drTStingray

I agree with Dingus, I think this is the best way to deal with it.

Hope it works out well for you and come back and let us know.

Nurze - this problem is not typical of Musicman basses in my experience.

Internet diagnosis is hit and miss at the best of times and something beloved of forums but often not very helpful.

You haven't been very forthcoming with info about this bass - on the Musicman forum you suggest you've been using it for several years - just how old is it? Do you have a DOB for it - if you don't, you can get it from the Musicman forum. How old was it when you bought it? Did it get a whole lot worse in that recent serious cold spell in mainland Europe?

I'm not suggesting you or any previous owner has doen anything wrong with this bass, but just as a for example, a friend of mine put his prized Gretch, in its case, under a table behind which was, unbeknown to him, a radiator on full power - which nigh on bolied the case with guitar in it over the next hour or so before he came to use it. How do Musicman not know you haven't done something similar, or worse still, the truss rod has got damaged through improper use etc.

As people have said, probably best to take their offer - or alternatively have a dealer take it in for repair and let them get the neck replaced - and give you a report on what the problem was - that way you may be able to persuade EBMM customer service to refund some of the cost if it really does turn out to be a manufacturing fault. I do understand how you feel though being remote from the manufacturer - not a good feeling.

And come on guys, this having a pop at EBMM is really not helpful in this thread - everyone knows that EBMM have banned some members of this forum and Talkbass before now, arguably for behaving like jerks on the manufacturers forum.

Nurze, I think you are better off dealing with this matter and coming back and telling the story. At the moment there's precious little hard info in the thread - a load of internet diagnosis (which is very entertaining) and a one exchange with EBMM customer service (afte rthe thread has been running for a week or two).

I will tell you that I have contacted EBMM customer services several times by internet and they have always been very courteous and replied within a day or two - so I'm not sure why your response has been different.

Best of luck with it anyway.

Interesting thread................but I often wonder if there are any sh*te basses or just sh*te bass players? I've heard sh*te bass players make decent basses sound like sh*t, but give them a Precision with flats and they sound OK.

I believe a good player can make anything sound good, provided it's set up reasonably. And can make something half decent sound great.

Come on guys, everyone knows modern Stingrays are a million times more consistent than the old ones and to list a bass in here because you think the neck looks anaemic makes it sh*te - bloody hell next someone will be saying Rics are sh*te because they have strange styling!

And I'll have nothing said against an Encore P copy - they even do a lefty. When fitted with flats makes a great impression of a Precision at a fraction of the cost - just what you need as a starter bass - plays in tune - decent action - quite playable - trusty Precision bass tone. A real P sounds so little different you start to wonder what all the fuss is about!! My lad graduated straight to a Stingray from an Encore - but has fitted it with flats and still gets it out occassionally to get a 'vintage' sound!

So my take is there are few sh*te basses!

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1359332346' post='1953294']
I Like the fact that they bring out new ideas even if they look odd, bongo,pizza slice guitar but is this not what all the ebmm people gave out about fender, just rehashing old ideas.
[/quote]

The Classic series of basses has been around since 2010 (Classic Stingray and Sterling) so this is not a new departure - simply adding another Classic Musicman bass to that range.

As you say, that has not stopped EBMM innovating with the Reflex and the Gamechanger etc, really the Classics are just a parallel, but different line - the fact they are producing high quality versions of Classic instruments with figured neck options, is great for enthusiasts.

