drTStingray

3 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

Did your proper USA sterling have the same slim neck too 🙂

The only neck type on the US Sterling is the narrow version. As that bass also has a 5 bolt neck joint and one extra fret (goes to high F - 22 frets), it was completely different from the Stingray with 21 frets, 6 bolt neck joint and wider profile. There was a narrower SLO Special neck available on a Stingray but also 6 bolt and 21 frets (as opposed to the version on the US Sub). 

The Stingray Special has 22 frets, a 5 bolt neck joint and the wider profile. 

All that said, I don’t know how Musicman achieve what they do with their necks but they are simply incredibly playable, slick and have a profile which is, IMO, a combination of a flat curve (11 in radius except the Classic series at 7.5 in) with (on the Stingray 4), a 43 mm width at the nut and rolled edges - the latest Specials have the added roasted maple and the slickest finish you could imagine - a lot of this is down to the level of hand finishing applied in the build. 

The main differences with the SBMM models is standard of hardware (which is different for the higher priced ones compared with the Subs).

In terms of sound, because they’re all covering the same design concept, there are similarities, but like with a comparison of P or J basses across a vast range of price, there are differences. I think some of the SBMMs have ceramic pick ups (but I’m not up on the differences). The SBMM models provide great basses at the price points. 

The US basses these days are into the exquisite sort of playing experience. It’s also worth bearing in mind the US Sterling is essentially a 4 string version of the 1992-2008 SR5 - my 2003 SR5 remains my favourite 5 string - part of that is to do with the sound available, which is influenced by the ceramic pick up and series/parallel /single coil switchability. 

@dmccombe7 the SBMM SB14 is, as has been indicated, an offshore version of the US Sterling - been out of production for some time but do pop up used occasionally. The main difference (apart from hardware) is the body is, IIRC basswood (it is normally ash on the US Sterling). However that’s no bad thing, the Bongo bass normally has a basswood body and sounds great. These are worth looking at if you find one. That said, US Sterlings pop up used quite regularly. 
 

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

Yes that sounds like it. So a US EBMM Sterling bass rather than a MM Sterling Ray34 if i picked that up correctly.

Dave

Yeah that is it basically - I think they’re still available new but they do pop up occasionally used.

They did a version in the ‘Classic’ series of basses (Classic Sterling) for a year or two from 2010 - these are very rare and apart from all the deluxe bits like figured maple neck etc, they didn’t have the series/parallel/single coil switch - I think the pick up was also alnico. A similar US Sub Sterling was also produced in the early 2000s - done at the time the US Sub Stingrays were done. 

4 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I worked in the Drug & Alcohol service for 15 years - there's lots of evidence that using recreational drugs exacerbates existing MH problems.

As an example as Cannabis got stronger so there has an increase in MH issues. In the 80s there were virtually no Cannabis users in MH services, now there are thousands.

Jaco's MH issues didn't surface till he met Joe and joined Weather Report. Prior to joining he didn't even drink.

I agree it’s a known fact that rec drug use can exacerbate pre-existing mental health conditions - it also creates behavioural issues in many, which I think is what you’re getting at. it’s known to interfere with treatment of MH conditions. I think where we differ on this is Jaco immediately became world famous after he joined Weather Report (I’d never heard of him before that and didn’t buy his solo work until much later) - one of the issues with bipolar is having delusions around ‘grand thoughts’. Where Jaco differed from most is he was already considered one of (if not) the best in the world (from the Heavy Weather album and Birdland especially) - with a mental health condition, the outcome should not be surprising. I agree the rec drug use may have exacerbated a condition and behaviour.

However I think it’s wholly wrong to focus on the negatives on this when the body of music is so good (and for me, it’s been part of a shaping of my own bass style which wouldn’t be there without it). That’s why I’m so pleased the documentary focuses on the positives. 

Some members of almost every well known band from the era of my formative youth (say 68 - 78 and even before (back to the Shadows and beyond)) have either had problems from rec drug or alcohol abuse (or other issues) - however the fact I know it’s there is one thing, but I don’t feel inclined to demonise the entire industry because of it (or Joe Zawinul). It’s extremely negative and unnecessary.

