drTStingray

[size=5][sup]The other thing not mentioned yet and sometimes worth a try - make sure the contacts are bent up to touch the battery on the base - this is a problem some people have had.[/sup]
[sup]Duracell is your best bet but I've never stumbled over the battery too big fit issue, but will avoid said makes!![/sup]
[sup]Finally, does anyone else find their batteries seem to last almost forever these days? I rarely change mine - reckon they last around 12 months.[/sup][/size]

I agree with everyone else - it takes a little while to get used to but the rewards are worth it. You learn to play with your ears and the dots on the top of the fretboard are an invaluable guide!

You could try one of these - great value used (which is how I got mine - a 93 in mint condition, now strung with EB Grp 3 flats).

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1367953702' post='2071573']
The only issue(s) I have with Ashdown are their appalling visual design[/quote]

Aw come on - a little colour co-ordination is a great thing

[attachment=134317:very blue.jpg]

...............maybe not if one of the band members has a clinical aversion to the colour blue (as I have recently found out - he admitted it after separately dissing my Ashdown set up and later my blue Stingray)!!

I have nothing but praise for Ashdown equipment - they even rebuilt my ABM in front of me after I fried it (coat over the fan) once - for a very reasonable price! The ABM set up sounds great to my ears - I liken it to the sound I had with an Acoustic 370 set up in the 70s, but with the dialable tube giving the possiblity of a varying/good levels of drive, and the sub harmonics giving a good octaver - I think they're awesome.

And the Mags aren't that bad at all either - I know someone who uses a PF500 with a Mag 4 x 10 cabinet and it sounds awesome. In fact I know of a particular 4 x 10 Mag that has had 10 yrs of hard gigging and still sounds great.

I think you do get people dissing Ashdown (possibly more on Talkbass - or maybe not recognising their existence there).

Although I generally use Mark Bass now (for weight/back reasons largely) I've kept my ABM set up and will use it if the occassion suits. I have also had rude comments about MarkBass equipment (eg I see you're endorsed by JCB these days etc etc).

I have major GAS for one of these. Probably a sunburst one with black plate. Interesting that the neck pick up has 16 pole pieces - and the coil selections include bridge H and neck single coil in combination (ie an HS), and a single coil at the neck - making it quite different from the SR4HH (the 2 band EQ also is substantially different).

I saw the Merchant City one - they posted pictures on the Musicman bass forum - it's a stunning bass and the neck is unbelievable - however they would need to drop the price somewhat to interest me.............and I'm sold on the trans white/sunburst or diego blue variants anyway.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1367953601' post='2071570']
I'm old enough to have seen Jet in his prime so no history lesson needed but thanks anyway.
[/quote]

No history lesson intended - just wasn't sure where you were coming from. BTW I played one of the Japanese re-issue bass V1s of one of these guys - it was quite interesting.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1367943339' post='2071348']
Did you read the thread that i suggested? It will probably be a lot more help to you than this one is at the present. Oh and for those who don't think it's a bass............

[media]http://youtu.be/CKDuevCr90Q[/media]
[/quote]

Interesting use of it by the latter incarnation of Soft Machine - sounds fine against the sax solo and sparse keyboards.

However, are you suggesting its use by Hank and Jet isn't famous - as someone who plays in a Cliff and the Shads tribute band I hear about this point in the instrument's history on a regular basis - indeed many of the afficianados (generally guitarists) have them

[size=5][sub]Those are absolutely gorgeous - wouldn't mind one.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]If Trevor Barry can play a gold sparkle one on Strictly Come Dancing (and sound great as well), these are fine by me![/sub][/size]

Surely it's a baritone guitar - the bass tag on these has always seemed a bit wide of the mark to me.

And perhaps the most famous users have been Hank Marvin (playing deep sounding guitar solos), Jet Harris (playing deep sounding melodies) and possibly the one I really associate with this instrument - Wichita Lineman (presumably Glen Campbell playing it?).