The only frustration instrument manufacturers have expressed is the resistance of the general market to innovation over the last few years.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1359204027' post='1951484']
Unfortunately , I think the slab - cut body on these Classics means that the average weight is on the heavy side . Such a shame , because they look otherwise stunning basses .
[/quote]

The Sabre has contours - my Classic Ray is about 9 and a half pounds and from what I've heard, they're fairly consistent - so I'm guessing the extra weight of the Sabre is down to the electronics/pick ups etc.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1359154197' post='1951035']
These look good to me . I seem to remember that the electronics are different to the original Sabre in that the switches now give the same coil options as the two pickup Stingray rather than doing whatever they used to do on the old Sabre ( can't remember what that was though ! Getting old .)
[/quote]

I did read somewhere what the settings for the switch on the new Sabre are - they're definitely different from the original (and some of the Sabre fabs in the states have said the new arrangement is more intuitive), and also from a Ray HH - however IIRC the settings are more a combination of the Ray HS and Ray HH - I recall there is a bridge H plus front single coil for instance. Plus it has the noiseless circuit, and the 16 pole bridge pick up.

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1359152021' post='1951000']
I'm in the want gang, just wish the blue was Tahoe blue, going to speak to strings and things about the options.
[/quote]

The colours are trans white, tobacco burst, natural, silver and blue (the blue seems to be closer to the late 80s Musicman smurf blue colour so darker than Lake Tahoe blue - the instrument appears to be based on the late 80s version, trans white also being a colour from that era) - the instrument's available on the MM website and the colours are shown.

Sorry if this has already been done, but is anyone else on here suffering the overwhelming GAS I have - created by these? Two new colours as well, one of which is trans white the blue looks nice as well

[attachment=126016:sabred.jpg][attachment=126017:sabre and Sterling Ball at NAMM.jpg][attachment=126018:sabre and STerling Ball at NAMM2.jpg]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1359037014' post='1948794']
The G string , or indeed E or low B string , slipping of the edge of the fingerboard is not necessarilly due to bridge or neck misalignment but can also be caused by how the nut is cut . Music Man five string basses are particulaly prone to this problem .
[/quote]

Presumably the setting of the saddles can influence this also - NURZE, the saddles on the E string side of your bass's bridge look to be significantly higher than the G string side.

Musicman bridges are usually bullet proof - but as Dingus has said the outer strings on the 5 string bass necks are quite close to the edge of the neck - they are not on the 4 string (or shouldn't be).

I've never seen a Musicman bass with strings as misaligned as those in the pictures. The bridges do not look out of line on them, and I don't see how it would be possible for them to be misaligned from the factory. However misaligned bridges is an issue which has been raised on forums by Fender customers from time to time - Musicman bridges have two extra locating bolts (at the ends of the saddles) which fix some way into the body, in addition to the screw holes, so the chance of misalignment is further reduced compared with the Fender design.

I hope you get it sorted out satisfactorily - if it's a new bass then I'm sure it will be - Musicman customer services have an excellent reputation.

Bigthumb - how old is that bass?

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][i]Definitely Warwick, Pete. Never seen him play anything else and when it comes to the slap/pop sound it's quite different from a Stingray sound. However fingerstyle Stingray and Warwick are quite similar in some respects.[/i][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][i]Nick Fyffe used Stingrays extensively on recordings, although tended to use a 5 string Yamaha TRB and a 4 string Yamaha BB live.[/i][/font]

[i][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Both are awesome players in my view - as is the current guy, Paul Turner. [/font][/i]

[i][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif](Sorry about italics - seems to be the default tonight!)[/font] [/i]

The Classic Sterling is only available in 4 string and a single humbucker - it has a 2 band EQ AFAIK. But the Classic Stingray is available as a 5 string (2 band EQ).

A used SR5 single H, post about 1991 and pre 2008 will give you humbucker in series or parallel, with a single coil option also, all selected via a toggle switch - plus you get the 3 band EQ as well - a very versatile bass, particularly responsive to changes in hand plucking position and intensity. The humbucker in parallel gives a Stingray type tone, whilst in series it has more pronounced mids and cuts through a mix even better. The Sterling 5 basically has the same pick up arrangment (ceramic), whereas the Stingray 5 went to Alnico in about 2008.

The SR5 is likely to weigh the upper end of 9lbs - it is quite a large instrument, whereas the Sterling is smaller.

Cloudburst, this really is an iconic bass of the 80s......to be seen all over Top of the Pops at the time. And they also sound great as well.

