drTStingray

4 hours ago, matbard said:

It's not a pickguard issue, that stands correct. The body contours are totally wrong.

The body contours of my Old Smoothie and my 2010 Stingray Classic (both strings through slab bodies) are identical. So this assertion is wrong. 
 

The only difference is the angle the control plate is fitted - the ones based on the early iteration of the 1976 Stingray have the control plate fitted such that it curves up to almost touch the scratch plate from around its mid point. The distance between the control plate and the edge of the body is closer at the jack plug end that on the later guitars - it then changes as shown in the pic (curves up and touches the scratch plate).

The later models (such as my Stingray Classic and the 79 pre EB shown in the pic at the top of the thread) have it fitted with a consistent distance from the edge of the body, and a gap between it and the scratch plate.

Rather than debating this here, perhaps someone who has a problem with this could email Musicman customer services and ask them about it? I’m presuming it’s based on an early 1976 prototype they have (probably B001028). 

16 minutes ago, Kev said:

The only one I can see in that link does?

 

Looking at other pictures of other Retro's, I do feel like it has the new body edge contours?  Which may be causing it, or causing the illusion.  Either way, its odd that they wouldn't just copy the bass its a reissue of when they did everything else.

 

BUT who cares, they're lovely basses otherwise.

Absolutely!! As I say, it appears to be a deliberate design on all the reissue basses based on the 1976 model. That photo of the black one seems to highlight it somehow - possibly because of the highlighted edges by the lighting in the photograph - as I said I didn’t notice it on my Old Smoothie until I checked after seeing this thread (and after looking at some pictures on line). As someone with a number of Stingray basses, I was surprised (and that I hadn’t noticed it!!)

The white bass at the top of that link has a control plate that is not a continuous distance from the edge of the body, which was the point I was making. This is unlike many of the later pre EB and EB Stingrays. 
 

The 1976 one in this link doesn’t 

http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/90434.html?1290992257

Also I’ve just noticed the one on my 2016 40th Anniversary Old Smoothie bass is the same as the black one in the pic at the start of this thread. I’d never even noticed until tonight despite owning it for over 8 years 😀 I shall not be losing any sleep over it - it may well be as per the original bass it was modelled on (an early model from 1976). 

47 minutes ago, Kev said:

Do you have a link to any 76 era Stingray's that have the same control plate not following the body curve?  Struggling to see one!

There are lots of pictures of 1976/7 Stingrays on line - they all appear to have control plates which touch (or almost touch) the scratch plate, unlike the later ones. They also angle up to the scratch plate and thus there isn’t a consistent distance between the control plate and the edge of the body at the pick up end. 

Ive just looked at the pictures of the natural classic retro 70s bass EBMM have in their on line shop, The Vault, and the scratch plate is like the black one in the picture at the beginning of this thread - it doesn’t look quite so apparent as the black one. I must admit I’d never noticed this in the pictures I’ve looked at many times and it’s only when it’s seen alongside the later version it’s really noticeable. My guess is they’ve tried to replicate the original ones but it curves up to the scratch plate at a slightly different angle. It also possibly shows up more obviously on the black version. Beware also camera angles - the number of supposedly vertical shots (which aren’t quite) and seem to display offset strings that are shown on web sites seems to be quite common. 
 

As @Bass Direct says, best to play your bass and not stare at it 😀😉

I don’t know if you guys have read the spec for these reissue 70s Stingrays but they are designed based on the 1976 version geometry and spec - which is different from the later pre EB version, even - the EB versions have ongoing improvements from the 1985 version to the current day. 
 

If you look at the two pics, you’ll see there is no Musicman stamped on the bridge of the 70s reissue, in line with the earlier pre EB basses. 
 

The website musicmanbass global has lots of information on the variations over the years - you’ll find the pick up pole pieces are longer as well on the reissues - as per 76/77 Stingrays along with the 3 bolt neck plate and tilt mechanism. They’re intended to be a faithful repro - I’ve never actually seen one but they are good from what I’ve heard and read. 
 

