mcnach

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1454410472' post='2969393'] Absolutely. To be fair, no matter what amp I've used/borrowed/bought etc, I've never hit the limits as I'm too sensible to try pushing it. I used to practice in a room in Newcastle with a 4 piece punk band and the Ampeg combo they had in the room was way loud enough. It was more than likely 200W, 1x15. I bet that Ray kills through those setups. One thing to test is that the Markbass amps have the classic 'omg this is loud' when you use the master vol, but don't actually get much louder past half way. The Genz is the opposite, and uses the entire dial to gradually raise the volume up to full tilt. I owned a LM3 some time back and it was great though. [/quote] The LM3 continued to get louder way past noon. The Streamliner did not, actually. On my CMD121P combo (LM3 head) it's as you say... anything beyond half-way doesn't get any louder, but that's not what I heard yesterday. The LM3 I own is a 2009 model, while the combo is a 2013, so they use different power amps... not sure if that plays a role...

[quote name='stoo' timestamp='1454402428' post='2969287'] Or, presumably, just use speakers with more displacement? [/quote] yes, but I'm talking about general: - oh, I'm not loud enough, I'll get a more powerful amp. we hear that a lot. And adding more of the same speakers has a much larger effect than most realise. That was the point. [quote name='stoo' timestamp='1454402428' post='2969287'] That said - in the unlikely event I ever needed more volume out of my rig (GK MB500 + 2x Big Baby 2) I'd much prefer to upgrade the amp to an MB800 than to have to carry 4 cabs around instead! [/quote] Those 4 S112 speakers are *tiny*, look at them. Four of them don't take more room than 2x BB2. Look, I've done the Barefaced Compact + BB2 already. It certainly works and it is not big or heavy. But these are much more easy to carry and store, for me (YMMV). More importantly, I actually prefer their sound too. Anyway, my point was not finding out which speakers are most efficient... just that you get more volume by adding another of your existing speakers than by getting an amp with twice the power (at best).

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1454400113' post='2969261'] Exactly what i was thinking [/quote] These cabs are nowhere near as loud as most other single cabs. They sound lovely, but loud they aren't Check out that thread about a room full of amps for comments by others

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1454398089' post='2969249'] I have seen the future... BTW Jose, how have you connected the cabs to get a total load of 8 ohms? I would have thought it would have been 2?! [/quote] I got a box connector from OBMM that allows me to put two cabs in series. So I link each pair of S112 as usual: 4 ohms each pair. Then each pair goes into the box, linking them in series: 8 ohm. Then the box is plugged into the amp. 5 speaker cables, but it works.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1454397500' post='2969246'] Four? Do you play in stadiums..?? [/quote] Ha! Of course not. I do occasionally play in some midsize venues without PA support and frankly 2x S112 don't have the oomph. To give you an idea, over the past year I have mostly used a MarkBass CMD121P combo, tiny single 12". This was purely stage monitoring for myself, or a couple of not loud bar gigs (think 'piano bar' situation). I have occasionally added a TKS 1126 to the combo for some bar gigs, and that was enough. A few times, however, I've played larger places without adequate PA support for bass (think village hall type of place). That's where I'd bring the Barefaced BigBaby2 + Compact which dealt with that just fine (1x12" + 1x15"). Now, the S112 sounds great and has lovely presence, but loud it isn't. It also has a relatively low power limit which I can see would be easy to overpower and damage if someone wants to get louder or bassier than they can. They do not fill a big room with deep bass, as you know. I do not want deep bass, but I do want some more volume for those other gigs... and I sometimes end up letting others use my gear, usually people I know and I'm comfortable with... but I'll feel better if there are more speakers to distribute the load and make it harder for someone to push too hard. That's not a primary reason, but a bonus. So, with 4 of these I feel I no longer need to have other 'bigger' speakers, and as a result I've actually downsized. Plus these speakers are so easy to carry, that even 4 of them felt like nothing. Give me these over a 4x10 any day! I'll still use 2x cabs most times. But with an extra 2 I know I can cover the other gigs where I need some more and not requiring a separate bigger rig. It makes sense to me