I suspect you may get a bit of stick at the Institute over your choice, however?!

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519']
if you turn up with an old Jazz everyone relaxes and guesses you know what your doing,, plus,,most popular music at min, really isn't in 5 string territory[/quote]

Hmmm therein lies a problem - I've seen more poor (well let's say challenged or limited) players playing Fenders than anything else. You could say that should be the case statistically because Fenders are probably the most popular of the name makes currently. However I know that many hobbyist players (particularly in my age range, where money is available to spend) are probably at beginner level and buy them because of the name/brand kudos etc etc.

I'm afraid that the idea that anyone turning up at an audition with a Fender relaxes everyone because they obviously know what they're doing is as daft as saying anyone with the wrong coloured hair (or the wrong type of trainers etc etc) will piss people off. If it was me I'd probably think........yawn OMG not another!

Back in the 70s this may have been true but Fenders are ten a penny in comparison these days (in quantities in the hands of hobbyists/players) and believe me, there are some extremely limted players out there (some of whom are likely to diss any non Fender they see as well - part of justifying their decision to buy what they did, possibly)!!

The content of this post encouraged me to take my Bongo 5 to a 60s jam I sometimes attend on a Sunday afternoon/evening - well I played on a total of about 15 songs, including 4 Shadows, a couple of Elvis, a Neil Diamond, Creedence etc. When the real 60s guys came on I was thankfully not called upon to play on Poetry in Motion or Teenager in Love (the latter of which had musos with a combined age of nearly 400 years - for a six piece that's going some) - but then again I wouldn't even if I had a bass fitting the genre cos some of these old guys often only trust equally aging people to play with them on this stuff - even though I know the parts as well as anyone else.

I will say it was a very fun time - some of the music was good, some appalling........and only a couple of playful negative comments were made about my bass - one guy (who I know well) asked if some bits had fallen off it pointing to the bottom horn - my response was to chuckle and ask him if his Strat (custom shop/matching headstock/vintage colour) was a copy as the headstock label looked a touch wonky............all playful banter really.

The good thing however was several musos commented on how my bass had a great sound. Before anyone gets the wrong idea with this, I do know all these guys and have done for years so maybe they are a little more tolerant with me and my whims - I would normally have used my coral red Stingray for the jam - well at least it matches some of the guitars in look!!

Now back to Gary Moore...........I think he once played in a band led by a famous bass player..........do you suppose Gary got told what guitar to play in that - maybe he was getting his own back on bass players with his own band re 62 Precisions? However I recall that someone auditioned (and got the job in Thin Lizzy) using a Les Paul copy..........they had had to sell their real one because they were broke, I believe the story had it.

My own personal view is that artists who require people to melt into the background in every possible way would do better playing to backing tracks and if they do need the 'illusion' of a live band, could hire models who blend in with whatever instrument (some of the choices made to 'fit an image' are absolutely hilarious) suits the manager/main artists whim to mime to the backing track - that way there would be no problem with anyone's ego, sound or anything else interfering. Come to think of it, isn't that what some pop acts do on MTV etc??

I don't play for a living but if I did, I would hope people booked me for my playing style, flexibility and my sound in which case giving me, for instance, a RIckenbacker to play, would possibly not work. I would certainly find it hard playing a bass I hated, through an amp I hated, on music I didn't have any affinity with, with a sound I hated, in an expressionless manner to fit the requirements of an artist night after night. I once read in an interview with Tony Levin that he had been asked not to play fills in a certain part of a P Floyd number - however this is different from the sort of control freakery described elsewhere in this thread - the guy has his own sound and is hired/paid for that. What is described elsewhere is musicianship devoid of creativity, artistry or expression - is far better reproduced by machine rather than human being?

Some interesting stuff in this thread.

Just to add another dimension, I don't recall such prejudices with bass back in the 70s/80s - the only potential problem into the 80s was keyboard players saying, I'll play the bass parts! I think it is a fairly modern phenomena.

