singer. Not too many clubs left that do this.

I only ever take one bass, I do take a spare lead guitar in case I snap a string during a particularly expresive bout of bending but as far as the bass is concerned I have never snapped a string on one in my life and the eq on the warwick gets me any sound I want whether it be funk, jazz, soul or rock so I can't be arsed setting up another one just for people to look at. If people have lots of expensive basses they mght as well have them there so they can use them. Not much point in buying expensive instruments just to sit them in a bedroom. Its like buying a porche and sitting in it in the garage but never taking it out on the road

We are still using par cans although thats only cos it would mean spending money to upgrade and we are a bit tight We are only a four piece and we use 8 Par 64s side on, 8 Par 56 on the floor (2 each) and behind the drummer we have a goal post system with 8 par 56s, 6 Par 36 pin spots, two scanners. We also have 4 moving heads on the floor behind us for secial fx depending on the size of the enue and the fee we are on. The drummer plays with a click from a laptop which also plays all the keyboard parts, we have all this midi's up to two NJD midi controllers. The floor cans are pluged into an NJD floor controller. To be honest unless your playing large corporate functions and weddings a lot I would think all you need are 4 par 56s on either side of the stage. You could run them through a floor controller like a Ryger or something

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227213' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:28 AM']That as never been my point. My point is why do we all (collectively) collude in this nonsense - its not the money because the punters would pay that for any covers band. My point is why THOSE covers again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (isn't that a Quo tune?). S'laziness.[/quote] I think this is down to the lack of suitable material for partying and dancing to over the years. I mean after soul and disco up to the middle of the 80s, most of the dance stuff after that is sequencer, drum machine, sample based and isn't really suitable for a band to play. The majority of people aren't into having original bands playing music at their wedding or birthday party, its a fact of life. They book a cover band because its the nearest thing they can get to a disco without actually having a disco. We have to remember these punters aren't musicians and are mainly ignorant when it comes to the technicallities of music. Its like asking a couple to have some mad artistic photographer do their wedding pics in some crazy arty style. They want simple things at ther wedding that they can remember and that will ensure the majority of the guests from 10 to 90 will enjoy dancing to

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227199' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:18 AM']Didn't he work with Jean Luc Ponty? I recall he had an Ibanez Artist guitar. I remember becasue I had the same one (let it go and have regretted it ever since).[/quote] Yeah he did quite a lot with Ponty, He was in Manhatten transfer for a few years too, other things he's done are stuff like the Streamline album with Lenny White, Marcus Miller and Chaka Khan, He's played with Stanley Clarke, Steve Gadd, Jaco, and loads more. He does mainly TV theme stuff now and a few movies although he has just released a new album. He did play an artist for a while, he has his own signature guitar now which if I'm honest looks appalling. but he is a really nice down to earth bloke considering he's one of the best Jazz Fusion session men in the world

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='226631' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:43 PM']PM'd What I have learned from playing this stuff is that the Latin American music scene in the widest sense is like the occidental music scene - Latin music consists of as many genres as a western music. We all know (or think we know) Bossa Nova, samba and salsa. But there are hundreds of sub-genres. Argentinan Tango (which I love), Brazillian Axe (pronounced 'ashay'), pagode, baiao, samba duro, guaguanco, Cuban son, merengue, songo, mambo, Timba, bolero, charanga, cha cha cha, Mangue Beat, Lundu, Afoxê, Carimbo, Maxixe even Lambada ... the list goes on and on and on. It really is a lifetimes work to study this stuff. But don't let that put you off - some of this sh*t is fantastic! Los Angeles 'Ozomatli' are great fun (plenty on Youtube but some of it is moving into hip-hop territory). Brazil's Gilberto Gil (there is a great DVD called 'Acoustico' that is affordable on Amazon Marketplace -Arthur Maia on acoustic bass guitar) Astor Piazolla - anything he did is magic! You HAVE to listen to Cachao or Buena Vista although., be warned, Cubans don't like the BVSC as hey think it is misrepresenting Cuban music and is, in their eyes, old fashioned (like Diana Krall or Stacy Keny as a representative of comtemporary jazz) Other great Brazillian artists I like include Marisa Monte, Maria Bethânia (great voice) singer/songwriters Chico Buarque, Milton Nascimento, Caetano Veloso (Maria Bethania's brother), Ivan Lins, Djavan (great songs), João Bosco, Aderbal Duarte. There are also the Latin Jazz people - Airto Moriera, Flora Purim, Hermeto Pascoal, Machito, Ray Barretto, Michel Camilo (already mentioned), Egberto Gismonti and 1970s Chick Corea. There are also popular acts like Falamansa who are great fun although a bit one dimensional. And then, not Latin but often seen in a similar light, there's Nuevo Flamenco from Spain - that's a whole new world altogether! There is so much stuff out there for people to enjoy. Cover bands? Humbug!![/quote] yeah but you can only enjoy it if you like it. Talking of Chick Corea a friend of mine played with him. He's a guitar player called Jamie Glaser, he's played with all the greats, he's a brilliant player, used to give me lessons over MSN messenger a couple of years ago