Handling fame (and falling from it) and the excessive strains of touring (just one angle) are extremely difficult psychologically for many - if you already have a mental health problem that’s even more difficult.  
 

34 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

Don't forget to thank Mr Zawinul for introducing Jaco to Cocaine which caused his downfall.

Really? There is an issue with recreational drug use interfering with treatment for mental illnesses, but my dear old mum had bipolar and never went near a recreational drug in her life. Her behaviour was at times as outrageous and loopy as Jaco’s - although far fewer people saw it. 

We should beware conflating recreational drug usage and mental illness, and also demonising people for drug issues (there are plenty of people with gambling, alcohol and other addictions which also ruin lives). 

Im also very dubious of viewing these matters as greatly important when there are far more positives - after all some of the great composers of the classical genre had mental health issues. 
 

On 10/07/2021 at 12:47, owen said:

 

Thanks for posting this - what a positive documentary.

Jaco suffered from what we would now call bipolar disorder which, for anyone who is a relative or close friend of someone with this, will know that, as for all forms of mental illness it can be supremely hard work with that sort of relationship. I’m afraid that people complaining about this is really discriminatory in the same way as complaining about other disabilities or people’s sex, age and other illnesses. I’m sure if it were now there would be far greater support for someone like Jaco. 
 

That he was a genius on bass should not be in dispute - I learned so much from him (and Alan Spenner, Leo Lyons, Jack Bruce, Louis Johnson, Bernard Edwards - more recently Jamerson, Dunn, Babbitt - in fact an absolute mammoth of a list right up to the current day - but Jaco’s work (also as a writer) really moves me - when Two Views of a Secret was played on the video attached it almost moved me to tears - fabulous! 

I also am a great fan of Henning (and was from first seeing him at the beginning of the 70s on DB with Oscar P - usually on the tele) - there have been many jazz players I’ve admired - but Jaco taught me to groove on electric bass (as did most of my other influences), followed by the note selection and patterns, voicings to make things interesting (even the most mundane) - there’s a mass of truth in Zawinul’s input to the documentary about his view of Weatyer Report - I have heard other stories of Jaco idolising him and finding it hard to gain praise from him - especially with his solo stuff - so good to hear Zawinul say in such positive terms what he thought of Jaco and his music. 

Jaco’s tone was pretty well unique at the time and his accuracy staggering on fretless (Pino - another influence - took this approach as well but added his own flavour). I can say in 1980 I was really after copping some of Jaco’s tone and groove (and Pino’s)!! Though I didn’t own a fretless (yes a Stingray) till 2010!!!  

4 hours ago, alexa3020 said:

I’ve recently purchased my first ‘pre loved’  bass - a musicman stingray. I bought it off a chap who trades a lot of vintage guitars. During the purchase, the thought did cross my mind - what if this is fake? 
So I did my research and I’m as confident as I can be that it’s the real deal - but I’m no expert.

Probably unlikely, but It occurs to me that if someone knows what they’re doing, they could take some of the hardware off a broken bass, add it to a cheaper body and neck, then sell it off as the real deal. Particularly a P bass for example.

I basically checked that everything looked correct (bridge, neck, backplate, serial number, battery compartment, etc). The bass in question is in the link below:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ernie-ball-Musicman-Stingray-bass-4string-3EQ-with-original-hardcase-/384268166122?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Does this type of thing worry anyone else? Was there anything else I could or should have done before purchasing? I should add I did try before I bought and it played beautifully and sounded great (so perhaps it’s irrelevant).

I will probably buy some more used basses in the future so it would be good to know if there are any other checks you can do

thanks

Alex

Looks totally correct to me (another check is to open the hood and look at the pre amp and board). People have been known to swap them out but the pick up looks ok to me as far as can be seen. 

If you visit the EBMM forum site there is a sticky link to a serial number checker - type in your number (which links to the manufacturer’s database) and it will give you the build details. You can link to this from the main EBMM site as well (possibly under FAQs.

Another resource for all MM basses (including pre EB) is  

http://www.musicmanbass.global/

There are similar resources for other types of instruments including Fender - here is a good example

http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html

Simple answer - change to a Stingray Special HH (much lighter - and larger belly contour and changed forearm contour 😏)

However - my 2007 SR4HH is still one of my favourite basses - even though I’ve got the same bass as a Stingray Special as well!! 