Im not sure about the control plate orientation - this did change over the initial years in terms of its proximity to the scratch plate, as did the headstock logo and there certainly used to be photos of the variants on the aforementioned website. 

10 hours ago, acidbass said:

How did EBMM finally get string alignment right after 40 years of negligence, yet persist with poor alignment on these designs? Woeful.

I find some of these posts quite extraordinary - I’ve got 15 Musicman basses and only two have any semblance of strings not aligning across the centre of pole pieces.

One is a 2 pick up Stingray from 2007 where the strings don’t align exactly across the centres of the poles on the neck pick up. I suspect it’s because the pick up is the same as the bridge one but as the neck one is closer to the nut than the bridge one the strings can’t align in the same way - however for the Stingray Specials they align centrally on the pole pieces on both pick ups….. excellent for the OCD bassist but frankly not making an iota of difference sonically. As noted below….

The second one is an Old Smoothy which has the strings aligned between the pole pieces as a deliberate part of the design and works fine - can still be shrill if you want it to be.

My basses have generally all been bought new and have thus not had excessive tinkering!! However tinkering with things like alignment or relative height of bridge saddles, pick up heights or slants etc can have a marked effect on how the strings appear to travel across pole pieces - and make sure you view them from directly above as viewing angle makes a difference.

For those of us old guys, it’s a bit like cars in the 70s and 80s - most people couldn’t afford to have them professionally maintained so did it themselves - sometimes very badly - I lost count of the number of badly adjusted pairs of carburettors I came across……. not wishing to suggest everyone is like this, but frankly people tinkering with musical instruments can result in very similar effects. 
 

As for OCD people, I find it extraordinary they can moan about design errors (which arguably are not, and in some cases are most certainly user error - to put it mildly) whilst everyone’s favourite two pick up single coil guitars and basses demonstrate that appalling hum when you turn the treble up - but no one bats an eyelid!!! Talk about design errors 😂😂😀

7 hours ago, horrorshowbass said:

No preamp is saving this G string

 

 

And no pre amp or anything else will save such sh*te photography. But also, the strings align over the pick ups on real Bongos, and the pick ups do not have cut outs between the two upper screws like those. So is it a real Bongo at all? Anyway it’s certainly spreading disinformation…….the Bongo is a very well built and designed bass in terms of functionality and sound. 
 

5 string Musicman basses have 17.5 mm string spacing - the strings are relatively close to the edge of the fretboard but this doesn’t trouble people who don’t have the sort of technique that involves grabbing the neck like it’s a club and pulling down on the strings thus pulling the G string over the edge of the frets - I’ve always wondered how people blessed with such technique manage to play the other strings pulled downwards in tune - perhaps they only thump the strings without any discernible note so it’s not noticeable 😂🥴

7 hours ago, neepheid said:

Pickguard arrived yesterday, and here are the final results - I'm done tinkering with this now, it's as perfect as I can be arsed making it!

 

Looks good but, if you’ll excuse the expression, what a lot of knobs. A veritable knob farm… 

Don’t you find that challenging on gigs? I find it bad enough with my Musicman Bongos - although the 24 frets are more likely to confuse me as they contradict muscle memory at the dusty end!! 

On 04/11/2024 at 09:42, danbb said:

Boycott MM and get the new Sire V range.  Way better quality, sound, parts and QC.  Literally zero reason to buy MM in the UK now, unless you're buying the high end Ernie Ball stuff.  

Not from some of the pics I’ve seen (in Sire threads on here and also Talkbass) - some have horrifically tatty looking construction in terms of neck joints and necks. 
 

I’m also confused - I thought this was an SBMM thread concerning their new lines of basses but the last page has been purely about Sire cheapo copy Stingrayish basses which are nothing to do with them (or did I miss some instruction somewhere that threads like this and Fender threads should be bombed with discussion about cheap knock off copies?) 🥴😂

Surely the best way to get Stingray sounds on a budget is with the officially licensed product??!! 

2 minutes ago, Misdee said:

That's the real deal right there.