They're not exactly famous for bass players using them to play bass parts - I would imagine they would be marginally better than someone playing bass parts on a regular guitar, but not sure they would be suitable as a bass per se? But I may be totally wrong! Worth being aware what they're famous for though.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1367867628' post='2070464']
IIRC.... The traditional EQ on a MM was +15db on the bass, boost only, and +-15db on the treble..
If you maxxed out the controls you'd have that awful typical MM sound.
[/quote]

This is not actually correct - the 2 band Stingray has boost and cut on both the bass and treble controls - problem is if you boost them both you can lose comparative mids - now that sound works excellently in some situations, but probably not the sound saturated environment the OP is referring to, where it's likely mids will be needed to overcome the bassiness of the guitars (or one of them by the sound of it)

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1367867628' post='2070464']
They will have to learn to band EQ themselves for the greater good... and not blanket
the mix with a gtr wall of sound.
You'll sound better if you layer instruments to the common good,.. inc drums...and it will make
things far easier ..AND quicker to set up.
[/quote]

I agree entirely with you on this - and if the band is not playing with PA assistance with proper monitoring, I have started to ask other band members whether they can hear the rest of the band - one of the bands I play in has a rhytmn guitarist who is very much in the 60s idiom (relentless rhythmn) - and I walked over to his side of the stage one day only to find I couldn't hear anything but him - which expained why he missed half of the drum cues - so when it appears to be getting loud I now ask band members whether they can hear everyone else, and if they say no, the first issue is that they are probably too loud themselves - so must turn down - why is it that many guitarists often start (even in rehearsals) at searing volume - I suspect part of it (although there are no doubt other issues) is hearing loss (in which case they're also likely to hear the bass too loud in relation to their own volume anyway and compensate by turning up).

As I said before - the bass is probably quite audible out in the audience but the sound on stage may be compromised - it's awaful if you can't hear yourself properly.

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1367684774' post='2068410']
The other thing to bear in mind is if you going through a PA, make sure the sound man doesn't create too much scoop by boosting treble and bass and cutting mid (as they often do).
[/quote]

I meant on the fader the bass is through just to be clear.

I'd suggest you put it into series, try the EQ with the mids flat, the bass boosted a tiny bit and the treble boosted a tiny bit.

Dependent on what amp you have, I would go with everything on centre detent.

The other thing to bear in mind is if you going through a PA, make sure the sound man doesn't create too much scoop by boosting treble and bass and cutting mid (as they often do).

The other think to bear in mind is because you have one pick up, plucking position will create significant change in the tone. PLUS, it is very unlikely your bass, even if you have it set too scooped, won't cut through as far as the audience is concerned - on stage it might sound slightly lost if it's too scooped, however.

Pick ups v scratch plate v headstock do it for me - not bothered about the other bits as much.

An analogy for me would be a Cortina with a mark 2 shell and doors, mark 1 back and mark 3 front. Sits together rather ungracefully, and looks a bit like an incorrectly completed jigsaw.

Of course it might sound fabulous, but who knows? FWIW I don't think the black body with white scratch plate does a lot for it - these tend to accentuate the bits - maybe a black plate with a sunburst body would look better.

[u]I[/u] think it (the bass in the OP) looks like sh*te - a parts bin special! That said, no doubt it sounds quite different, especially with the bridge pick up - I'm not a fan of single coil P bass sound so it certainly is unlikely to appeal..

However, similar thing in fiesta red with Thunderbird pick ups might be interesting. I think Pino has one - maybe Fender will change the spec if/when the sales don't match up to expectation.

I can't help wondering whether this model has come about as a result of customer feedback or Fender think they know already what people want - if the latter, it's just possible they have the Minstry for Daft Ideas working for them.

BTW I didn't read all of the posts but there seemed some seriously strange activity in this thread

Hmmm this is all sounding very technical and possibly reasonably expensive.

A simpler route would be to get a used SBMM Ray 34 or even a new Sub SBMM Stingray - you'll get the sound you're talking about straight out of the box cutting the bass a bit on your amp plus you'd have a bass that you can use in a whole lot of other situations as well

[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1367352468' post='2064650']
Like those people that think a Precision is only good for vintage 60s sounds and root-and-fifth-thumping Country and Western for example?
[/quote]

They were intended to be examples of stereotypes, not an exhaustive list I missed out Beach Boys tribute bands amongst a host of others, for instance (although I did notice that the guy in the real Beach Boys played a Lakland when I saw them!)