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1454396209' post='2969239'] In the nicest possible way; Jose, you are indeed bonkers [/quote] I get that a lot

Glad you enjoyed the 1126, Karl! They are really nice cabs! As for me... I also enjoyed your S112s too Last week I used just 2x S112 and a Streamliner 900 for rehearsal in a big room with a loud band. They did the job, no doubt, but I could tell that they will not have enough oomph for other than onstage monitoring and small gigs. So I got Karl's pair of black S112s to add to my blue ones. The temptation to create a ridiculous megastack was great: But other than for the photograph, I didn't really do anything with the cabs in that configuration. I could have tried them like this too: but I didn't. I just used them like this: The cabs are 8ohm each and both my amps, a Streamliner 900 and a MarkBass LM3 only do 4ohm minimum, so the speakers were linked as 2 pairs in parallel (4 ohm each), in series, giving a load of 8 ohm. Therefore the Streamliner outputs 5-600W max and the LM3 300W. First impression: wow, this is LOUD. The same character of the stack of 2x S112 was there... just a lot louder. A lot. No lack of bottom end either. I thought it didn't sound quite as clear as the 2x stack did, but I'm not sure if that's because of the 8ohm load (vs 4ohm of the 2x stack) or the orientation/configuration of the cabs. But it sounded very good through either amp. And did I say it was very loud? I was surprised to find a lot of bottom end compared to the 2x stack alone. Maybe that was just the result of being louder? I don't know. I certainly didn't feel I wanted to add more bass, unlike when I used the 2x stack. I used my Stingray with the controls set pretty much flat (I can tell because I have a bypass switch, so I can compare), and the following settings on the amps: On the Streamliner the extra gain button was OFF. With those settings both amps sounded just about as loud... but the difference is that if I turn the volume up on the Streamliner, it barely changes, while the LM3 had quite a bit more volume in store. The gain on the LM3 was set to just before clipping if I slapped. On the Streamliner, I could still crank up both preamp gain/volume knobs so I'm sure the Streamliner could match the volume of the LM3. Can it get louder? Perhaps when engaging the extra gain switch... but I was after a pretty clean sound, so I kept the gain button off. That produced a loud, punchy, meaty bass sound that worked well for RATM songs. 4x cabs seems a bit overkill... but look at their size. They're still a pretty compact rig, very easy to transport and carry (each cab is small and light). Two cabs for onstage monitoring (gigs with PA support, which is most) or some small gigs without PA support, and another two cabs for bigger ones. I have a Wolfcraft foldable trolley I can use when there are no spare hands to help me out and I need to carry everything myself... but being so portable, I'm finding that even the singer lends a hand! I enjoyed this. Can't wait to actually gig them!

Ah... four of these sound amazing, and bloody loud too!!! No, I did not use them like that I used them like this: Either the Streamliner or the MarkBass, both sounded big, and I can't say that one was louder than the other, really, despite the LM3 being 300W into 8 ohm and the Streamliner 500-600W into 8 ohm, which illustrates nicely that if the amp has a reasonable amount of power already and you want louder... you're better off simply adding more speakers.