 

The chances of finding a light one from this era are pretty remote, so well done you!

 

The necks on these vintage Stingrays is like a very shallow capital "D". I was playing a Stingray Special the other day and the neck profile bears little or no relation to the original Stingrays. Not that the newer profile isn't very playable, it's just that I expect most folks would prefer the original slimmer profile, given the choice.

 

I'd be very interested to know what this bass actually weighs, and whether you plan to put rounds or flats on it. Either way, may you get much pleasure from this beautiful bass.

I was observing my Stingrays which sit in a guitar rack the other day. The Special definitely has a slimmer neck profile altogether than the earlier ones. Incredibly comfortable to play as well. 

Fabulous - that’s really nice. As stated earlier, the pick up cavity has an additional routing in the middle to accommodate the deeper protruding long pole pieces. 

6 hours ago, MartinB said:

This might be a stupid question, but how does a "passive gain boost" work? Some sort of transformer wizardry?
Or more likely that the "normal" position is attenuated, so that the "boost" is comparatively louder?

Exactly as you say, and I run my first run TC signature passive long scale in ‘boosted’ mode all the time. However if doing anything with a bass solo in it, then running non boosted mode at an appropriate volume and pressing the boost control for the solo is very useful. 
 

My bass is great - use it regularly - I’m sure these will be as well - it’s under 8lbs. 

On 24/10/2024 at 21:18, mikeswals said:

Thanks! My last Sabre I had a couple of years ago was a 2013 Sledge, and it was absolutely fantastic! I loved the ability to run HS on it vs the vintage ones. 

 

As for rotation, I play in two different gigs: weekends is a casino circuit band in the region. I use my Wals for that, its average 2-3 weekends a month. My other gig is a weekly live karaoke band on Wednesdays and occasional corporate parties, and I use my Musicmans here. As you say about the nuances; the Wal exposes all if you flub a song! So I prefer using the MMs here as they're a little more forgiving.

As if that isn't busy enough, sometimes I get called for sub gigs, I'll usually play whatever else is in the closet like Ric or Jazz that doesn't get out a lot.

 

Paul's production is slow, and slower every year. I've had 4 builds done (2016x2, 2018, 2022), and I'm still waiting for my last one that I ordered Oct 14 2020!

I do appreciate all that Paul has done for me, but I won't be ordering any more, its gotten way too expensive! 

Interesting - I’ll just have to wait I guess, with a Wal order. I used my Stingray Special last weekend for a dep gig I’m doing for a while. The sound was the best I’ve got with that group, ranging from a really quite vintage tone (with a bit more definition and clarity) to a modern funky sound with a bit of slap and pop included - I really enjoyed the greater control that EQ gives and especially the bass and mid side of it - I think they were willing to overlook the sparkly blue colour (they didn’t actually comment on that) as the band sounded so good with it 😀 

On 23/10/2024 at 11:15, martthebass said:

In my recent purchase, I made sure I dealt with suppliers who could demonstrate the weight of their stock. In the end I was looking at Specials/Darkrays in the 7.5 - 10lb. By choice I went for one at 8lb5oz as I’m comfortable at that weight and was pretty sure it would be free of neck dive.

Andertons and Bass Direct do give weights and I noticed their recent stock of specials is at the lower end weight wise.

All of my most recent MM basses have been at or under 8 lbs - including an SR5HH Special and a Bongo 5HH.

There are MM basses around from all eras of production (back to the 70s/80s) which are very light (7.5-8.5 lbs) if you’re willing to search for a long time. 
 

All that said, one of my favourite basses is an SR5 (2003 model thus with ceramic pick up) with natural finish and a maple fretboard - at the time of my purchase of it, it was my homage to Bernard Edwards - but I wanted 5 strings particularly for Stevie Wonder songs. It is somewhere between 10 and 11 lbs but balances perfectly on a strap and is not a pain on a gig. However I think it’s the most resonant bass I’ve ever played and has a fabulous tone. 