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1367311339' post='2063913']
That sounds like a Fender bass strength and not a weakness.

So, which luthiers are making instruments that are difficult to play?
[/quote]

The point here is that some instruments are better suited to players striving to play more complex music which demands a more technical approach, and thus demand more response/playability from their instruments. People may scoff and say that's not proper music and the bass player's job is to sit in the background and perform a specific function - that view is rather narrow minded - could be described as PJ (pre Jaco!!).

Some people are not looking for a vintage 60s sound (whatever that may be), and some people are not content to thump away at root and fifth country and western.

I'm afraid that threads like this do display a narrow minded approach to music - there are quite a lot of areas where a P bass would not give the best result - there are some where it will.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1367266118' post='2063508']I used to ( and still occasionally do ) play a smattering of Free covers ( still very popular with middle aged women , for some reason ) and yes , a Precision Bass isn't quite right for it . A Wal works a treat , however , I can also confirm that you [u]cannot and must not [/u]play Rush songs on a Music Man . It is just very , very wrong to even attempt it .
[/quote]

I can imagine a Wal being perfect for Free numbers.

I would confess to not being a Geddy fan - I always though his bass sound was more reminiscent of a Ric (a bit less in your face than Chris Squire with Yes, but in the same ball park) but I hear what you say. Now if you're going to play Journey stuff the Musicman fits perfectly.

However I have one of those new-ish fangled Stingrays with 2 H pick ups - it sounds awfully like a Jazz on one setting - in fact the whole bass sounds slightly unlike a Musicman at times (it's very very light in weight and has a rosewood board) - so maybe I could get away with Geddy if I was hidden behind a screen not really - I can't play anything like him!!

You are right, there is some original music which really needs certain instrumentation to sound right, be it Precision, Jazz, Rickenbacker, Warwick, Stingray, Bongo, Yamaha, Ibanez, Aria or Wal (or EB3)! Now the Smokie stuff.......................presumably any bass will do it so long as it has a generic tone.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367265274' post='2063487']
Well, Smokie is a given obviously - who could possibly dislike them [size=4], but Stanley..?[/size]


[/quote]

They have both caused me nightmares and trauma - Smokie from playing their material in working mens clubs rather too much, and Stanley for dropping his upright at Birmingham Town Hall, and the neck breaking off - and then announcing to the audience that it's OK cos he has another back home about 1976!!

I thought everyone knows a bit of Schooldays, for those guitar shop moments (and tuning up setting sound of course!!!)

Well yes you could - but some basses have very dynamic output/sound reproduction and would make things like poor muting, fret noise more obvious.

I don't know if you were attending gigs in the early 70s, but it was common for the basss to either have a dreadful sound, be inaudible or generally sound nothing like the recorded versions of the songs being played - I suspect this was the reason people tinkered with and subsequently produced better amplification, speakers and basses from the early 70s onwards.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367263874' post='2063443']
[size=4]Are you suggesting that for some reason Fender basses [i]can't be heard..?[/i] [/size]
[/quote]

I think it's possible to play one badly, with poor technique and get away with it (certainly as far as a non tehnical audience is concerned) whereas some basses would sound dreadful (and expose poor playing technique more obvioulsy).

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367263874' post='2063443']
[size=4]Would anyone in their right minds think of playing Return To Forever material? [/size]
[/quote]

I thought everyone played a bit of Stanley from time to time and Smokie?

[quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1367239928' post='2062966']
In my last band we had to sack the drummer. He turned up with a Premier drum kit.

He should have know that the best drum kit for Metal is a Pearl Export.

Plonker.
[/quote]

That is hilarious

Now if the OP question was being asked in about 1974 the answer would definitely be yes..............oh wait, no it wouldn't - if you're playing covers of the band Free (or actually in Free) they don't work too well - I've heard people try - doesn't sound right!

But it is 2013 and the Fender Precision is a product of 1957 - there's lots of types and genres of music where the P bass would be just about OK (or maybe worse) but other basses would be far better. For instance, would anyone in their right minds think of using a Precision bass to play Return to Forever material?

