Bilbo

Very quick, very clever but does it swing?

I do like a dare!!! We will all have to make sure that our backing tracks are the same for each take otherwise the swing will be different because of the drums as much as because of the electric/double bass comparison. I have a week from hell but will get to it as soon as I can. In the meantime...... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zj8Hb2pTqo&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zj8Hb2pTqo&feature=related[/url]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331570825' post='1575041'] I've got to disagree about Berlin...the guy swings like crazy. There are plenty of guys who swing hard on the electric bass,but I think the reason that people like Upright for jazz is nit because it swings harder,but because of the envelope of the note. Because of the difference in scale and the fact that a Double Bass has a massive body to vibrate,the whole attack and decay of the note seems to sit really well when playing walking. The electric bass has more of an instant attack which some people don't like within a jazz context and often mistake for (lack of)'swing'. [/quote] My original point was that definitions of swing are important here because, by mine, JB doesn't swing at all; not even close. All the others listed are the same. Nice players; great shuffles, great grooves, great solos etc but, when it comes down to it, they are thin and unsatisfying compared to a DB.

Can Berlin out-play us all? I guess if you measure playing in a notes per second, how hard is it to play kind of way but swing? What is interesting to note about JB is his almost complete absence from the broad 'Jazz' genre (as opposed to 'fusion'). Nobody books him to play/record because he is not actually very musical. Clever, cerebral yes. But not musical. His playing lacks emotional content and his sound is nasty. I want to like his stuff but it doesn't sound very nice. His cds are all very cleverly executed but emotionally flat as f***. He keeps trying to get famous singers to use him as a bass vocal feature but they don't because, ultimately, they all know it won't work. Not because they lack courage (as he would probably say) or because their producers think it is not commercial enough but because it won't work. His chordal playing on bass is clever but the sound is not engaging. And he doesn't swing.

No its not silly at all. The discussion is about the process not about the truth. In truth, not one of the 10,000+ basschatters out there gives a rat's arse what anyone else thinks about their favourite players but there is fun in the discussion and banter. We all get angry and hot under the collar about everyone else's preferences and criticisms but, at the end of the day, none of it matters. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, really; entertaining but, ultimately, completely pointless.

There is an argument that no electric bass players can swing..... That statement is by no means an absolute (an is probably nonsense) but there is a real issue in determining what the OP means by 'swing', what the industry/market means by 'swing and what the concensus definition of 'swing' is amongst musicians. I would respectfully suggest that Laurence Cottle and Jeff Berlin don't swing at all. The only electric players I can think of who I would agree wholeheartedly can swing would be Swallow and Anthony Jackson and I am not sure about AJ!! There is a Brian Melvin/Jaco cd called Standards Zone where JP plays standards (Days of Wine and Roses is one I recall) and they are horrible. Jaco could swing at times, unquestionably (see Word of Mouth), but, at other times, it could be horrible. But Jeff Berlin is the most non-swingingest bass player I have ever heard ! The other guys listed by Jake are all credible in terms of the logic of their walking bass lines etc but, when you listen to jazz all of the time, the electric players trying to play 'swing' stick out like a sore thumb and rarely have the depth of a double bass (not sonic depth but the layers of overtones and the attack etc). A good six string player can get into that zone occasionally but they invariably give in to temptation and go up the neck and that is when the swing ebbs away. For the record, I have been considering this question as a aesthetic priority for over 25 years and have momentarily come close in my own playing, when the stars were aligned, but, since I got the double bass, it was quickly apparent that I can't swing on electric OR double bass

All electric bass players......