1 hour ago, mikeswals said:

It's a good thing I didn't say I'd eat my shoe or something over dual pickup Rays, but I did say I like the HS's.

 

Two days ago I got a 20th Anniversary HS SR5. Had to do a quick cleanup and restring for last night's weekly gig. But it sounded pretty good. The special pickups, switching options, and mahogany toneblock in this package would almost make it out to be the Sabre 5 that never existed. The timbre is different than any ash/ceramic dual pickup SR5 I've owned or tried. 

It's a nice difference to my '93 SR5. 

 

 

Wow that’s nice and a very rare bird @mikeswals - I have a mahogany bodied Sabre Classic (almost if not unique - they did some (another LE version) with alder body as well). However it’s very good and I’m gigging it currently - and use the H plus inner bridge coil setting mostly! It’s also quite light (in the 8-9 lb range). It’s a 2 band though. 

How do you rotate your MMs with your Wals? I’m on Paul’s list for being offered a production slot - it’s a slow process but I’ve been a Wal fan since seeing and hearing Alan Spenner use one around 1980 - that said he was also a fantastic player - you could just really hear the nuances properly compared to his P bass - this wouldn’t suit some people but I’m a big fan. 

1 hour ago, OliverBlackman said:

I’m very much guilty of comparing to prices over twenty years ago. I traded mine for a value of £500 in around 2009. But there were quite a few around there at the time. But because Fender, Musicman, Gibson and Warwick all put their prices up around 10 years ago, £2-3k has become the norm for a quality instrument.

Yeah I agree - various factors involved including impact of Covid, global inflation, supply chain issues, distribution issues caused by shipping issues.

Id put EBMM instruments on a par with Fender Custom Shop team built in terms of volume of manual input and craftsmanship - in some instances the materials used are actually higher quality - look how much a new Pino signature Precision would cost - even used they’re on a par, price wise, with a new Musicman! 
 

So used prices have also increased. 

20 hours ago, Jack said:

You're kidding, right? I know there's been a rush on prices for all basses* recently but Stingrays have over doubled in price in the past 3-4 years. 

 

* all things, to be fair 

I don’t know where you get your info from but here are some prices I paid for new EBMM instruments:-

1) Stingray Special 4HH and 5HH - Autumn 2018 - £2250 each.

2) Stingray Tim Commerford passive long scale (one of 50) - Autumn 2021 - £2995

3) Stingray 40th Anniversary Old Smoothie - Autumn 2016 - £2050

4) Sabre Classic Neptune Blue version summer 2014 - £2233

5) Stingray Classic coral red - summer 2010 - £1650

Used standard Stingrays were around £750-£800 up to about 2014 (10 yrs ago) - they are now more like £1500 (more if in sought after colours or specs). Stingray Specials vary in price but even the most reduced seem to be £1700 - again the spec makes a difference. 
 

I hope this helps - much of the market for Stingrays and other EBMM isn’t the ‘scratch the Stingray itch’ and then sell on after 6 months as they don’t suit - I’ve also noticed there are people who think in terms of prices in the early 2000s - as an example of 2003, I could have had an immaculate condition Inca silver 77 Ray for £1700 - that would be at least £4k now. A brand new SR5 natural was £1295 at the same time (now worth £1500+). 
 

On 19/10/2024 at 17:32, Frank Blank said:

Despite having played a (borrowed) Stingray a few times, in a thrash metal band years ago, I know nothing about these basses. All I remember (I may have been a little refreshed at the time) was the biting tone which fitted perfectly with my style of playing in such a band. For a few years now I've played in an acoustic duo and I have two beautiful short scale basses built by our very own @Jabba_the_gut that are perfect for this endeavour. However, I have, for years now, had a hankering for a solid bodied electric bass. I've been through a few but, for some reason, I've mostly avoided the bigger names. My first 'serious' bass, bought thirty five years ago at The Bass Centre, was a black Jaydee Supernatural and the last was a Fender JMJ Mustang, but, apart from the borrowed Stingray, I have never really had the (sober) Stingray experience.