I just read the thread about Gary Moore and the 62 Precision - can't imagine why him or his people bothered as I can't recall the bass on his records - come to think of it I can't anything but the guitar. Maybe it was a 'generic' sound - - in the same way as the bass on the Birdie Song, Shaddapayaface or a host of other records - maybe that was the point, the bass mustn't get in the way of the main guitar so best to go with what was used on the recordings (I would doubt it would matter to most listeners whether it was a 62, 72, 82, 92, or 02 P bass to be honest though).

There is certainly a lot more brand snobbery these days - but that is true of lots of elements of modern life eg clothes and fashion.

Can you imagine how Free or Cream would have turned out if their bass players had been 'required' by producers, lead guitarists or whoever to have played the then industry standard?

[quote name='MrTaff' timestamp='1356782329' post='1913485']
Image matters, would you turn up at a blues or jazz gig with a flying V or BC Rich Widow? they've got the same notes
[/quote]

You're taking it too seriously - most punters wouldn't give a **** - if you asked many of them to name three bass players they would probably get to Paul McCartney, maybe Bill Wyman and that would be it. It's generally the musicians (and in my experience, mostly guitarists) who get all anal about this.

I use my Stingray 5 for one of the blues bands I play in (along with a good book - you're quite right Cloudburst) - the band love the sound. If you listen to modern blues/funk/rock you'll find the punchy active bass sound alive and kicking - it's one genre which the 'mamby pamby play a Precision and we can mix it down with the kick drum without it quite disappearing' producers haven't got their hands on thank god.

Sorry youy've had this experience.

The sad thing is that if you follow the x bass fits in y genre only train of thinking, you end up with any Fender with a custom pastel colour belongs only in a pre Beatles 'surf' band or as an ornament on the wall. None of these 'x only fits in y' people would recognise this though - what bass was shown in the portrayed as deeply unhip stripper backing band in The Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour - Fiesta red Precision of course!!

Encountering this sort of thing isn't confined to Newcastle, regrettably - I guess how much you tolerate it is down to how much you want to play in the band (for instance because you need to earn money).

One thing's for sure, people who tell you what bass to play and also what notes to play are unlikely to allow you to be a 'band member' - I for one find this sort of thing even more laughable (and sometimes more difficult to take) when the people involved haven't learned to play their instrument properly even. Has anyone else been in a situation where someone says something like 'oo your guitar strap was hanging down in that DVD and looking untidy' when in the self same DVD, same bloke is playing completely the wrong pattern!

It boils down to froth v substance - unfortunately there's a certain amount of froth around amongst the music scene.

Yes, if you're in a heavily produced pop band this may apply - or even if you're in a tribute band you may be asked to play a certain instrument - the latter always creases me up when the band members look nothing like the original guys anyway!!

You should try and find some sensible musicians to play with - my experience has been open mike/jam sessions are a good place to go (although they also have their doses of prima donnas and the like). I was asked to join a rockabilly band and took my Stingray 5 to the first three or four gigs - and it sounded the business!! I was accused of getting a double bass esque sound generally, and a Fender sound on the songs needing electric bass. The SR5 is a great swiss army knife bass so anyone who wants you for your playing and sound will have no problem with it.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1356703756' post='1912625']
What drT meant was, get a Stingray!
[/quote]

How did you guess.

Several people I knew at the time had Ibanez Musicians - an awesome bass for playing early 80s dance music (eg The Whispers; Shalamar etc etc) and could get you into Alembic sound territory.

Stingrays are on pop stuff like Culture Club; Thompson Twins; Go West etc. Sabres on Spandau Ballet - all from the early 80s.

