51m0n

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Excellent, congratulations! 

So did you end up getting a brand new one from BD? 

Yep, like my core kitvto be new. It's the best chance of it not having been abused.

3 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Do you still use a compressor ? 🤗

Not sure yet matey 😆

Mate doesn't bother me, the Trickfish has landed.

🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Clearly not appropriate for your knee - I get that, makes complete sense. In fact I'm the same - I much prefer lugging lightweight gear to rehearsals and gigs.

But that's not the same as making ballsy claims that a D class amp, even of the quality of a TF, is going to blow away something like a Mesa M6 for sheer tone. 

Not quite sure I made a ballsy claim that it would blow away an M6, I said that to my ears it blew away a D800 (oh so blew it away though, the D800 sounded strangled in comparison, so did the Glock, it was almost embarrasing) and to my ears it will give an M6 a damn good run for its money and, to my ears, it will almost certainly be a tone I prefer, because I don't like tubey fuzziness - I do like the way tubes compress as you push them a bit though - can't change what floats you boat though

44 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

 

I hate compressors for what they do and you love them for what they do, so it's going to be a sterile debate.

And if I'm ill informed, which is not the case as I studied their purpose and use (and especially abuse), I can tell you you're mixing an expander and a compressor in the way you explain how they act...

That said you wrote that you would be "considering not using a compressor," meaning that for once in your life you've heard your bass through a non compressing/expanding system and realised what dynamics really means, intrinsically linked to headroom (and power). Ask Anthony JACKSON why he's using tons of power.

Go to a classical concert, or listen to a church organ live, and you'll understand what dynamics is and the unnecessary sound quality destroying power of an expander/compressor even tube multiband type (which are the "best" ones, because of the natural compression of tubes, that I studied too).

If you know your history, you are aware that the expanders/compressors were created to compensate the poor dynamics of broadcasting and then vinyl recording, which by the way, is the worst analogical (organic or natural) reproduction as the bass must be compressed and the highs expanded to be engraved into the groove : that's what for RIAA and other standards were developed. Funny that you always read the exact opposite...

Says the old 53 years old bean, still not deaf at all today thanks to the straight to the amp plugging. And if you want to know, my hearing is also still very very good as my yearly tests proove it (I take great care of my ears).

Have fun with your new amp, which is the most important.

I neither love not hate compressors, they are a tool, used in the right way in the right place they have a huge amount to add that is not just about dynamic control.

If you dont know how a compressor can be able to to do all the things I mentioned, then you are less well informed than me dude , an expander does not do what a compressor does, it is a different tool entirely. Expanders behave completely differently from parallel compression, which is different from multiband compression, which is different from parallel multibrand compression, then there is dynamic EQ of course, but lets just not go there.

Tube type compression ( I assume here you mean vari-mu) is not necessarily the 'best' compressor type for a particular scenario, there are times when you need a FET (its way faster than a Vari-mu typically) or an optical (its 'squishier', has very unique attack/release curves) or even a good VCA. Its all about what you need to do, there are even places where nothing short of a digital compressor will be capable of doing what you need.

Its not enough to study their use, you need to actually learn by using them what works were and when and what helps and what doesn't. You can read how to be a racing driver from books that detail everything about the subject, doesn't mean you can drive a car at all.

I actually go to about 4 to 6 classical concerts a year on average, at least one a year will include a church organ as well as a full orchestra. Its lovely, its live, it has nothing to do with compressors (you do know your ears are the highest functioning compressor/limiter in the world right?). In fact the loudest part of any of these are the percussion pieces, SPL far far louder than the church organ, routinely (8 snare drums and 3 tom players and a couple of bass drums will do that). Interestingly at the volumes these guys routinely reach you can feel your ears compressing everything, its awesome, and fascinating, and, well, compression

As for knowing my history, yep absolutely, more than you would believe, the compression on the Beatles vinyl releases completely blew the Motown mastering engineers minds, their singles were so loud. Don't get me started on how utterly stinky poo vinyl is as a medium, either. There we agree completely.

I am considering not using a compressor with this head because I think it sounds fantastic (well OK the .5k did, I am yet to actually try the 1k, it could be not worth the money), but until I have actually used it in a scenario with a band I am not ruling out a compressor at all, because that would be daft. Tools are there to be used after all!

There are perfectly good reasons to use a compressor, if you know what you are doing. It is not a crutch, it will not destroy dynamics, it will simply help your audience hear you and feel you in the right way. Tube amps are deeply loved, why? The way they distort a signal as they begin to overload quite simply is a form of compression, and, if you know what you are doing, you can dial a very similar thing into a reasonable VCA compressor and have a solid state amp feel like a tube amp, no noticeable compression artifacts at all to hear or feel...