 

So...

 

I need some help from all the Stingray experts. If you were going to buy a Stingray, what would you go for? New? Used? Are there particular years to look out for? I think I've read about there being a pre and post period of some sort? Just to give you a starting point, I quite fancy the look of this 2022 Ernie Ball Music Man Stingray Special 4 currently on sale at Bass Bros, but that's purely on looks, if you had 2K (or 4K for that matter) to spend on a Stingray what would you go for and why?

Hiya @Frank Blank - here’s my take on these basses:-

If you have £4K - your choices are:-

a) A pre EB Stingray in v good condition.

b) A brand new 70s retro Stingray (same as an early pre EB but brand new with full warranty etc). They’re available in the EBMM Vault, for international shipping (only in natural) - the other colours have to be ordered via a dealer (say Guitar Guitar).*
c) A brand new Stingray Special via the Custom Design Experience - plenty of colours, pick up configurations etc *
d) A brand new Stingray Special in a standard colour via a dealer *
* dependent on what you get, you’ll get plenty of change from £4k

Used, Stingray Specials are up to £2k as are Stingray Classics, much dependent on colour and spec. Standard Stingrays up to 2017 are around £1500 although there’s much variation. 
 

Now some user experience - I’ve been using this type of bass since about 1980 and apart from occasionally playing a Musicman Bongo, I generally play a Stingray. My go to is a 2018 Stingray Special HH - the HH can get the standard single pick up (bridge) sound but you have options to mix it with elements from the neck pick up for a slightly broader, 2 pick up sound - also gives an additional wicked scooped slap sound. It’s a Swiss Army knife bass - my sound is really a Bernard Edwards sound or Pino Palladino circa 1981. 
 

I don’t favour the 2 band over the 3 band particularly because the 2 band can produce too much low end bass which can be muddy in certain rooms. 
 

If you have up to £750 then a US Musicman Sub is a good option. The bass would be about 20 yrs old but effectively a full fat 2 band Musicman with cheaper textured finish and painted back of neck finish. I have a 5 string one which I gig sometimes. 
 

Basses I use currently on gigs:-

Funky blues/jazz - Stingray Special usually

Rock and Roll/Elvis - Stingray Classic or Sabre Classic (both 2 band - I prefer the Sabre owing to two pick ups)

Ska - Stingray Tim Commerford passive long scale

Pop/disco/funk - Stingray Special 

I hope this is helpful - I’ve actually got 11 Stingrays including various 5 strings, fretless, 2 band and 3 band. The 3 band versions give far more versatility to deal with ‘difficult’ room sounds and to  be switch sounds slightly between numbers. I still love the 2 bands as well though.

I haven’t covered the Sterling by Musicman stuff as others have covered these - the Ray 34/35 are the offshore version of the pre 2018 Stingray (about £1.2k new and maybe the same price or less used than a US Sub. Also I haven’t covered copies. 

Folks - out of curiosity, do these basses have 2 x 9v batteries (ie an 18 volt circuit)? If so the circuit will need to reflect that. 

12 hours ago, bassbiscuits said:

And because drunk people sing and dance to it. 

This - all night long!! A crowd pleaser.

Slight query following one of the earlier posts - this is a soul song with specific bass part - the guitar part gets nowhere near the bass part……. or at least it shouldn’t if the guitarist has bothered to learn the song properly….. 

1 hour ago, mikeswals said:

 

I've had many HH musicmans, to me the neck pickup is in the wrong place. Its in more of a gibson mudbucker position than anything else. All my HH's sounded too scooped in full HH mode. Only settings I like were the 'single coil' modes or rear H only. Got rid of them all and went back to single pickup StingRays and Sterlings.

 

The Sabre is different and I very much loved those, and the neck pickup is placed further back in a spot that makes more sense. The HS also made more sense than the HH. 