On 30/06/2021 at 14:35, XM Ian said:

Afternoon all,

So, I'm getting the gear ready to go back to practice and gig when it's advisable. I love my SB14 - the narrow neck and middly sound (but with the 3 way active EQ) just works for me and my style.

But... The bottom E string is waaay louder than the other strings.

I have already tried :

- dropped that side of the pickup away form the string - but that decreases the volume of the A string as well.

- rolled off the EQ in the helix below about 80 Hz - also, affects the A string.

- got a set of heavier strings on order (currently using 40-95, ordered 50-105) and I'll leave the 95 on when I change)

So other things I am thinking about.:

- see if there's adjustable pole pieces in the stock MM/Sterling pickup. MM haven't got back to my query after a week so....

- fit a new pickup with adjustable poles.

But, Is there anything else I can be trying?

advTHANKSance,

ian

----

I think it’s likely to be caused partially by the string gauge set you have there. The strings Stingrays ship with are 100,  80, 65, 45. Have you tried resetting your EQ to flat (both onboard and outboard?) also - and then starting from there, perhaps with the controls on the bass guitar first? 

Another issue with this design of bass is that the string heights (as well as the pick up pole heights) should follow the radius of the fingerboard (in other words the A and D saddles should be slightly higher than the E and G, with compensation for the different string sizes) - people often set these completely flat to each other which not only affects the height of the strings over the fretboard but also the height they cross the pick up. You say you’ve already adjusted the pick up so that’s covered (the Musicman bass factory set up dimensions are on their website under FAQs). 

I once used a set of strings of the gauge you have on a Stingray - I didn’t have the problem you’re experiencing but I did find the bass sounded much more 80s sounding, especially for slap (somewhat thinner) - although the G was thinner than yours (possibly 35). 

Finally some string makes do tend to accentuate the sound of the lower strings as well, in my experience, whilst anyone playing in a band or situation where one or more players fills all the sonic space (eg guitarists/ drummers/ keyboardists), then you may have to be careful about whereabouts you play on the fretboard/which octave you play in to avoid the bass sound simply mixing in and being lost. In some cases this is what happens when several otherwise bedroom players play in a band and haven’t learned the skills of band/ensemble playing (or find it difficult to play hearing anyone else but themselves). 

A good example of choosing whereabouts to play on the fretboard is Dave Swift in the Jools Holland Orchestra - Jools Holland is a renowned musician but also play boogie woogie piano on some pieces - this has a busy left hand bass on piano. Dave often plays in a higher octave where Jools is playing the heavy boogie left hand. 

I hope you find changing your strings helps. The SB14 is effectively a budget Sterling bass, which differs from the Stingray in having a ceramic magnet pick up, series /parallel/single coil setting as well as a three band EQ. I think the SB14 has a mahogany body which will accentuate lows a little. However the Sterling (along with the Stingray 5 (early 90s to 2008 model)) can be made to cut through mixes very effectively as well as having great flexibility with the pick up settings in combination with the EQ - they also respond greatly to whereabouts you pluck the string, so a significant amount of this is in the hands of the player. 

Finally it may be worth checking the pick up is functioning correctly - you can certainly find out if all the poll pieces are functioning by pressing strings against each individual one - they should click. If it’s not then Sterling would probably do a replacement on an exchange basis or you could go for one of the aftermarket one. 

Best of luck with getting it how you want. 
 

She’s great - I especially like that cover of the Wham song.

Im also a big fan of Juliaplaysgroove, on You Tube.

I like the way they take modern pop songs and play awesome bass parts to - has actually turned me on to some of the artists covered eg Dua Lipa and Anderson Paak. 

On 22/06/2021 at 16:11, KiOgon said:

What have I always said about preamps?

Stay at least a field away from them!

Good luck Jack and well done Gary!