I recently did something that I did last year as a way of opening some new doors for me listening. I buy Jazz TImes, the US jazz magazine, and every year they have a critics top 50 albums of the year article. Last year, I used it to link into the SF Jazz Collective, Christian SCott, Miguel Zenon, Avishai Cohen (trumpet) and some other stuff. This year, I got some stuff by pianist Armen Donelian, a Lee Konitz live album with Brad Mehldau, Charlie Haden and Paul Motian, a couple of Marcus Strickland recordings, a Ben Allison (bass led) thing, a Jerry Gonzalez cuban thing. I sample them via Spotify first but I find that its a great way of breaking out of your confort zone

Bass sizes are not that 'defined'. A 3/4 can be between x and y in length and can cross into other sizes (you will see adds for a 'small 3/4 size' or a 'large 3/4 size'. Stay away from a half size bass; they tend to be for young students only and will not be credible in a professional setting etc. But 3/4 is the default size for most jazzers and other secular musics. Larger basses tend to be used to be used for orchestral work but nothing is set in stone as some jazzers play 7/8 basses. But, the straight answer to your question is; try 3/4 size.

I gigged with a broken foot in plaster in the late 90s (really). It was ok but my walking lines limped a little

What Mingus are you comparing this to, Mornats? I'd like to be helpful but I can't hear what you are trying for?

Doddy is right. Its about need. Your technique only really needs to be as 'good' as the music you play. If you are a pop/rock player who just plays roots and minims, your left hand technique will not need to be at all sophisticated. If, however, you are ripping up 16th note grooves all over the neck, you will find the one finger per fret routine pretty helpful. Its a question of how much technique do you need to deliver what you hear? I made a decision a long time ago that I had as much technique as my ears could cope with and have concentrated on other things rather than 'speed'. I once read somewhere that 'all musicians have more technique that they know how to use' and I think there is a nugget of truth in there. I did a gig once where a string snapped and the bridge slipped and effectively blew out two more strings so I only had one string on which to play the rest of the set (only two more tunes). It is surprising how much you can achieve without the finer details of advanced technique.

Yes. Less is more. If jazz players do this, it is usually a train wreck. Listen to some recordings and see how others do it.

I still maintain that there is an element of learning to read that requires the ;doing; of it. The stopping and starting is important when you are learning the different patterns etc but, at some point, you have to learn how to link bar one to bar two to bar three etc and reading one bar perfectly is only useful if you read the next one perfectly as well and so on. Joining them up is an iimportant part of the learning, Reading prose requires you to read the words but also to make sense of the sentences. If we don't learn to join up the words inot a coherent chain, spelling each word will only have limited value. The important thing is that this is an 'as well as' not an 'instead of'.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYc2jR5yGDs&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLFE5B7AAEB570B894[/media] Kermit Driscoll with Bill Frisell. Really creative bass player with chops he never displays.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17306242 $200 shares floatation. I think most of the players on here should get some for free; they have spent so much on Fenders already....

Made me smile, Karl. One of the best sounding Alembics I have heard in a long while.

I never drink so its a no brainer but, seriously, I gig with a lot of different people and rarely come across drinkers who are a problem. One pint or two etc over an evening is fine but the only issue is remaining ready to work. If someone gets pissed, its one warning then, do it a second time and you don't get booked again, however good you are sober.

Did you know Bag End is a literal translation of the French 'cul de sac'? Did you care?

+1 for Wal rhyming with doll. As billyapple says, it is a derivative of the manufacturers name Waller so it figures.

Nice video, Dave.

The 'key' that a song is in does not relate to the chords in the same way as it does the notes. If a chart is in G, the dots would require all Fs to be played as sharps. Nevertheless, if the chart lists a chord as F (not F#) then it is F. The key signature does not change the chord. Not every modulation in a chart results in a change in key signature. I guess it depends on whether the modulation is a momentary transition or a significant change in key.

S'cool.

Minor point but it would be helpful to the uninitiated to either alert them to the fact that WoC is a 12-bar blues or put the chords on the chart, just so people have a reference point. Otherwise, thanks for the link. You may also be interested in this: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mr-P-C-Chambers-Popular-History/dp/1845536363/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331117049&sr=1-8"]http://www.amazon.co...31117049&sr=1-8[/url]

I have no experience of either but i am told Thwaites are helpful and Contrbasse overpriced. Best talk to others with direct experience rather than listen to me.