Going by your argument every single piece of music released in the last 70+ years sounds terrible, every guitar amp sounds awful, everything in audio and mastering is just terrible, and its all because of compression. Believe that if you want, but I am not going to be convinced
 

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

The only (two) BC'ers who have ever bought a TF Bullhead are either selling them or have sold them. There's a bunch of us who still have and love our M6s. Quad erat demonstrandum

Ha! OK, that must mean that the lead sled is better?

I have had major surgery on one knee, and am due for plenty more - there is no way at all in that I am going back to an amp that heavy my friend, it instantly fails a far more important requirement than anything else, it has to be schleppable by me with ease

40 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

When it comes to knowing that my M6 is going to comfortably hold its own against your Tricky Bullsh*t Bullhead, now that's a completely different matter 😀

 

Yeah yeah right, ok sure

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Aha! So this is what one of Satan's gonads looks like?

 

Yep, its fine - if you haven't got a clue what you are doing. If you know what you are doing its just going to stop you doing what you want.

Simples.

17 hours ago, pete.young said:

!!!!!!!!!!

Who are you, and what have you done with the real 51m0n?

I drugged him and left him in the cover of his Big Twin 2, which I sewed up.

Mwahahahahahahaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!

19 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Music is all about dynamic, no ? So no need for a compressor as it's a dynamic killer. But I think we'll start an endless game here... And BC is not an audiophile forum, fortunately.

Ah, well now thats is in fact a very ill informed.

You can use a compressor to crush dynamics, it doesn't have to. It can be a transient shaper, a tone changer or sustain enhancer. It entirely depends upon what you need it to do....

Not sure I follow the Robben Ford point though, seriously your fingers are actually expanders rather than compressors, they can make stuff louder, they cant squash the output like a compressor does, its a really different thing than turning a signal down. Its all about transient to signal ratio...

Just now, Hellzero said:

My rig is this : 

Warwick JH PR40 preamp + GSS Sumo 1000 power amp + Audiokinesis Hathor 18134 cabinet : Nothing else.

Tell me, where is the compressor ? 🤔

Ask Robben FORD about the fingers not being compressors... 😉

Ah balls, read your post too quick, apologies!
Thats a nice pre!

Don't get me started on how compressors are every bassists best friend though, we'll be arguing for years (p.s I'm right btw )

48 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Hellzero - well that's told you then! Lol! 

@51m0n

Fyi - I am the proud owner of a Satan's one-knob compressor by TC and finding it a LOT more effective than that Cali posh-boy stuff. But heh I am that same Al Krow who believes ALL compressors are the spawn of the devil.

Back to the plot: seems to me you're very focused on a great preamp. Fair do's.

In which case why not a Monique M700? There's even one in the FS.

@both of you

There's a lot of cash flying around on this thread. One of us is going to be out of pocket, but at least beers will have been bought 🍻

I looked at the Monique, little too rich for me right now, plus I really really really want switchable eq frequencies, or  better yet sweepable (but they aren't fashionable at the moment) or better yet a fully parametric 4 or 5 band eq (I am greedy af when it comes to eq)...

The m700 is certainly going to be a very nice sounding amp, but it is not going to do what I want quite I think, and for that money it would have to be spot on...

19 minutes ago, la bam said:

Helix Stomp into whatever power amp you want.

Unbeatable.

Nope, nope nope nope nope...

Modelling is even more stuff that can/will go wrong

14 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

@51m0n I don't give a sh*t about compressors as I NEVER use them. Hey, man, I've got fingers, you know, these are the best compressors on earth. I also have to fight with sound engineers for recordings or concerts as I don't want a f*cking compressor in the chain that will destroy my sound, being a fretless player it's even more important to have full control over dynamics.

You don't have to convince me about the preamp in the Trickfish as I know it very well. It's just the Mike Pope Flexcore preamp which is the best and most transparent preamp (along with the Warwick JH PR40 preamp) : I've been claiming it for years.

It was just first for stating the real power of the Trickfish and its Pascal Audio power module. 

I know you hate the Warwick LWA1000 look, fixed EQ, two channels and certainly the fact that it's made in China, and I'm not affiliated to them (hate their basses, by the way).

Interesting points, HZ, but if you are using that Warwick you cant disengage that compressor at all, and it affects output level in an odd way according to a lot of internet noise. I don't like that idea.

Also with all due respect your fingers aren't so much compressors as expanders old bean and jolly good ones at that!

