Sanding a painted finished neck

[erisu]

Ok guys, I've searched the forum for topics on sanding the back of a painted glossed neck and the only topic I found closest is: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48665&hl=glossy"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...5&hl=glossy[/url] but I think this person's bass has a gloss feel build up from playing the bass?

Anyway, I have a bass with a white finished gloss finish and it's really hard to play when I'm sweaty as most of you have experienced playing a glossed neck. I want to take the gloss finish off completely and seal it again giving a satin finish. I guess I should start with a 600 grit sandpaper and proceed to 400... now it's not just the gloss laquer finish that's there as there's a white finish beneath the laquer. Once I have actually cut through to the laquer and proceed to the paint, which grit of sandpaper should I use?

It'll be my first time sanding a neck down and I will be testing it on my SG copy guitar first

[erisu]

Someone over at Talkbass actually used a paint stripper to strip his Musicman SUB bass using:

[url="http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xj7/R-100164441/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053"]http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xj7...catalogId=10053[/url]

Does anyone know if there is there anything similar like this in UK? I'm guessing homebase or wikes might have something?

[7string]

No need to take all the finish off.

Grab some 0000 wire wool and rub the back of the neck with it. It'll take the sticky gloss off, but they'll still be some varnish on the wood. Takes about 20 seconds and makes a huge difference.

[Moos3h]

'Sanding' may be too much for it. I've found in the past that a scourer pad (those double ones with a sponge on one side) for doing the dishes works very well. It's abrasive enough to 'flatten' the gloss, but not too abrasive that means you end up making a total mess.

[erisu]

Thanks guys. So if a simple scourer pad or 0000 wire wool can take off the laquer finish on the neck... what about the white paint finish on the neck? Do I keep using the pad or wire wool until it feels like I've reached the raw wood?

[Al Heeley]

You'll go through into the primer/sealer first but no need to do that. Just rub the gloss off the finish as per the above posts, I would not rub it back to bare wood unless the colour really offends you. Once you get the gloss off the neck will feel wonderful - I do that to all my guitar necks, and I use a green scotchbrite fine abrasive pad, like the pan scorer thingy. Works a treat to cure sticky neck syndrome

[erisu]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='671689' date='Dec 1 2009, 11:04 PM']You'll go through into the primer/sealer first but no need to do that. Just rub the gloss off the finish as per the above posts, I would not rub it back to bare wood unless the colour really offends you. Once you get the gloss off the neck will feel wonderful - I do that to all my guitar necks, and I use a green scotchbrite fine abrasive pad, like the pan scorer thingy. Works a treat to cure sticky neck syndrome[/quote]

So the colour acts like a sealer to the neck I take it? Ideally I'd like to get rid of the colour as well and finish the neck with some satin sealer... im not planning to rub the whole neck of it's laquer finish though... I'm only rubbing the places where my hands will go the most... no higher than the 12th or maybe 14th fret.

[EBS_freak]

Wet and dry. 800. Tape the areas of neck that you don't want to make satin. Dip the wet and dry paper in a warm water/washing up liquid solution. Go over the neck until all the gloss has turned to satin.

Gloss and satin and not necessarily different finishes. They have just been polished to varying amounts.

Edited December 2, 2009 by EBS_freak

[BigRedX]

If your glossy neck feels sticky it because the wrong finish has been used. Most of the basses I use regularly have high-gloss finished neck and none of them feel the slightest bit sticky.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='671864' date='Dec 2 2009, 09:40 AM']If your glossy neck feels sticky it because the wrong finish has been used. Most of the basses I use regularly have high-gloss finished neck and none of them feel the slightest bit sticky.[/quote]

Indeed - the above technique leaves the neck looking glossy but gives it a satin feel. At the end of the day, the finish is all likely to be poly.

[erisu]

Brilliant! I'll get around to it tonight and I'll try it on a cheap SG copy guitar I have laying around that has the same poly gloss finished neck like my bass. My main concern is after rubbing away, the neck is still sealed.

If I'm leaving the white finish on, the more I play on the bass and the more I sweat, wouldn't the white finish rub onto my hand and eventually wearing down the paint?

Might rub it down to bare wood if the white finish will eventually rub off and then sealing it with a satin finish on the areas that are exposed.