Blame Bernard Edwards - he made lots of people (including me) want to play a Stingray.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1356702657' post='1912608']
I'm guessing its a ray, were rhey made by different people at different times? And can you tell the difference in quality?
[/quote]

The best quality/consistency by a country mile is the EBMM version. Pre EB's can weigh up to 15 lbs and are variable (some are great) - I had one new at the time - loved it but for instance, within a few weeks, one of the mute pads fell off to be lost forever on a dark stage one night - remember we are talking the era of late 70s early 80s manufacturing (think cars, where sun visors regularly fell off in your lap, amongst other faults unheard of these days). 60s cars were little better. The Japanese introduced better quality amongst other things, and manufacturing grew up to compete or died, from the late 70s onwards.

The thing with early 80s Musicman basses is that they introduced new colours (as well as the Cutlass models with graphite necks), rosewood fretboards, and some colours moved to alder rather than ash bodies so give an arguably smoother sound. The 2 band Stingray EQ has been more or less the same since 1979 to date. And yes, made by Charvel. So there was, basically, a broader choice, and a number of Musicman fans revere these early 80s instruments - a possible downside (dependent on your view) is the lack of through body stringing on the bridges (through body may increase sustaina little).

[size=5][sub]At this time, bass playing had been thoroughly influenced by the likes of Pino, Jaco, Louis Johnson, Nate Watts, Norman Watt-Roy, Mark King - so things had become technical - look at Nick Beggs - Kajagoogoo (top 10 single etc).[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]So basses of the era - Musicman Stingray, Sabre or Cutlass.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Ibanez Musician; [/sub][/size][size=5][sub]Steinberger; [/sub][/size][size=5][sub]Wal[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]All choice basses of the time. Alembic if you could afford one (few people could); Jaydee if you couldn't.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Fenders were off the radar for many serious players at this time as seriously out of date and unhip, but found in the hands of punk rockers etc.[/sub][/size]

THere's some good advice in this thread - however here's my take on it. I owned a pre EB Ray from about 1980 onwards, and currently only have Ernie Ball basses.

The 3 EQ can sound almost identical to a 2 band EQ bass - the key difference is that the mid range knob, at centre detent, give the bass more mid range than a 2 EQ has with the bass and treble boosted about 80% (which seems to be the way many people play them). They can sound exactly like Bernard Edwards (but of course you need to be able to play in his style, which is very specific).

The mid range control can help you out in some mixes, particularly if you don't want to play too hard - so basically the 3 EQ has a little more versatility.

The 2 band has more bass and treble boost (IMO), however when dimed, you do lose mid range in the sound - the mid range comes back as you back off the tone controls.

The Ray 133 is 2 band NOS in specific colours (red, white or blue??), without hard shell case. You may well find 3EQ basses around as NOS which are discounted - in fact I know of a shop with a 3EQ HS pick up model in natural with a maple board which I was offered a discount from the already discounted price - PM me if you want to know where it is.

You should find the Stingray in either 2 or 3 EQ form a natural slap machine (amongst other attributes) - mine still bring a smile to my face a full 32 years after the first time I played a slap pattern in a gig with one - it is an awesome sound.

Best of luck with getting one. You may wish to consider buying used - plenty of mint or near 3 EQ basses come on the market (Ebay for example) and 2 EQ ones.

[quote name='tedgilley' timestamp='1355528224' post='1899753']
Amazingly melodic player, up against a wall of horns. Never better.
[/quote]

Did you mean Nick Beggs of Kajagoogoo??

A large percentage of how a bass sounds is down to the user - Stingrays are capable of extremely smooth and subtle delivery, as evidenced by the multitude of professional users over the years. The fact the bass can produce an iconic and very aggressive sound produced by the likes of Flea and Tim Commerford tends to overshadow its ability to produce a very smooth bass sound.

As for the neck query, I have 5 of these basses - and don't have the problem - they are all gigged and they barely go out of tune from oneto the next. Yes if you have v low action you may need to tweak the truss rod at the start of summer and winter but that is because the materials used cannot defy the laws of physics - however thanks to EBMM, the truss rod adjuster is about the easiest and most effective on the market.

