Silent Fly

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328277321' post='1524819'] Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this SF (...)[/quote] It is a pleasure Discreet. If you need more information please feel free to ask. [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328277321' post='1524819'](...) reading this thread it looks like the unit goes between the bass and your pre-amp/DI, like a conventional pedal? Which means that the extraneous subsonic noise we are trying to remove is coming from the bass, obviously? If you're using other effects, would the unit go pre- or post these?[/quote] There are different opinions about it. I use it at the first pedal - just after the bass. Other people use it between preamp and amp, other as the least effect of the pedalboard. I recommend my customers to try it in different places.

A lot of interesting points Discreet. I’ll try to address all of them. [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328266398' post='1524569'](...) a lot of bass cabs (or drivers at least) have a lower limit of 50Hz or so and won't reproduce frequencies below this. Does this mean the unit would not be necessary if that were the only sound source for bass guitar? (...)[/quote] The Thumpinator filter would be useful for two reasons: - The amp would still send the frequencies below the lower limit of the cab to the cab. The energy that the cones cannot transform in sound is converted in heat. This, in the log run, may shorten the life of the cones. - Amp and preamp process the subsonic noise as well – even if the cab cannot convert it sound waves. Usually, if the cab cannot go low as we would like we boost the bass frequency with the EQ on the bass and/or on the amp. This unfortunately boosts the subsonic noise as well. If the subsonic noise is removed, the headroom available increase. [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328266398' post='1524569'](...) And if this is the case, would it then be an advantage to have the unit when using PA support, as the bass would be sent to the desk, where the PA had a lower limit of say, 20Hz? (...)[/quote] Generally speaking, if the PA can go low to 10Hz, it is a good idea removing the low frequency noise. The main reason is that the bass drum uses that frequency space. If the bass produces the same frequency, the two signals may clash. [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328266398' post='1524569'](...) Or would the FOH engineer have taken care of everything below around 30Hz anyway?[/quote] It depends. Some sound engineers have their system fine tuned to perform at its best but this is a rare exception. Moreover, in my experience, analogue mixers don’t have suitable HP filters tuned for bass guitar. If don’t have an amp and you play directly in the PA removing the subsonic noise is good thing to do. Apart from frequency overlap considerations, it is likely that a properly filtered signal will make the input stage of the mixer clip less. The sound engineer will increase the input gain and you will get a signal with a better signal/noise ratio.

[quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1328267001' post='1524585'] Hi Silent Fly many thanks for taking the time to respond. The Jeff Berlin has a: [left][b][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1]VLE FILTER LEVEL CONTROL KNOB[/size][/font][/size][/font][/b][/left] [b][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1]VPF FILTER LEVEL CONTROL KNOB[/size][/font][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1]Does anyone know if this does what a thuminator does? I just normally twiddle until it sounds ok?[/size][/font][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1]Ta[/size][/font][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1][font=MyriadPro-Bold][size=1]Mike[/size][/font][/size][/font][/b] [/quote] My Markbass F1 has the same controls. One is Low-pass filter for a solt of "vintage simulation". The other is a scoop control that gives a more modern sound.

No problem Monckyman I like to discuss with people that are not afraid to say what they think. I think it is down to the words we use more than anything else. I would use the words “more than I am ready to spend”, “more than I can afford” or “more than I usually spend for a pedal”. “Expensive” or “cheap” require the comparison with at least another product that performs the same functionalities. It like saying that a Ferrari is expensive. It is certainly well above what I can afford if I need to buy a car. It is more than I am ready to spend and it is vastly more than I ever spent in car. Is it expensive? Well, in my opinion it isn’t. If you compare it with a car with similar performance, reputation and prestige, it is “relatively” affordable. One has to be ready to spend that kind of money of course. Try this test. Go in a Lamborghini show room and say to the sales person exactly these words: “Great car but daft price. £200000 for a car ffs? You could do the same job with a half decent car for fraction of the price. OK not as fast and comfortable but still..”. Thy this other test. Go in Armani show room and say to the sales person “Great suit but daft price. £2000 for a suit ffs? You could do the same job with a half decent suit for fraction of the price. OK not as cool and comfortable but still..”. I am sure you get my point.

