Midi syncing

[velvetkevorkian]

Hey folks,
Does anyone sync their effects to a midi clock so they can be in time with the rest of the band? I've been playing with my VF-1 which has a bunch of cool time based effects (slicer, mega delays etc) which are nice but will be much more usable if I can sync the tempo to an external source. What's the cheapest/simplest way of doing this? I guess what I'm thinking of would be something like a simple drum machine where I can set the tempo, send a midi clock signal round whatever effects are in the chain and be able to plug a pair of cans in for a click to go to the drummer.

Any suggestions? Hardware only preferably. It's all hypothetical anyway.
Cheers
Kyle

[BigRedX]

I do this and the basic idea you've outlined is sound.

There are a couple of things you need to watch out for.

Firstly don't daisy chain the MIDI clock. Each MIDI in to MIDI thru connection will add a slight delay. If you you have multiple devices each needing their own MIDI clock signal, then split the clock at a single point to as many outputs as you need and connect each device with it own MIDI cable.

Secondly some of the cheaper MIDI thru boxes won't send all the MIDI information to all the outputs, so if you need to split your MIDI clock 3 ways check that a 3-way MIDI thru box will pass MIDI clock to all the outputs. You might need to buy something with more outputs then you need simply to get enough that will pass through the MIDI clock. Check the specification before you part with your money.

For the ultimate in MIDI syncable effects have a look at the [url="http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/"]Linn Adrenalinn[/url].

[Kiwi]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='644862' date='Nov 3 2009, 11:36 PM']Hey folks,
Does anyone sync their effects to a midi clock so they can be in time with the rest of the band?[/quote]
Assuming that you get it working all OK, unless your band can play to a sequencer there's bound to be some slight speeding up or slowing down in tempo (particularly going into the chorus). MIDI synching will make those differences more obvious. Might be better at using a tap tempo button if you have that function in any of your effects? If you hear the tempo is out then give the tap tempo a couple of presses with your foot in time to the tempo and it'll be sorted.

The Adrenalinn is a nice bit of kit but for the same money you could have Guitar Rig 3 or 4 on your laptop live including a USB foot controller with a tap tempo function and a whole bunch of effects. I've just installed it and its completely rocked my world. You can do many of the Adrenalinn beat based effects with it as well.

[fatback]

Real interesting stuff.

Can you point me to any tracks that use these techniques with bass? I know midi, but never thought of bass guitar being used that way. Mmm.

Don't mean to hijacka ya thread.

fatback

Edited November 4, 2009 by fatback

[BigRedX]

fatback, have a listen to [url="http://www.myspace.com/sugarboxmusicbox"]Love Junkie[/url]. Everything that sounds like synth bass is bass guitar going through a Peavey Spectrum Filter unit and Peavey BassFex with MIDI sync'd filter gate and delay.

There's nothing wrong with using a machine source for your tempo, provided that it is appropriate for the song (some songs need tempo changes to feel right, some don't) and your drummer is capable and comfortable with playing to another tempo source and not leading the song. A good drummer used to playing with a click will be able to push and pull around the click to give the appropriate "human" feel and the whole song will still be tighter than relying on several different people's interpretation of tap tempo. If the drummer does inject noticeable tempo changes into the song as it progresses, you'll spend all your time dancing on the tap-tempo footswich to keep your effects in time. To me that sounds worse than a rigidly set tempo.

[fatback]

Thanks, I'll have a listen to that later (can't access from here).

Unfortunately, my fave drummer will not will not will not play to any kind of click. Is there any midi tap tempo type gismo that can be triggered by a bass drum? I guess it'd have to be an awful simple beat, but...?

I am soo interested in this.

fatback

Edited November 4, 2009 by fatback

[BigRedX]

There have been devices available in the past that will generate a MIDI clock from an audio input. However last time I looked at them they relied on a fixed interval or constant pattern input in order to work properly. Also it needed at least a bar of quarter notes as a reference point to start generating the clock from. This places restrictions on what the drummer can play in order to keep the a reliable clock going for the synchronised devices.

A good drummer will do whatever is needed for the song. IME drummers who won't play to a click can't do it because they simply haven't the experience of not being the tempo setter. Every other musician in a band has plenty of experience of this (we all play to the drummer). Maybe if you're set on using synchronised effects it's time to look for a more accommodating drummer.

[fatback]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='645397' date='Nov 4 2009, 04:08 PM']Maybe if you're set on using synchronised effects it's time to look for a more accommodating drummer.[/quote]

Yeah, I take the point.

Any more things you think I should listen to, i'd be grateful. I do a bit of cubase sequencing stuff on PC, but never thought BG in that context at all. Sounds like it could be inspiring. Can't get enough of that.

fatback

[velvetkevorkian]

Thanks for the thoughts. Like I say, this is all hypothetical at the moment and is unlikely to see any use in my current band- too many bizarre time changes would make it difficult to program!

The Adrenalinn is something that's been on my radar before and I will certainly keep an eye out for one.

I don't really want to go the software route to be honest as I simply don't have enough faith in my computer's stability- it doesn't crash often but I bet it would choose just the wrong time to start! No doubting the quality of effects though.

Can anyone suggest a cheap hardware solution for generating a MIDI clock, rather than effects reading it? I assume the Adrenalinn would work, will most drum machines with a MIDI out be able to generate this also?

Cheers.

[baixo]

Hi there,

I can recommend the Adrenalinn, it has really amazing effects and is very easy to use. I got myself an eBow a couple of weeks ago, and when used with some of the Adrenalinn sync filter effects you get great arpeggio synth style bass lines. This is one of my favourite bits of kit ever....

Cheers,
Joao

[BigRedX]

Any drum machine or hardware sequencer with a MIDI out socket will generate MIDI clock for you.

If in doubt though check the product's MIDI implementation chart which is normally at the back of the manual.

Also some looper pedals will generate as well as read MIDI clock. In Mable's Husbands our guitarist uses an EH looper (don't know exactly which one) which acts as the master clock for all the other MIDI devices.

Edited November 4, 2009 by BigRedX

[velvetkevorkian]

Nice one, thanks.
Off to scheme about an overcomplicated rig now...

[ase_one23]

i've played about with stuff in the same vein as this, i've got a tap tempo midi device a mate built me that i can use to trigger the tap tempo on ableton live so i can keep loops, effects etc in time. apparently the new ableton's got live audio input - yas!!!!!

[fatback]

@ BigRedX cool track. I get the picture.

Maybe Ableton is a way to go, although after muc trying I never really took to it. Never needed it live though, and given that that's what it's for, I spose I shouldn;t judge.

This Adrenelinn sounds the biz.

Something wrong with my GAS. Only one bass, but i'm up to my ass in gadgets.

fatback

[BigRedX]

Thanks fatback! That track was done by abusing 15-year old technology in ways that it wasn't really intended for. With something like an Adrenalinn it would have been far simpler to do!

[ase_one23]

[quote name='fatback' post='646024' date='Nov 5 2009, 10:05 AM']Maybe Ableton is a way to go, although after muc trying I never really took to it. Never needed it live though, and given that that's what it's for, I spose I shouldn;t judge.

fatback[/quote]

it was the same for me mate, it took me a while to get to grips with it. basically sat myself down for a weekend to learn the basics and so glad i did, really fun and great for live work.