I would describe a P bass as an instrument that can do most musical things to do with bass just about OK, some things fairly well and some things very well indeed. To say it can do everything, musically, suggests an ignorance of some types of music (often where the playing is more demanding). Anyone fancy doing some Billy Shehan or Mark King on their 62 AVRI?

There is another angle - Fender Precisions (and Jazzes) are beloved of guitar players who don't want their position in the limelight challenged - and are basses where some guitarists can swap over and play a bit and not have lame bass technique exposed!

All that said, they have an enviable pedigree and I lusted after them until the end of the 70s - I may even yet buy one!

I have always been firmly of the belief that a Precision bass can walk on water - I believe it will certainly float (didn't the Who try this one?)

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1367090397' post='2061255']
The Fender Bass VI was introduced about 1961 but the Danelectro 6-string Bass - with which the Fender was intended to compete - had been around since the mid-fifties.

I'm guessing neither become the norm for bass parts because they didn't thump like a Precision (or some other 4-stringers). When it did get used it tended to be either for tic-tac bass or for more twangy guitar-styled work in, for example, surf bands or Glen Campbell's solo on Wichita Lineman.
[/quote]

I think you're right - it really isn't a bass, in the traditional sense, at all. In the same way Stanley Clark's piccolo basses aren't (and they're 4 strings). The 4 string bass guitar was clearly intended to be an update for the upright 4 string (although 5 string versions of them are around!) - and much as with upright, the instrument took a supporting role in much music in which it was used - although there were exceptions where double bass players in jazz bands took a more prominent role. For electric bass, it wasn't until the mid 60s that this happened (Jamerson/soul music), and probably not until the 70s that virtuoso bass guitarists appeared.

5 string really started in the late 70s/early 80s, often to get the low notes on disco/R and B/dance music of the time - bass parts which were far removed from the thump along role of the bass in pop music in the late 50s to the mid 60s.

Still with a (rather tatty looking) bell housing as well! But not the bridge one. I would have thought he'd need them both off for his style so am surprised to see it's still there.

I have often wondered why these basses came about and whether Fender did them in order to get Entwhistle to use a Fender - in which case is it really the forerunner of a signature model?

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1367055428' post='2060682']
my jazz bass is active, i have J-Retro install so it gives me that flexibility then a traditional jazz bass with 2 vol and 1 tone.
[/quote]

You could try a drive pedal then - if you think Tim Commerford, he gets a great sound with a Jazz (mind you it's slightly different from that early sound with the Stingray) - but it might get you closer to what you're seeking.

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1366959643' post='2059358']In fact if you can still find it, there's an earlyYoutube video of Flea using a Black Precision bass live and still getting his sound[/quote]

I've watched/heard that video and couldn't disagree more - in fact I've never heard Flea get a Flea sound on any Fender instrument - they sound far too 'polite'. You might recall he went through a period of playing live with an early pink Jazz - and went back to a Modulus not long after - it simply didn't do the job.

The Flea sound is rooted in a Classic Stingray sound with the strings struck hard enough to get some fret clank and with that shimmering treble sound - the Modulus has a slightly pumped up version of the treble. Now I can get something like this sound from my 2010 CLassic Ray fitted with Thomastik flats and the mutes engaged - it is a facet of the bass, which you can remove by playing technique/EQ but is there if you want it.

Back to the OP's question. I have heard a demo of the Digitech overdrive pedal (the dark red one), where with a small amount of drive dialled in, that shimmering treble appears - combine that with hitting the strings hard (to get clank), and new roundwounds (GHS boomers might work - certainly Rotos when they are new) and you may get closer to it with your Jazz. However, you may find it difficult to get it to clank unless you wind up the tone control, in which case other elements of the sound may disappear - i.e you might go more towards Roger Waters/Chris Squire than Flea).

Flea's sound is essentially Stingray/Modulus with aggressive playing technique (most of the time) - that means active bass of the type mentioned. I know he used several other makes for recording, but essentially the Stingray/Modulus covers most until quite recently.

JJ Burnel's sound always seemed to me to be rooted in the clangy P bass sound (ie tone control fully on) boosted perhaps with a little drive - and that sound characteristic being the only real element of bass sound, amplified loudly.