Unless it’s in a decent bass with a proven track record (I haven’t owned a passive bass since 1980 and have never once had a problem with a preamp!! 😂)

Well done @Happy Jack - for patience and perseverance - even though that body colour and figured top are really alluring I think I’d have given up or chucked it away in frustration way before 😧

I believe the latest one said this weekend for delivery. Still undecided but I guess this weekend may be the last chance. Do you think Sims could do LEDs with colours to match the two on the bass? Maybe that really would stretch the batteries!!

If you’re going to have a slightly maverick,  slightly OTT bass maybe that is another thought? 

On 24/06/2021 at 10:33, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I was having a good think about this on the dog walk this morning.

On one hand you could conclude that the inclusion of the Alpha/Omega is a sales gimmick and I think whichever way you look at it, that will at least partly be the case for the Dark Ray. You may also reach the view that on paper, taking into the account the success of the Nolly/Darkglass/Dingwall collaborations of recent years, that there could indeed be some mileage in it.

My head also finds it slightly odd that the Granite Stone version is the Limited Edition. Personal choice I know, but I think an all gloss black/roasted neck or maybe a gloss black ‘midnight sparkle’ with MHS might look a bit more special. Perhaps use matt black without MHS as standard? A moot point anyway, it is what it is now - and I hate that expression 😂.

The burning issue for me, is how that two band Darkglass pre-amp differs from the standard MM pre-amp. I think most of us know what the Alpha/Omega effects are going to sound like, but what will it sound like in standard mode through my rig? 🤔

Waffle aside, I thought the Patrick Hunter video was quite good. It’s what I want from a demo. Same riff played over and over with different settings. It would have been nice to know what the signal path was, but that’s being picky. I also applaud him for the criticism regarding it not having a mid pot. How many manufacturers are going to let someone get away with that and put it on their web site? Old school ‘Ray users will know what they can get out of a vintage Stingray 2 band EQ. For me it’s bass full on, bit of treble and adjust the rest on my amp = smokin’. I can’t help wondering whether Hunter is one of these people who just doesn’t like 2 band ‘Rays or is it because the Darkglass pre-amp is slightly different somehow?

My head says it’s a non-issue. My fretting hand won’t thank me for ordering one. I’ve sold three ‘Rays for precisely that reason, but I can’t help but be intrigued by it all.

56 left and counting….

 

At least one more person on Talkbass has ordered one - have you given in and pressed the button….. 😀 I haven’t but quite like the stone coloured one now - I can imagine it being great fun - as I’ve increased in age and relative decrepitude 😩 I’ve moved from one finger per fret to simandl at the bottom end of the fretboard for repetitive parts (like rock and roll lines like Whole Lotta Shakin Going On) in great sounding but real PITA keys like F and G!! Rehearsal tomorrow - let’s see if the fretting hand complains (after all it’s done relatively little for over 12 months 😕). 

35 minutes ago, chriswareham said:

I'm struggling to find a reference online but according to either the engineer or producer on the sessions for All Right Now , Andy Fraser played the lead guitar on the actual recording of that track. Paul Kossoff was too strung out on heroin to put it to tape, so Andy Fraser did instead.

I have heard/read about that story regarding the last Free album made but not the Fire and Water era.

This is from another thread but superb - All Right Now is a rip roaring version (last track) - there’s some hugely funky playing by Andy Fraser throughout with a fat bass sound (note the way he plucks the bass hard, right next to the bridge - as did Bernard Edwards, another of my favourites) - the whole band is absolutely cooking - as they were the three times I saw them live (supported by Mott the Hoople each time)! I can’t understand why I never wanted an EB3 in 1970 (probably because Larry Taylor and Alan Spenner played Precisions and Leo Lyons a Jazz - and of course no one knew who Jameson and Babbitt were apart from the Motown inner sanctum - similarly Messrs Cogbill and Jemmott with Atlantic etc)

The 2 band pre amp sounds slightly different from the normal EB one - the Patrick Hunter video and the one on the EBMM web site seem to give an indication that it’s more along the lines of an ultra clean sound - perhaps like the late 90s Incubus and other similar - but with some of the normal Stingray fatness remaining (especially for slap). 

3 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Next EBMM projects:

The Death-Ray, Gamma Ray and Cosmic Ray, Sterling Silver and last (but not least), the Um-Bongo... (Google it if you're under 30!)

