Limit Defeat?

[waynepunkdude]

My limiter light keeps on coming on, what will happen if I press the limit defeat button?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616027' date='Oct 3 2009, 03:14 PM']My limiter light keeps on coming on, what will happen if I press the limit defeat button?[/quote]
The light won't come on.
And of course the limiter won't be functional, which increases the possibility of damaging your speakers.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='616030' date='Oct 3 2009, 08:18 PM']The light won't come on.
And of course the limiter won't be functional, which increases the possibility of damaging your speakers.[/quote]


Is there a big chance of that happening?

[waynepunkdude]

Oh the specs of my amp are:
OUTPUT POWER RATING
1350 Watts Mono-Bridged @ 4 Ohms (1000 Watts Continuous)
840 Watts Mono-Bridged @ 8 Ohms (680 Watts Continuous)
2 x 675 Watts @ 2 Ohms (500 Watts Continuous)
2 x 420 Watts @ 4 Ohms (340 Watts Continuous)
2 x 255 Watts @ 8 Ohms (205 Watts Continuous)

I use both power amps at 8OHMS (1 cab per power amp) my cabs are 300W & 600W

Edited October 3, 2009 by waynepunkdude

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616064' date='Oct 3 2009, 04:18 PM']Oh the specs of my amp are:
OUTPUT POWER RATING
1350 Watts Mono-Bridged @ 4 Ohms (1000 Watts Continuous)
840 Watts Mono-Bridged @ 8 Ohms (680 Watts Continuous)
2 x 675 Watts @ 2 Ohms (500 Watts Continuous)
2 x 420 Watts @ 4 Ohms (340 Watts Continuous)
2 x 255 Watts @ 8 Ohms (205 Watts Continuous)

I use both power amps at 8OHMS (1 cab per power amp) my cabs are 300W & 600W[/quote] If you're lighting up the limiter it means you've reached the extent of the clean rated power of the amp. If that's not loud enough chances are your speakers are insufficient for the job, no matter what they're rated, and sending even more power to them probably will lead to a less than desirable result.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='616089' date='Oct 3 2009, 09:57 PM']If you're lighting up the limiter it means you've reached the extent of the clean rated power of the amp. If that's not loud enough chances are your speakers are insufficient for the job, no matter what they're rated, and sending even more power to them probably will lead to a less than desirable result.[/quote]


Could it be possible that the limiter is only kicking in for one side?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616095' date='Oct 3 2009, 05:06 PM']Could it be possible that the limiter is only kicking in for one side?[/quote]That depends on how it's configured. The owner's manual should say.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='616099' date='Oct 3 2009, 10:15 PM']That depends on how it's configured. The owner's manual should say.[/quote]

All the manual has is this.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616115' date='Oct 3 2009, 06:07 PM']All the manual has is this.[/quote]
That shows separate limiters for each power amp. How they function should be explained in the manual. If it isn't a conversation should be held with the amp manufacturer as to why not.

[waynepunkdude]

All the manual says about the limiter is

"24. LIMIT: This LED illuminates when the internal
limit circuit is activated. This indicates that the
amplifier is nearing full output and the limiter is
keeping it from clipping the output signal."

Hmmm I'm guessing the 15" is causing it as that is 300W, might be worth investing in a new cab.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616131' date='Oct 3 2009, 11:35 PM']All the manual says about the limiter is

"24. LIMIT: This LED illuminates when the internal
limit circuit is activated. This indicates that the
amplifier is nearing full output and the limiter is
keeping it from clipping the output signal."

Hmmm I'm guessing the 15" is causing it as that is 300W, might be worth investing in a new cab.[/quote]

The watts bit is kind of irrelvant if it is your amp lighting up. Its if you are cranking the 15 side because theres not enough volume from the 15, that you need a second 15. Guessing you are running the classic 1x15 and 4x10. Probably the 4x10 is more efficient all round, so you are getting plenty from that, but the 15 is struggling to keep up. What you really want is a 6x12, will cover everything you are after.