Edited December 2, 2009 by erisu

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='erisu' post='671891' date='Dec 2 2009, 10:05 AM']Brilliant! I'll get around to it tonight and I'll try it on a cheap SG copy guitar I have laying around that has the same poly gloss finished neck like my bass. My main concern is after rubbing away, the neck is still sealed.

If I'm leaving the white finish on, the more I play on the bass and the more I sweat, wouldn't the white finish rub onto my hand and eventually wearing down the paint?

Might rub it down to bare wood if the white finish will eventually rub off and then sealing it with a satin finish on the areas that are exposed.[/quote]


You don't remove the finish! You just dull it down. Make sure you don't rub through! Take your time and keep your wet and dry paper wet and absolutely without question, use a sanding block to keep things uniform. You may not think much is happening whilst sanding, but dry it down regularly and feel and inspect the neck to see what is happening. You'll soon get the hang of it.

You know those satin finished basses? How do you think that is achieved...?

By the way, one blast on the polishing wheel will bring it back to a high gloss. Poly. It's good stuff.

[erisu]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='671911' date='Dec 2 2009, 10:25 AM']You don't remove the finish! You just dull it down. Make sure you don't rub through! Take your time and keep your wet and dry paper wet and absolutely without question, use a sanding block to keep things uniform. You may not think much is happening whilst sanding, but dry it down regularly and feel and inspect the neck to see what is happening. You'll soon get the hang of it.

You know those satin finished basses? How do you think that is achieved...?

By the way, one blast on the polishing wheel will bring it back to a high gloss. Poly. It's good stuff.[/quote]

Awesome mate! I'm looking forward to this little test project tonight =) I always thought to achieve a satin finish, you put some sort of sealer like a coat or two (not poly) and leave it to dry... No idea you had to rub down to achieve a satin finish.

Halfords... here I come

Edited December 2, 2009 by erisu

[Al Heeley]

A satin finish is just a gloss one that hasn't been fully polished yet!
All you're doing is un-polishing it.


Sort of...

Edited December 2, 2009 by Al Heeley

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='erisu' post='671930' date='Dec 2 2009, 10:51 AM']Awesome mate! I'm looking forward to this little test project tonight =) I always thought to achieve a satin finish, you put some sort of sealer like a coat or two (not poly) and leave it to dry... No idea you had to rub down to achieve a satin finish.

Halfords... here I come [/quote]

Nup.

I hope you aren't going to Halfords for "sealing"/"paint" products. All you need is the wet and dry, a dish of water, a block, some washing up liquid and a lot of patience.

Russ

[erisu]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='671952' date='Dec 2 2009, 11:13 AM']Nup.

I hope you aren't going to Halfords for "sealing"/"paint" products. All you need is the wet and dry, a dish of water, a block, some washing up liquid and a lot of patience.

Russ[/quote]

Oh no no! I Googled "Wet and dry. 800" and found a Halfords link:
[url="http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_162608_langId_-1_categoryId_165610"]http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...tegoryId_165610[/url]

Thought there'a Halfords 5 mins down my road so why not I go there after work and have a browse

Alternatively, could I use those dish scrubbers with the green pads on a yellow sponge? I heard from Talkbass they actually do wonders too I'm still getting over the fact that how a simple kitchen accessory can make a bass play like a dream!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='erisu' post='671960' date='Dec 2 2009, 11:24 AM']Oh no no! I Googled "Wet and dry. 800" and found a Halfords link:
[url="http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_162608_langId_-1_categoryId_165610"]http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...tegoryId_165610[/url]

Thought there'a Halfords 5 mins down my road so why not I go there after work and have a browse

Alternatively, could I use those dish scrubbers with the green pads on a yellow sponge? I heard from Talkbass they actually do wonders too I'm still getting over the fact that how a simple kitchen accessory can make a bass play like a dream! [/quote]

You may want to start with a less abrasive paper to get a feel for sanding and inspect to see what is actually doing to the surface. Make sure you don't let the paper clog up or dry out to ensure a good finish. And don't think of attempting it without a block! Check the finish with a light to make sure you haven't left "glossy" bits by missing areas of the neck.

Dish scrubbers = rubbish. You'll end up with swirl marks in the finish as it's not a consistent enough surface to ensure a smooth finish. If you are going to do a proper job, get the proper tools for the job. They are hardly expensive and they will give you much better results.

As an idea, I would expect the back of a neck to take 30-45 minutes to do properly.