 

Ah - other soft drinks like Vimto, Corona and Tango were available. How about Espresso Bongo (for those pre Beatles ‘cats’?). Again for the old(er) folk - there actually used to be a ‘Ray Gun’  - first appeared on the likes of early sc fi and Gerry/Silvia Anderson creations (Fireball XL5 for instance) but then suddenly became President of the US. Well stranger things have happened since (including a synonym for emitting wind from the anus), I guess 😁😂 but completely off topic as none have anything to do with the DarkRay or even EBMM, who incidentally have been a very worthy saviour of (in 1984) and long term curator of the StingRay bass design 👍

20 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

 

I'm kind of coming round to the Granite Stone colour. I just think they could have done some a little more inspiring for a Ltd Ed version.

Just have to stop myself clicking 'Buy'.

Is it still in your basket - I discarded mine again last night but may revisit!! 

14 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

I saw this new bass from Ernie Ball this morning and I thought it's good to see someone offering something genuinely different in a world of Fender clones. I'm not sure this particular one is for me but I'd like to see more technology and innovation in bass guitars rather than just slightly different versions of the same product that's been on sale for 60 years for a couple grand 

https://mixdownmag.com.au/news/ernie-ball-music-man-unveil-darkray-4-string-bass-guitar/

Amen to that - and more excuses NOT to use flatwound strings 😬😂 that said I still get tempted by the occasional Fender offerings - the Miami blue American Pro basses are stunning - but are unfortunately missing the chrome fenders and grilles which are, in my book, absolutely obligatory…. I guess you could purchase and add them. I used to have a Jazz bridge cover kicking round which was in use in my youth as an…….ash tray - seriously 😏

Back to the DarkRay, one of those distortions sounds very Tim Commerford - very impressive and the clean is really impressive also. 

59 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Darkglass innit.

 

There'll be the Ultra version in a month for an extra 20%.

That’ll be the 5 string version then 😏😂

The other interesting thing here is the 2 band, super clean sounding EQ - but still with the unique fat sounding slap/pop sound. 

Clearly aimed at metal bassists - i think it’s quite an interesting departure. Bright red or bright blue I might be even more interested. 

The 100 is the limited granite stone colour - which is available in The Vault so can be bought internationally - apparently Andertons have the black one on their site.  The Vault version won’t have retailer’s mark up (which seems to be quite considerable these days - and very variable dependent on who you’re using). 

I think it sounds pretty awesome but I’m not a metal player or even approaching being one 😂

The modes are easily switchable with the blade switch (as he appears to do in the video). 

I would imagine this will go down well with some parts of the market. 

The black version is the regular one. 
 

Nope - Christmas sort of - unless the sauce material was wrong!! 😩 (ps I’ve taken to leaving auto correct errors for added effect!!)

Aherm…..bass players (I could find):-

Lemmy; Elvis Presley

Non bass players:-

Annie Lennox; Ricky Martin: Ed Miliband; Nostradamus…. 

What…….. 19 posts in and no Andy Fraser

This must be one of the fattest bass sounds ever - and with regard to another thread, is helpful when there are guitar solos 😏

https://youtu.be/0gQ3u6qIn1s

Ps won’t embed - such a good live sound

1 minute ago, Waddo Soqable said:

You'd probably be the man to know, what was the score with the passive elec ones? Was it the same Pups just with no pre amp?, I presume they sound like a rather bland version of the usual thing ??

They were cheaper and iirc there was a bunch of them unsold at the Bass Gallery that they sold off for around £400 each - it seems everyone wanted the active version. They sound and play fine. 

It’s really weird the way fashions change - back in that mid 2000s era everyone chose the 3 band Stingray - nowadays there’s more love for the 2 band than there was!! It’s the same with flatwounds - mind you I’ve just fitted two of my basses with new roundwounds (Stingray Special and Sabre) - any thoughts of flatwounds have completely disappeared - what a sound!! 

1 minute ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Funnily enough the listing on "my" one is still live if you click it, he still hasn't marked it Sold.  maybe he's expecting it to be thrown back a few times! 

If it was from FB Marketplace and in Leicester……. 😯 but yes they’re probably very slow dealing with it on their site!