Yeah, its totally about the fixed eq points and extra channel and the very peculiar form factor, I admit. The made in China thing isn't great but it could be worse, it could be made by Leyland

31 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

RMS rating for the Trickfish Bullhead 1K and Warwick LWA1000, as they both use the same Pascal Audio power module : http://www.pascal-audio.com/product/s-pro2/

I know, it hurts. How much spare money do you have @Al Krow  ? 😁

That said, @51m0n , I would order a Warwick LWA1000 by Thomann to give it a 30 days try and return it if you don't like it ? Remember it's half the price and the preamp is designed after the Hellborg JH PR40...

But be quick as May day is coming soon... 😱

Mate, we are talking tone above all else. The fact that the Warwick delivers similar power is not the point here at all.

The preamp in the Trickfish is its differentiator here, plus the form factor of the Warwick is complete bonkers bobbins, I have no need for a dodgy one knob compressor (heh, I am that 51m0n who stated loud and clear at a Bash years ago that one knob compressors are Satan's balls, and gave two talks on compression in following Bashes - which I admit bored most people to death, but its not my fault they aren't excited by the difference between a true vari-mu compressor and a FET now is it ;)) and I don't need two channels in an amp, waste of space more crap to go wrong. Nah that Warwick's front end  is stupid design all over, two channels each with 4 band fixed eq points? Well they are going to be significantly worse designed and implemented than the preamp in the Trickfish with its 4 band eq with switchable eq centers and differing Q's. I'd be willing to bet the difference in cash between them

35 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Well when you've got your TF, I look forward to an opportunity to A/B them. If my Mesa M6 (and I'm not talking about the D800 / D800+ series here which are half the price of the M6) doesn't match or exceed the TF for tone then ALL your beers for that night will be on me. And I'll likely get a TF myself - lol! 

You're on!

BTW at 25lbs for the rack mount version giving you 600w @ 4 ohms vs 6.2lbs and something around 1Kw @ 4 ohms you can keep the M6
I will happily A/B the tone though, because it seriously blew away the D800 for tone for me, by far the best preamp in a bass head I have heard yet...

5 minutes ago, chris_b said:

IMO most amps would work ell with your cab. I use Aguilar AG700, TH500 and Thunderfunk amps with my BF cabs. Always a top quality sound.

Oh yeah, I am nit picking here, all these amps are seriously capable, but if I am putting up serious cash, I want the tone to be absolutely the best I can get for my cash as far as my ears are concerned

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Get a used Mesa M6 and be done with it. Pair it with a VK210 or a Berg 212 (or similar) and your ears will love you forever  

Mate, the M6 doesn't come close to my requirements list (the eq is way to restrictive, I am a sound engineer first, bassist second after all). Plus I tried a Mesa alongside Glockenklang and Trickfish together and the Trickfish tone was way way way better. The big claim is that its a really flat preamp, which it may be, but if it is then all the others I tried were boosted in the mids/upper mids and significantly shy in the deep bass in comparison. I couldn't swear as to which is truly flatter when set flat, but the Trickfish was far nicer than everything else I have tried (including Darkglass and Aguilar now).

With my sa450 I have to use quite a bit of eq, and some compression cleverness to get a truly exceptional tone. Now, fo rthe first time in 25 years of playing I am considering not using a compressor because I might not need one all the time to get the sound I want and the playing feel I want. First time. Ever. Its not that the Trickfish compresses (at all) its just such a truly phenominal tone that I may well get away without the compressor at last.

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@51m0n so you come to a decision then?  

Still waiting for a trickfish 1k to get to bassdirect to try it out, glad I didn't hold my breath ...

Had to gig with a Quilter BB800 last Saturday - loud as nuts with a BF Big Twin II, but not as clean a tone intrinsically from that amp as I would like - definitely not a hardship to play but not quite my ideal. Got some comments on the bass tone being massive and superb, but still not quite what I am really after as my base tone.

Errr, interesting one on Saturday night...

Private Party, supposed to be us headlining, one other band and a few people having a bit of a busk/jam earlier in the evening. That's what was arranged. Week before the gig our trumpet player realises she is double booked, luckily just round the corner so as long as we go on at our allotted 11:00pm start all is good.

Everyone is there for the soundcheck, no sign of the geezer that booked us, sound guy already very stressed, venue owner is at least as stressed and already talking about shutting the evening down - he has been waiting for about 3 hours for some comms with the booker. Meanwhile every ten minutes another couple of chaps turn up with guitars or drum kits or what have you.

All the signs are there, the wheels have well and truly come off this one! We get on stage to do our soundcheck and lo and behold the PA has a desk with 9 functioning channels!! We are a 7 piece band FFS, we run 18 channels into our mixer for a pub gig (IEMs require this kind of thing for everyone to be happy, but its worth it in our experience). There will need to be compromises, sure, but really! I choose to forego the PA - with a Big Twin II and a Quilter, I am very confident that I have got enough grunt for the quite large venue. This is absolutely the only thing I am confident about at this point.