Edited December 2, 2009 by EBS_freak

[BigRedX]

I can't help but feel that a lot of this psychological...

My black Gus G3 was matt finished, not for feel but for the look to match the matt black anodised metalwork. Over the last 6 years of playing the back of the neck has now polished up to a fairly high gloss. It still doesn't feel any different to play, nor does it feel any different to the other two Gus basses I own which were high-gloss finished from the start.

Incidentally the stickiest neck I've ever encountered was on a Warwick which was anything but glossy...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='671987' date='Dec 2 2009, 11:51 AM']I can't help but feel that a lot of this psychological...

My black Gus G3 was matt finished, not for feel but for the look to match the matt black anodised metalwork. Over the last 6 years of playing the back of the neck has now polished up to a fairly high gloss. It still doesn't feel any different to play, nor does it feel any different to the other two Gus basses I own which were high-gloss finished from the start.

Incidentally the stickiest neck I've ever encountered was on a Warwick which was anything but glossy...[/quote]

Alot of it is down to the player how slippy your hands are. On my Yamaha BBNE2, (piano black gloss neck) I have no problems, but my friend, he has problems with his hands sticking to it. It's obviously affects some players - I remember seeing Ronnie and Keef from the stones dusting their hands and the necks of their guitars with talc before playing. There are also quite a lot of variables - e.g. what brand of poly has been used (they all dry to different levels of stickiness).

Any non gloss finish will gloss up again with wear... but they still won't get to the level of shine you would with a wheel. Again, it's all down to the player and how they are effected by gloss and their sticky/not so sticky finishes.

Ah good old Warwick. Was the stickiness down to the splinters?

Edited December 2, 2009 by EBS_freak

[erisu]

Cheers for the replies EBS_freak! i'll avoid the dish scrubbers! I knew they were too good to be true! haha! Halfords it is then! =)

BigRedX... funny that you mentioned a Warwick neck was the stickiest you came across! I once owned a Warwick and it was really smooth despite my easily sweated hands.

[EBS_freak]

Make sure to pick up some masking tape. You want a nice transitition between the gloss and satin areas of your neck, otherwise it will look pretty skank.

[erisu]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='672093' date='Dec 2 2009, 01:59 PM']Make sure to pick up some masking tape. You want a nice transitition between the gloss and satin areas of your neck, otherwise it will look pretty skank.[/quote]

Check. Got a bundle at home

Will give an update tomorrow! Cheers!

[erisu]

I tested the .800 pads on my SG copy guitar last night and the results were INCREDIBLE! Instantly after about 5 rubs up and down the neck, there was instant results and the neck felt so damn smooth and nice!!! I didn't use a wooden block nor did I use any water/washing up liquid to rub it which was a big naughty from me but hey! It was on a cheap guitar that I don't use anymore and yet the results were fabulous!

I'll move onto the bass this Saturday when I have more time and I'll be using water and washing up liquid on Saturday

[BigRedX]

I'm still not convinced that its not psychological. Remember that when you're removing the gloss with your wet and dry you're actually making the surface rougher by introducing lots of tiny scratches into the finish.

The sticky Warwicks were on the Warwick stand at on of the big trade shows. You'd have thought that these should have been at the peak of their playability for such an event. However it felt like they'd been waxed on to make them look good but not enough time have been spent waxing off the make them play well.

[erisu]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='672956' date='Dec 3 2009, 10:49 AM']I'm still not convinced that its not psychological. Remember that when you're removing the gloss with your wet and dry you're actually making the surface rougher by introducing lots of tiny scratches into the finish.

The sticky Warwicks were on the Warwick stand at on of the big trade shows. You'd have thought that these should have been at the peak of their playability for such an event. However it felt like they'd been waxed on to make them look good but not enough time have been spent waxing off the make them play well.[/quote]

For me, IME, it's definately not psychological... there is a big noticeable difference in the feel of the neck and of course the visual aspects of it. Inspecting the aftermath of the wet and dry rubbing under bright lighting, the neck looks satin, less shiny and just duller than the rest of the guitar which is high glosses. I agree by wet and dry rubbing will give the surface tiny scratches but I was in effect scratching off the layers of the gloss finish bit by bit. It would only feel rough if you were to concentrate on spot of the neck. I ran my hand through the neck after and after reaching the 12th fret on the guitar, my hands immediately became stuck and slow as I have not rubbed this part of the neck yet.