I guess we are all different - I really like my HH Stingrays (and Specials). You are right that both Hs together create a scooped sound - I find dropping the bass down a little and tweaking the mid up slightly creates such a usable sound that I generally use that on those basses. I do use the single H (bridge) and also the outer coils (souped up Jazz sound) sometimes (the latter when covering Marcus Miller style bass lines) but stick with both pick ups most of the time. I also have a Sabre and my go to sound is single H (bridge) and inner coil (neck) - it’s a Stingray H sound with slightly more depth (but not EQ induced). 
 

The front H, with particularly boosted mids, and with bass and treble either at detent or slightly lower, and an aggressive plucking style creates a passable Alembic sound (Series 1).

The SR5 (well certainly mine) are extremely resonant basses - my ceramic pick up one has a plain ash body, and the back is so resonant you can feel against your stomach whilst playing it - I have a 92 fretless in blueburst - body is either poplar or alder - it’s also extremely resonant - has an alnico pick up. However the ceramic has more grind/growl to it. I think the construction of the SR5 has a significant impact on the sound. 

In my experience, all of the Musicman 5 string necks are similar in terms of neck radius, fingerboard radius, and string spacing. That includes SR5, 5 string USA Sub and Bongo. NB they are all hand finished so there may be some minor variation in the feel. As far as I’m aware the 5 string Classic is also similar.

The Bongo, USA Sub and Classic 5 all have finished necks (paint for Bongo and USA Sub, lacquer for the Classic 5) whereas apart from some of the limited edition models, the SR5 from the early 90s onwards, the US Sterling 5 and the Stingray Special necks all have oil and wax finishes. The late 80s/early 90s SR5s have lacquered necks. 
 

So really the only major difference amongst any of them is the neck finish. 

46 minutes ago, BassBeast said:

Question then,

 

Is a Stingray 4H Special going to be as hot as a Bongo 4H simply because of the the 18v circuit?

 

😇

Not sure about the H versions (the H Bongo has a three band, not four band EQ). I have a Bongo 5HH and both 4 and 5 string HH Stingray Specials. 
 

Id say the output signal is similar on all of them and I run the input gain on my Markbass LM3 lower when using these basses than using 2, 3 band or passive Stingrays. One thing that’s very noticeable on the Stingray Specials is the amount of boost available on the EQ - and specifically the bass EQ - I’d say it’s comparable with that on the Bongos. 
 

I used the 5HH Bongo on a blues/funk/soul gig recently - it was actually very good indeed and made a good late 70s onwards bass sound. It drew a lot of interest as well.

The Stingray Specials also nail the 70s Stingray sound very well (it may also help that I’ve been playing that style since the 70s…… along with Stingrays of various types 😀)

On 11/09/2024 at 23:10, rodney72a said:

 

This might be the rarest of the lot. I think I've only ever seen one other Peach Sabre and that's the one Tony Levin played in the Peter Gabriel: Live in Athens 1987 concert. Maple board, 3-band EQ. Sounds phenomenal in his hands. I seem to recall someone saying it was destroyed in a fire - I sure hope not!

 

It's a concert worth watching with Tony Levin playing a variety of Music Man basses.

 

I got mine, a 1988, without the original guard unfortunately, I suspect it would have been a clear one.

 

Very nice - nearly as rare as my Sabre Classic 😀 I’ve looked at a number of the tracks on that Peter Gabriel concert but have only come across a silver SR4 with matching headstock, the Chapman Stick and rather bizarrely the peach SR5 - I think - only fleetingly seen in the background of one of the songs where Gabriel rolls around on the stage with lights right above him - is Tony’s perhaps one of earliest prototype SR5s? 

I like the Sire Stingray Tribute as well - looked and sounded nice on the Andertons feature - pity they haven’t got their stock yet. Nice they’ve gone for the HS version which is not available on SBMM or EBMM variants. 
 

Any type of infringement of patents, copyright or trademarks is, in my view morally wrong and at worst piracy. I’m glad Sire has corrected this - the ensuing bass is much nicer in my view. 
 

I might give one a test drive if I’m in the vicinity of Guildford - I see quite a few people using Sire Jazz style basses and they sound good.