Status = graphite

[EBS_freak]

After reading the What Status Have You got thread... it got my wondering about the "graphite" element/selling point.

Am I right in thinking that they aren't really graphite - every one that I have played/taken apart etc, seem to be cast resin with a carbon fibre sheet over the top. I think it was OutToPlayJazz's comment which got me thinking. Are you hearing the sound of the carbon fibre covering... or the resin...? Or the combination of the both. Do the wooden tops really make that difference to the sound? I'm pretty sure the biggest tonal differences in a bass comes from the neck... which is why Status all have that signature Status "graphite" sound regardless of the woods on the body etc. (Obviously the circuit is a big player in this too)

I'm not trying to wind anybody up or anything - I'm genuinely quite interested that's all!

[OutToPlayJazz]

Yes, as far as I know, the modern "all-graphite models" are a foam-injected hollow core of some kind. I'm not up on the exact technique of how they make these things, but I know the original ones were solid block graphite and thusly very heavy!

Rob always says that the biggest part of the basses is the pickups and electronics & you can hear that even in the older wooden necked models. They all have that Status signature sound, but there's also something in the woods used on S2's. The multi laminate sounds different with different top woods used, for instance. Still the "Status" sound, but a little different in character from bass to bass. The all-graphite models (Streamline/Stealth) also seem to possess a darker character with more "shimmer" to the sound. This could be because of the increased use of graphite on these basses, so you get the same resonance across the whole instrument, as opposed to just through the neck/spine.

The KingBass is an interesting case in point as well - Again, it still has the classic Status sound, but with the two piece sandwich construction it sounds dryer to me. The pickup placement is different on these instruments as well.

Hope that helps a bit

Rich.

Edited July 6, 2010 by OutToPlayJazz

[EBS_freak]

I thought they were injected moulded - the foam inside being the yellowy type stuff?

I agree that the pickups and electronics are the biggest part of the sound - exactly the same with the GBs. All sound slightly different but all have "that" GB sound. All my GB basses sound "GB" but are subtly different. OK different woods and though-neck vs bolt on must all be contributing factors -but take this for an example:

Imagine two basses made from the same wood, same shape, same construction, same everything... they can sound wildly different. Why? Because wood is an organic matter. Two swamp ash basses can sound different due to the where the swamp ash has been harvested. For example, wood at the bottom of the tree is going to be more dense, older etc than that at the top.

Similar observations can be made with Status. Everybody goes how replacing their Jazz and Musicman necks with Status neck gives them a "Status" sound. I'm not overly convinced - there is defo a change but they don't sound Status unless you load them with Status pickups and circuit. Even then, pickup spacing and alignment (and neck constuction) don't give the exact same sound as the 100% Status models. Given the fact that Status are moulded from a manmade material, this should make each bass more similar in construction and hence variation between basses is reduced. The wood tops could make a difference but how much... well, I don't know. Rich seems to suggest that there is a subtle difference - and I'd tend to agree.

Of course, the other random factor is the pickups and tolerances of the components in the circuit. Even though circuits can be made to the same specification, they can sound different. How different in terms of tone, I wouldn't know or wouldn't even know how to begin in terms of quantifying how much. As for pickups... well, that's even more random!

[OutToPlayJazz]

Yes, you have some very good points there - All I can tell you is that the graphite necks (whether through neck or bolt on) all seem to have this particular resonance and massive sustain. Add that to the Status circuit & the woods (where applicable) and you have the Status sound. I can see what people mean about the change when they add a graphite neck to a Jazz or Stingray, etc. The sound of the graphite neck does make it noticable more resonant, clearer & definitely more Status, but yes, there's always going to be a difference to the full Status bass with Rob's electronic package. I find it odd too, as even the single pickup, wooden, passive Sharks have the Status sound to them!

They really are a hard one to work out. As we've both stated, they all have their own little characters, but there are so many factors. With something like a wooden Jazz bass it's easy. If you want the Marcus Miller sound (for instance) you just get something with 70's spacing & a nitro finish. Job done

I guess the archetypal Status sound comes from a multi-laminate body (usually mahogany core, walnut centre block & exotic top wood cap), the graphite neck & Rob's soapbar pickups combined with the board TB42/302.

I think you need to phone Status if you want to go into any further detail - I'm just a professional musician!

[EBS_freak]

I'm just musing really!

I did really hanker for a "Statusfied" jazz bass but that 5 string jazz neck has never materialised - loaded with soapbars and Status circuit... and I'd be there. But then again, you may as well just got for a full on Status then. The indecision!