The size of frets may also have a bearing on the ability to get very very low action - no matter what reinforcement is used, I don't see how manufacturers can produce necks made from wood which defy the laws of physics - basically if your bass is exposed to temperature range of 40 - 50 degrees C, and humidity ranging from 10 to 90% (all of which occurs over a year in this country), wood will react at the extremes - and your action may need adjusting (especially if it's already perilously low).

I'm not fussed about my Stingray 5 natural finish being available as an SBMM Ray 35 - indeed someone once asked me whether mine was a Ray 35 - I said no and pointed to the headstock - the guy thought my bass looked and sounded great anyway! It's no different from people with Fender instruments - last night I was at a jam session and a guy turned up with a Telecaster thinline in natural, with a worn maple neck and TV logos. I was talking to the guy next to me who's something of a Fender buff and he said to me that's not original because the tuners are Kluson and thus predate the model. He went and asked the guy who confirmed it was a Japanese re-issue about 10 yrs old - but who cares, really??? It looked very pretty indeed. The guy who has an original will no doubt think he's got the best guitar in the world (for him) as does the guy with the Jap re-issue - there are other compromises, eg pick ups, in the re-issue, which sets the real thing apart also.

[quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1355672887' post='1901169']
The secret of a good 5 string lies in having the slightly longer 35" scale the low B string needs
[/quote]

I would respectfully disagree that you need a 35" scale for a good B string - both My Bongo 5 and Stingray 5s have killer B string sounds and are 34". There are others as well.

My take on this subject is you should get a 4 string to learn on. For your budget you may get a used Mexican Fender Precision and a used Ashdown 300 watt MAG combo. This will allow you to gig if you want to later - plus the resale if you find it's not for you will be OK.

Should you want more tone options (not usually something a beginner thinks a lot about) you could go for a used Mexican Jazz bass or a Sterling by Musicman Sub bass (you will probaly be able to learn Flea and early Tim Commerford RATM lines and get a passable rendition of their sound and certainly a good slap sound with the SBMM).

You could opt for a Squire or a SBMM Sub new if you didn't want to buy used but remember you will lose money on resale on anything you buy new - many people, however, prefer a shiny new bass if they can afford one.

On the amp front you could just go for a small combo to use at home and learn on, but as soon as you want to join a band you'll need something more powerful (probably 300 watts in my view).

You could go to a shop and get the salesman to demo the ones your interested, or if you know someone who can play reasonably well, take them and ask them to do it - try them yourself for feel etc, and pick what you like the best. Best of luck.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355269562' post='1896313']
rickenbacker havn't yet.
[/quote]

Indeed not - they've taken a different route - trying to make it difficult for people to trade copies. What EBMM did was to say if we don't fill the space (for a cheaper version) someone else will - hence the Sub SBMM (which competes with the Vintage Stingray copy etc).

My take on this is that people who start off with the cheap version may well lust after the real thing in due course. I was inwardly chuckling earlier at a very lengthy Talkbass thread which was trying to argue a Squire xyz bass is better than the Fender version of the same bass - I thought - yes you may believe that but I'm betting a good number of people who buy the Squire will at some stage end up with a Fender.

My original take on this thread was it's just a facet of the current market - the price of basses can go up or down, as they say! A good example of fluctuation of new prices - I got my SR5 in 2003 with a hard case for £995 (yes really - brand new - in stock for two months from DOB) - six months later they were around £1250+ and didn't come with a hard case, only a gig bag - the reason - huge fluctuation in exchange rate. Later the rate changed and the prices altered yet again.

Slightly off topic - but have any of you guys with Stingrays recorded with one with the mutes wound on? I did a couple of weeks ago (2 band Classic) and am totally amazed at the sound - real thump (a la P bass) but with warmth and a smoothness I've never heard before. So much so I've started using them live as well and they have a great effect there as well.

It's a sign of the economy - you only have to look at the silly prices people are bidding on Fenders - eg 17 bids on a Road Worn Jazz, and it's got to £175. 3 bids on an American standard Jazz - and it's reached £56. Loads of new Custom Shop stuff at half price. The market simply goes up and down.