Antiloco

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1357049199' post='1916719'] I injured myself and wasn't able to play in my band for a while. They recruited someone to cover who was a 'better' player than me. More technical, busier, added a slap solo in one song etc. When I recovered the band welcomed me back with open arms and a couple of them said it was good to have me back because I was a 'better' player for them and my ability, timing, technique etc suited them more. The drummer (who is quite technical) in particular said how pleased he was to have me back. In this case 'better', from a technical perspective, meant 'worse' [/quote] I doubt he was better than you technically if the others prefer you. The only way to know would have been to make the both of you play the same line. Plus that technique without a brain is pretty useless anyway...

[quote name='WinterMute' timestamp='1357049228' post='1916720'] Style over substance? Sure, thats a fair description of elements of the music industry. If you don't like it then don't do it, but don't slag someone off for going ahead and wearing the silly costumes and learning the dances and playing the bass that suits the look, that's entertainment. [/quote] There's absolutely no problem in wanting to be an entertainer. The irritating moment begins when the clown not only fools himself but tries to convince others of his artistic integrity.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357047814' post='1916687'] But if someone is creating something new who decides if its right or not? [/quote] Nobody and that's partly the problem. Hence gangnam style is the most played tune on the radio right now.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1357047992' post='1916692'] All I know is this Re. better or worse - if I play/practise I get better , if I don't play or practise I get worse. And re. knowledge/skill being unimportant when it comes to art........ you can't break the rules or push the boundarys uness you know what they are to start with. [/quote] Exactly. So why are there people out there that demand recognition when they haven't finished their homework? Just because art is subjective? That's the real lack of humbleness to me.

The correct amount of control would be the amount necessary to get you through a musical piece decently. It's a fact that everyone can't play everything otherwise we wouldn't have students. Who measures what a student needs to improve? Well...someone with a greater amount of control aka a teacher. But music is not about control...or is it?

The questioning is not technique related although a proper technique will always be needed to the style you intend to play. Even punk or nirvana. Maybe the real question is: is it possible to be regarded as better than somebody else in music? Is everything subjective? And if not what would be a correct way to measure someones level? The amount of control of the instrument is the only parameter that comes to mind....all the others are a matter of taste. It's a hard question.

I've been into several forums now where there seems to be a tabu around talking about someone being better or worse in musical situations. I wonder what the debate climate looks like here in bass chat so I put the discussion on the table: Is it possible to be better or worse than anyone in art? Are we all the same? Is this too subjective to measure? Isn't this thinking curling the way for laziness to take advantage of people with the will to grow? Etc, etc...

[quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1357006693' post='1916378'] Firstly, I do not mean to be offensive in anything I say, but I'm not going to sugar coat it. I respect your opinion, but as someone who pays the bills (as a student, so not fully professional yet) here are my two cents worth. Talk to Janek Gwizdala about this and try and tell him that he's not a "true musician" for saying that he "wouldn't turn up to a gospel or pop gig with his signature Fodera". Just because someone values the image part of music AS WELL as the aural side doesn't make them any less of a musician, just more aware of their target audience. I'll give a comparable example, you're playing a Jazz gig on NYE at an upmarket establishment, what do you wear? Do you wear your ripped jeans and t short because you're a classic rock guy (hypothetically of course!) or do you adapt to the gig and suit up? I know which of person would be sent home and which person would be invited back to play again (if the music is at the same high standard with both people of course!) If you're going to take the approach "f*** the music industry", gett ready for it to f*** you, because you're going to struggle to make a penny when you're not adapted to play the game by someone else's rules. You don't see an actor kicking off because they can't us the same accent for each part they play. The predjudice exists, so either adapt and learn what the public/your employer/your audience sees as "appropriate" to your gig, or disappear with it. Imagine if Pino played all his stuff with John Mayer on a Fodera, all the notes would still be right, but the whole image of a 60s Blues Rock outfit would be wrong, and he would be told to play something else, or leave (Janek had a similar experience recently with a pop act telling him that he had a gig but needed a precision to play) Like it or not (I personally don't like getting called for my markbass gear etc by the way!), you have to learn that this is how the industry works now, and has for years. Sorry for the long rant. [/quote] Janek Gwizdala?....*giggles* I played for a living more than ten years of my life so I know what Iam talking about. I left that stinky world voluntary, as a student you're getting into it now so it's hard for me to make my point clear due to the differences in experience but thanks anyway.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1357003767' post='1916354'] I've toured Sweden from east to west, Gothenburg to Stockholm, from 2007 till next week when I'm back over for a week or so. Funnily enough I borrowed a 5'er from a friend of mine to play Scandinavium Arena to, I should imagine you've come across this venue in your travels In short, you're talking absolute nonsense! I suspect you know it as well. [/quote] I dont really know what you are talking about anymore? My point is that there's a disgusting fender and vintage fetish going on here and that showing up to an audition with a sixer would be a suicide unless its your own band. I never said fivers didn't exist. Or that people already in the business never used them.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1356979386' post='1916067'] I'll add here that I've played around Sweden extensively and know of some of the best working bass players I've come across using 5 stringers, almost exclusively. There's just no truth in that they don't. Silly... [/quote] You obviously played here during the 90's. That's not the way it looks here now. It doesn't sound as you've lived in Stockholm either. Who cares anyway, music is lost to the "entertainers" a long time ago.