I guess I just wanted a reason to buy something I guess and make it into a little bit of a project at the same time!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='887319' date='Jul 6 2010, 02:02 PM']Do the wooden tops really make that difference to the sound?[/quote]

The only possible answer to that is "Oddle Floddle-dop."

[crez5150]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='887376' date='Jul 6 2010, 03:05 PM']The only possible answer to that is "Oddle Floddle-dop."[/quote]


It's sad that this made me laugh.......

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='887343' date='Jul 6 2010, 02:38 PM']I thought they were injected moulded - the foam inside being the yellowy type stuff?...........[/quote]

I had to change the pickups on my '93 Series 1 when I first got it and was surprised to see a yellowy hard but spongy looking substance under the carbon fibre weave, I think I've seen something similar in a few broken Formula 1 tubs and suspension arms.

I guess if the necks are largely hollow you have to fill them with something, I wonder how the fingerboards are fixed on? I was surprised when Rob said I could have maple or rosewood fingerboards, I assumed it would have to be the synthetic phenowood they used to use.

I always suspected the weave was purely cosmetic although the chrome weave option (Retroglide Kingbass) is an additional layer that goes over the normal weave if I remember correctly.

Great basses though, however they're constructed!

[EBS_freak]

After reading about making graphite bike frames, I think that I have worked it out. The yellow spongy substance appears to serve as a lightweight frame on which the resin and stronger carbon fibre is applied. The "sponge" frame is lightweight but strong enough to hold the carbon fibre in place until it cures. I'm thinking that once cured, the actual function of the "sponge" is kinda obsolete and it's the cured carbon that provides the strength. Pretty cool. I'm thinking that this process is done under vacuum.

As for the fingerboards, if you get the right glue, you'll stick the wood to the resin/carbon fibre (whatever material is showing) - simple.

For a bolt on, I'm guessing the heel of the neck is strengened (maybe solid resin) to enable it to be drilled (having said that, resin in a bitch to drill).

DISCLAIMER - I've not inspected one in detail so can't really comment and so this is all hypothetical and may not be anywhere near the method Status use.

I think Gus use the same principle but with cedar instead of the "sponge". I think Enfields are the same... in fact, I suspect that Enfield necks are done by Gus.

Either way, it's all good stuff Project anybody?

Edited July 6, 2010 by EBS_freak

[BigRedX]

The Enfield necks are indeed made by Simon Farmer of Gus.

Interestingly one of the comments that always comes up regarding the Gus guitars and basses is how "traditional" they can sound considering their futuristic looks.

Interestingly [url="http://www.basslab.de"]BassLab's[/url] instruments are made hollow (including the necks) although their "Tunable Mixed Composite" contains things other than carbon/graphite.

[EBS_freak]

Enfields and Gus in partnership. Now isn't that interesting? It's rare to see something being outsourced from the Sims empire!

Basslab - I remember seeing them and playing them in Frankfurt. There's something defo different going on with those things in the construction stakes. Whether I like them or not... well, that's a different question. Each to their own! I'm guessing that they have some sort of lightweight frame going on which remains under the composite. The frame is maybe not one solid frame, but two vacuumed formed halves put together? It would help explain how some of the more intricate shapes are formed whilst remaining fundamentally hollow. Again, I'm guessing that there are solid points at the under the bridge and the like.

A lot of "guesses" in there!

All interesting stuff!

Edited July 6, 2010 by EBS_freak

[OutToPlayJazz]

An ex Status employee mentioned on the other thread that his original S2000 had a wood core with a graphite shell around it. That explains the increased weight of some of the older instruments.

Project? I don't think I'll be sawing any of my necks in half in a hurry!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='887651' date='Jul 6 2010, 06:53 PM']An ex Status employee mentioned on the other thread that his original S2000 had a wood core with a graphite shell around it. That explains the increased weight of some of the older instruments.

Project? I don't think I'll be sawing any of my necks in half in a hurry! [/quote]

That sounds like the process that Gus are using. I read that they use cedar wood - makes sense - very stable, lightweight... being under a carbon fibre shell, it doesn't matter that it's not that interesting to look at. I wonder what Status were using at the time that wood was inside? Then again, wood all weighs differently as mentioned before... adds to chaos theory of how the final bass will sound.

You never really know what a bass will sound like until it is strung up. Wonder if this holds true for all graphite guitars. I wonder if things like these - [url="http://www.blackbirdguitar.com/superom.html"]http://www.blackbirdguitar.com/superom.html[/url] - always sound the same.

Project? Aw come on, you have plenty of basses. You not up for disecting one of them?