Just add more speakers! End of story. I just wanted to share a little experience I had tonight... which even 'though I knew to be true, I hadn't really compared first hand like I did today. Location: large rehearsal room with a full band (RATM covers, loud). Last week I used 2x TKS S112 speakers and the Streamliner 900. Each speaker is 8 ohm, rated up to 250W, so 4 ohm load. Streamliner can output 900W into 4 ohm. So I did not push it too hard just in case, but the two cabs sounded good yet it was clear they would not cut it in anything but small gigs or for onstage monitoring. They're very small and light cabs, so it would not be fair to ask too much of them. They sound great, to me, without a huge amount of bottom end compared to other cabs. Today I had another two of those cabs, and an additional amp: a MarkBass Little Mark III (LM3) rated at 500W into 4 ohm or 300W into 8 ohm. The speakers were stacked and connected as two pairs, each in parallel (4 ohms each), connected in series (total 8ohm). Streamliner, max ~500-600W into 8ohm... LOUD beast. So much louder than into two speakers. Louder and deeper. I was still cutting down bass as I often do with the Streamliner. Despite going into 8ohm instead of 4ohm, adding the extra two speakers made the rig sound a lot louder. It wasn't a matter of 'I think it's louder'. No. It was very much louder. Then I took the LM3... 300W into 8ohm. LOUD beast. Seriously, I cannot really say which one gets louder, the Streamliner of the MarkBass... but I felt the MarkBass was 'heftier' and could get louder than the Streamliner. Not so much into two speakers... but into four, either amp seemed just as loud, so any difference must not be that big. Which is what you expect, really... but often a lot of us think "oh, I'll get the 800W amp over the 500W because it'll get louder and I might need that sometime". Nah. Whether it's 300W or 600W... get the amp that sounds best, and figure out the best cab solution for you. If you need louder, just find a way to add more cabs.

[quote name='davegriffiths91' timestamp='1454275138' post='2968208'] Hey folks. Recently aquired a new cab from a fellow basschatter, genz benz 1x15 focus to be precise. I'm running this with a genz benz shuttle head and took it for its first gig outing last night. I absolutely adored the sound I was getting from it however I did encounter a problem. All that volume and vibration has made the head move around a little and I am worried that in the heat of the moment it may fall off the cab and damage it! Has any body experienced this and does any one have any fixes for it? [/quote] I fixed that for my Shuttle by replacing the feet: they were hard plastic with no grip. I put rubber ones and no more issues. I made a thread about it: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/231593-replacing-feet-on-a-genz-benz-shuttle-92-with-pictures/page__p__2396357"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/231593-replacing-feet-on-a-genz-benz-shuttle-92-with-pictures[/url]

After an interesting three way conversation involving a variety of cabs, possibly going in various directions, Geoff bought my dear Barefaced Compact. Great guy to deal with, and having the opportunity to meet him in person was a bonus I hope you enjoy the Compact!

... and now I have 4x of these S112 cabs. Tonight at rehearsal I'll use 2x as I would normally, and then all 4 together. Just because I can and why not... and see whether the extra volume will be enough to allow me to not need other bigger cabs.

[quote name='DiMarco' timestamp='1454107994' post='2966651'] Short answer to "Could you turn your backline down a bit?" is NO. Band runs the show, not the soundguy. He will not get sub lows coming off the stage. We can haz shelving EQ cutting off any subs from the bass stack on stage. Why do we need a 250w all valve head? Because we can and it sounds dope. Next. [/quote] Why do you bother with a sound guy if you don't let him manage the sound? Great attitude, I bet you sound great

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1454101020' post='2966547'] Eighteen replies, and no-one has mentioned Barefaced? Oh the shame........ [/quote] naughty

Good to see there are quite a few more than I expected! Right now, my eye would be on the Mesa Subway D800. Purely because it's the one I had a chance to hear a bit of recently and it gave me a good impression.

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1454083655' post='2966325'] Can't imagine turning up at an orchestra rehearsal with an electric bass and amp - I think most would frown when you walked in door [/quote] only if you're not bringing an 8x10 cab with you...

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1454081081' post='2966281'] I play in an orchestra! When there is a solo woodwind part the last thing anyone tolerates is a whirring fan! [/quote] can't you just whistle along the woodwind to mask the fan noise?

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1454071785' post='2966080'] Nope - they're pretty much the same. [/quote] Interesting! Thanks

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1454070439' post='2966035'] They're pretty much the same, IMO. Any difference I heard could probably be attributed to the drivers being closer to ear level. [/quote] but did you notice a significant increase in the low end?

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1453989723' post='2965029'] I wish more amps didn't have fans. Fan noise annoys me so much. Tecamp, Demeter and PJB manage it. [/quote] You're not playing loud enough then