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1356956247' post='1915503'] Sorry, but I think your attitude is pathetic! You clearly have some issues...... I don't crave recognition and I'm not lazy, but I do try to better myself and I do give a damn about my playing. I play for my own enjoyment and to entertain others. How does this fit into your logic? I've met people like you before, pretentious $%@#* who think that anyone without a music degree shouldn't be allowed to enjoy music. [/quote] You failed to get the message. It has nothing to do with degrees. And by the way a person who doesn't see the world with your eyes doesn't need to have issues, it's just a different opinion, nothing more nothing less.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1356953898' post='1915460'] Inti, you seem to have a very elitist attitude. You'll probably play as many gigs in a year as I do in a week with that approach. Seems like it's a win win situation for both of us. [/quote] Absolutely! One tries to better his field. The other doesn't give a damn but craves recognition anyway... Ironic isn't it? As I said before: laziness and lack of skills desperately searches for justification. Call me whatever you want, nazi, elitist, fascist, snob... I love music and I'm really tired of people raping this art in the name of entertainment.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356952871' post='1915435'] Don't feed the troll, folks... [/quote] We know were you stand. No need to be offensive in an individual manner.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1356950470' post='1915404'] What a ridiculously arrogant and pretentious post! Why on earth can't a musician be an entertainer? It's art, and art is there to be appreciated/enjoyed, and if you are appreciating/enjoying something then it is entertaining. [/quote] There's an enormous difference between entertaining as a clown with an instrument in your hands and entertaining as the natural result of people enjoying your creativity. One is a whore, the other an artist. But then again laziness and lack of skills will always try to justify themselves. The repugnantly low musical level we see all around is a direct result of this mediocre and confused mentality.

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356948117' post='1915363'] I get ya lad. We simply have different opinions on the subject. Nothing wrong with that at all. [/quote] One of you is a musician while the other is an entertainer. Simple. Entertainers don't like the idea though so they think they are musicians...hence the confusion. A true musician doesn't approach music from an economical or an image-fixated standpoint. A musician cares about sound and creation, not how many chicks he'll have because he looked cool or the check he may get for moving his ass behind a fender. f*** the music industry.

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356939938' post='1915294'] I don't get why supposedly professional musicians place aesthetics above tonal quality. If you need to look good get the appropriate haircut and rags. If sounding and playing to the best of your ability requires or is enabled by an extended range instrument then there no reason why one shouldn't be used. As you said the punters won't know the difference therefore the choice of instrument should be left to the person best suited to make the call, ie. the musician him/herself. [/quote] Bravo.

Thank you! I have used some of your ideas with my students with great results.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1356893726' post='1914852'] I would. If I got a phonecall tomorrow asking me to tour with some god awful act like Nicki Minaj, I'd do it. The money would be insane and I'd certainly have some stories to tell. Would you miss out on that opportunity? [/quote] I would and have thanked no to several money oriented acts that display a lack of respect for the musical art. That's the main reason I studied pedagogy after my musical studies. I couldn't stand the horrible level seen in popular music. I despise most the modern music industry has to offer. Move your ass and be a clown after years of studying and sacrifice? No thanks it's disgusting. Kudos for all of you who have a great band to play in where you can develop as a human being not concerned about paying the rent.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1356885488' post='1914716'] Surely he achieved his objective then. IMO, his best band was Andy Pyle, Graham Walker and Vic Martin. All great players and all required to fade into the wall paper for a fatter pay cheque than most of us here have seen in years. That's life. [/quote] See, that's the problem right there... I can't see why anyone with some knowledge of the world would like to play music for the sake of money.

Rush Hemispheres Allan Holdsworth City Nights Chaka Khan Clouds Jaco Pastorious Continuum ... And many, many more

I bought it in Stockholm and its as far as I know the only one sold here. Instrument snobbery is mortal over here.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356864503' post='1914346'] Not specifically, no - unless the folks who have posted on this thread that they understand why it happens are all from the North East, which I don't think they are. I've highlighted the important part of your quote. [/quote] Aaaaahhhh a limited entertainer! ...play for me slave! Play!

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1356864277' post='1914339'] Not just Sweden, I've seen this in local jams right here. I remember when I first started playing bass around 2000 and thought the best way to get myself out there was turning up to jams where I'd previously played guitar. My first bass was a cheap, but pretty good quality Yamaha RBX and I overheard disparaging comments from the resident P playing bassist about 'modern' basses. I didn't get to play that night. [/quote] Of course you didn't get to play! You hadn't seen the light you know...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356863942' post='1914334'] As has been suggested elsewhere, there's nothing idiotic or moronic about it. [/quote] In my world it's totally idiotic and moronic to be limited by looks in a sounding art form. People who favor looks over sound and claim to be musicians are certainly more entertainers than artists. Is it so much to ask to take music seriously?....clearly it is.

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