At this point a couple more full bands turn up with a ton of gear each - the sound guy looks about ready to quit...

An hour after this our man turns up, with a full entourage of party goers. He is in no fit state to really organise taking a leak, and can't cope with the immediate barrage of questions. I hang back, two groups leave with their kit. I pin him for the fee, and he pays half up front. He then explains that he is charging £5 on the door - for his own party (?!?!?!?!) - to recoupe, we will be paid the rest of our fee when its been made. Hmmmmmmm.... Really? I explain we will be going on at 11:00, because that's what we agreed with him, and that none of our gear is to be used by anyone else (because we haven't agreed to that at all and this is well out of hand and there is no way I am going to let a bunch of unknowns have a crack on my gear - the amp is borrowed anyway, its not mine to lend).

He then proceeds to play a set of terribly performed covers of Beatles songs with some of the aforementioned busker types. Dear God. I am not keen on the Beatles'  efforts on their own songs, but this is some new and truly awful Hell. The single worst effort at Hey Jude I have ever heard. No amount of money is worth this!

Whilst this is going on two more groups of buskers and another band walk. Thinning the heard is a very good thing, so ta-taaa!

So there is a lot of people milling around with assorted gear, this makes me nervous, we ensure we have a watcher over the kit in the green room and another over the kit on the stage for the entire evening, how tedious, and rotate going for food. But at least things are moving now. And we can see the people turning up and turning away when they find out they aren't coming to a party, but instead coming to a gig played by a bunch of buskers having a dodgy jam. Another band storms out, the herd is fully thinned down now

Finally a band proper goes on, they are a glam rock covers band, and have all the gear on to make that very obvious, lots of Sweet, T-Rex, Bowie, good singers, great rhythm section, its not my all time favourite set, but they are very good at what they do, and people start actually coming in to the venue, handing over cash, even having a boogie for a bit of the set. Things may be looking up. When they come off its clear they have had a great time too, really nice bunch too.

Birthday boy has another crack after them, couple of bluesy tracks, way better than the earlier effort, then it our turn. He hands over the remainder of our fee just as I am setting up my pedal board. Result!

After all this utter chaos and uncertainty (we would have walked too to be honest, but to be fair it was a long drive to not end up playing), we ended up starting our set at 11:02pm! Good God!
Our set is completely redesigned and re-organised for this gig, we only have an hour and half rather than the usual 2 and a quarter hours to fill, so anything that isn't a funk monster track has been binned, the transitions are great fun and a nice change. We don't know quite how this is going to work but we have a decent idea it should really work. And, it really really does, we get a bunch of people dancing from the get go really enjoy the entire set, couple of squeaky moments mainly because the onstage sound is pretty much garbage (two monitors, and nothing for the drummer so he can't hear a damn thing properly).

Come the end of the set we sell a few CDs have a chat to the revellers, and for the first time I can remember 3 people come over and talk to me specifically about the bass sound, which they reckon was immense, and superb. Kinda make up for a lot of the grief!

Like I say, a really weird one, and we have decided we aren't going to do another party again without some very specific conditions, and if that means we never do another party again, I will be fine with that!!!!

My eldest has one and a BB2, great portable rig, but I find it a little harsh in the highs and upper mids.

Not terribly so, but more than I would prefer...

I really don't like Ampeg.

Especially the SVT.

There you go 😀

Love marmite though 🤩🤩🤩

6 minutes ago, richrips said:

Hi All, 

Anyone have long-term experience and comparisons with the Warwick?

I'm in a similar situation to the OP, looking for a new amp of similar spec. I've seen the Warwick LWA1000 on Thomann and it seems like incredible value. The two channels looks somewhat superfluous compared to say the Quilter BB800, but then since it comes with a foot-pedal to switch channels, it basically saves ever needing an eq pedal on the pedalboard as you have two sounds ready to go, great for a varied setlist. I can't seem to find many long-term user-reviews online so any LWA1000 users please chime in!

At less than £400, why shouldn't I buy the Warwick? 

Cheers,

Rich

Other than the form factor, which personally makes me very uncomfortable?

It seems to be too good to be true, so I did a bit of searching into any issues people are finding with it, quite a lot of noise about compressors and power amp clipping and lots of requests for a schematic. That puts me right off my pie personally...
Obviously I am an ancient and wizened old grumpy bastard and it might all be a lot of smoke with no fire, but I wont risk my cash on anything with a lot of noise about it. Trickfish offer a 5 year warranty on their kit as standard. Suits me!