Thanks for your interests in the [sfx] micro-Thumpinator. I'll try to address the questions/points. I'm sure I'll forget something [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1327334336' post='1509480'] Great product but daft price. £109 for a high pass filter ffs? You could do the same job with a half decent P.A cross over for half the price. OK not as small and portable but still.. [/quote] You are of course entitled to your opinion Monckyman but I would like to ask you two questions: 1. The price of the micro-Thumpinator is daft compared to what product? 2. It may sound a silly question but how do you know that "You could do the same job with a half decent P.A cross"? In my opinion, but I may be wrong, a P.A. crossover (half decent or otherwise) cannot do what the Thumpinator filter does. A few comments about it: a. I can design crossovers and I designed the micro-Thumpinator. Simply based on the circuit design differences, there are no off-the-shelf crossovers that can do what the Thumpinator filter does. b. Based on the specs, if a crossover would operate like a Thumpinator filter, it would be a very badly designed crossover. Conversely, if the Thumpinator was designed on the same principles of a crossover it would perform poorly. c. You probably didn’t imply it but someone may assume that if a "half decent" product can do that the micro-Thumpinator does, the micro-Thumpinator might be a less than a half-decent product. I would like to clarify that the [sfx] micro-Thumpinator is a professional product. It uses excellent quality part (e.g. gold-plated jacks) that standard pedals usually don’t use. d. Just for the sake of the argument, let's assume that a generic crossover can perform Thumpinator filtering. As size does matter and there aren't any crossovers the size of a micro-Thumpinator, there aren't any crossovers that can do what a micro-Thumpinator does. English is not my first language. Could you tell me what "ffs" stands for please? [quote name='charic' timestamp='1327334412' post='1509483'] Talking about the SFX pedal? Yeah I've thought the prices were a bit steep myself, they do look like great quality though. [/quote] I understand that, in absolute terms, you may find them more expensive than what you are ready to spend. However, I am sure you agree, it's a little bit difficult assess a price without the comparison with product that offers similar functionalities and quality level. [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1327339750' post='1509602'] sorry if I'm getting this wrong. Does it take out the frequencies that make the cones move? And we can't hear these frequencies anyway? (...) [/quote] Q: Does it take out the frequencies that make the cones move? A: Up to a certain point. The cone still moves, otherwise we couldn't hear any sound. It takes out the frequencies that make the cone move unnecessarily. In other words, the slow cone movements that are not strictly related to notes produced by the bass are removed. Q: And we can't hear these frequencies anyway? A: If the amp and the cabinet could reproduce them we could probably feel them more then hear them. But it would be noise not a musical note. [quote name='Dread Bass' timestamp='1327362783' post='1510177'] I believe ACG/East preamps have this kind of filter built in as well. [/quote] I don’t know the technical details of the ACG preamp so I can only speculate. As far as I know, the ACG/East preamp has a high pass filter that mitigates the subsonic frequencies. I don’t know the cut-off frequency of the filter or its slope though. However, I don’t think it is the same circuit. If it was, the batteries on the ACG preamp wouldn’t last long. [quote name='lollington' timestamp='1327413305' post='1510771']I notice a low cut when using my EBS Multicomp. Does this encorporate a similar cut off or is it just a characteristic of multiband compression?[/quote] I am not sure but I suspect it might be a characteristic of the multiband compression. [quote name='lollington' timestamp='1327413305' post='1510771']The Micro Thumpinator looks bangarang, but it's a pity that it can't run from a 9v battery. [/quote] I don’t see it a bad thing. There are three main reasons: - Size. Without the battery, the unit can be much smaller. - Performance. With an external power supply, the circuit can be designed to use more current and this has an impact on the performance. - Environment. Batteries are an ecological nightmare. [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1327416831' post='1510864'] Here` an example. We listen to CDs recorded at 44.100 or 4800Khz as humans hearing is reckoned to go up to 20KHz and the theory (Nyquist) is we need at least twice the resolution of our upper limit. Now of course we can record at double that, but most people can`t hear the difference and it costs more memory and resources,so we don`t. The bottom end is the same. There are frequencies inaudible (or nearly so) that cost the amplifier a lot of juice to even attempt to reproduce. So the solution is to remove anything below a set frequency (in the Thumpinator I believe it`s 30Hz) and this free`s up a lot of energy that can then go to reproducing frequencies you do want to hear. MM [/quote] It a great description of what the Thumpinator filter can do Monckyman. To be more specific, this happens in the subsonic area of the sound spectrum. When we hit the string two events take place at the same time: the part of the signal related to the note has the maximum voltage and the maximum amount of subsonic noise is generated. When we boost the low frequencies, we boost everything below a certain frequency (say 80 Hz). So we boost both aspects: music content below 80Hz + sub sonic noise. As the two are sent at the same time in the amplification system, they both contribute to make the amp work (and clip). If the subsonic noise is removed, only the note is amplified. The lack of subsonic noise leaves more headroom for the note. [quote name='daz' timestamp='1327377237' post='1510287'] So the Boss GEB7 (or similar)wouldnt be up to it, as it starts at 50Hz ? [/quote] It wouldn’t work even it the lowest frequency available was 30Hz. The filter type is different. The Thumpinator filter and equalizers work well together but they cannot be interchanged.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1328202694' post='1523634'] Hi SF, Thanks for the info. [/quote] No problem. It's a pleasure. If you need more information please feel free to contact me via mail (the address is in my signature).

Hello everybody, I’ll try to address all the points you raised. [quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1327918098' post='1518587'] (…) I really like the look of the Thumpinator but we tune to B flat. Would this kill my low note? (…)[/quote] It shouldn’t. The low-Bb is on the limit of the Thumpinator cut frequency but it should go through untouched. [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1327922680' post='1518677'](…) I'd also be interested to know if any 5 string players use the Thumpinator and what it does to the sound of the low B. [/quote] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1328008624' post='1520119'] OK, nevermind the cab stuff, other than Happy Jack, has anyone else first hand experience of a 5 string bass through a Thumpinator? Did it mess with the low B or the low end generally? [/quote] The Thumpinator filtering works on the subsonic content (below the fundamental frequencies of the 5 string bass). I use it with my 5 string (Sadowsky NYC) and the low-B sounds great in active and passive mode. The low-B will not sound weaker, attenuated or processed. On the other side, because the subsonic content is removed, it is likely you will be able to boost the bass frequency without making the amp clip at low volume. [quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1327968723' post='1519831'] What's compression. I have a low pass filter on my Jeff Berlin. Does this work like a thumpinator. I am also using a mk1 barefaced compact and have been complimented on how low I can go. [/quote] I’m not familiar with the amplifier you mentioned but if it has a high-pass filter, it might do something similar to what the Thumpinator filter does. I would be surprised if the circuit is as sophisticated as the Thumpinator but it is possible. [quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1328008917' post='1520129'] I've recorded down to Bb with the Thumpinator - no losses! [/quote] Thanks for making the test TG Flatline. I was almost sure about it but it nice to see the result of a real life test.