Totally trying to explain the 'don't mix speaker sizes' thing without being as much of a douche as I generally think people are when they say it. But I kind of understand it. As a person who lights up clip lights a lot, the problem is probably with your cabs more than your amps.More cabs and more effiecient cabs (sensitivity rating) will probably do more for your volume than anything else. A 2x15 will probably balance volume wise better with a 4x10, and the correspondingly bigger box will give you lower, unless you go for a 2x15 in a 4x10 sized box, when it all falls over. Ah, beer makes this hard to explain. Get big cabs and loads of them, and loads of heads, and be Doom. Awesome and Manly.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='616184' date='Oct 3 2009, 10:19 PM']The watts bit is kind of irrelvant if it is your amp lighting up. Its if you are cranking the 15 side because theres not enough volume from the 15, that you need a second 15. Guessing you are running the classic 1x15 and 4x10. Probably the 4x10 is more efficient all round, so you are getting plenty from that, but the 15 is struggling to keep up.[/quote]You're quite correct. The 'classic' 1x15/4x10 is a poor match up, not just because the 1x15 handles less power but also because it has less sensitivity than a 4x10. A 1x15 works OK with a 2x10; to keep up with a 4x10 you either need a 2x15 or another 4x10.

[waynepunkdude]

Right as I don't have the budget for another 15" ATM I have a few choices.

I could use just the 4X10, I could put both cabs on the same power amp, I could turn the limiter off or as they are bi-amped on a cross-over I could give the 4X10 more to do.

Which would work best?

Edited October 4, 2009 by waynepunkdude

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616247' date='Oct 4 2009, 09:16 AM']Right as I don't have the budget for another 15" ATM I have a few choices.

I could use just the 4X10, I could put both cabs on the same power amp, I could turn the limiter off or as they are bi-amped on a cross-over I could give the 4X10 more to do.

Which would work best?[/quote]

Nothing to gain by turning off the limiter. If the light upsets you, put tape over it. Guessing the 4x10 is on top of the 15? Leave it there, but don't use the 15 and see what its like. Try those things and see what they do for you.

[waynepunkdude]

TBH I only use the 15" for the low end which is usually loud enough, as long as it's not cuting the 4X10 then awesome.

But I will try all the options out, maybe I shouldn't have sold the 6X12 but I had extreme Stingray GAS.

Edited October 4, 2009 by waynepunkdude

[Alien]

You could try lowering the crossover frequency, which would have the effect of making the 4x10 do more of the work.
The biggest problem with using a standard 1x15 (or pretty much any bass cab really) as the low end in a biamped rig is that they're not really designed for it. What you need is a sub of some kind - a PA sub would do fine.

A

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Alien' post='616584' date='Oct 4 2009, 11:27 AM']You could try lowering the crossover frequency, which would have the effect of making the 4x10 do more of the work.
The biggest problem with using a standard 1x15 (or pretty much any bass cab really) as the low end in a biamped rig is that they're not really designed for it. What you need is a sub of some kind - a PA sub would do fine.

A[/quote]
I just assumed he was running both cabs full range. There's no point to bi-amping these speakers, though running stereo does offer the advantage of being able to power shade.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='616802' date='Oct 4 2009, 08:10 PM']I just assumed he was running both cabs full range. There's no point to bi-amping these speakers, though running stereo does offer the advantage of being able to power shade.[/quote]


So will changing the fequency on the cross-over to put more of the load onto the 4X10 help?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616810' date='Oct 4 2009, 03:21 PM']So will changing the fequency on the cross-over to put more of the load onto the 4X10 help?[/quote]The cabs you have aren't designed for true bi-amping. You should be running the 4x10 full range, the 1x15 lows only with the low pass filter set around 800 Hz.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='616976' date='Oct 4 2009, 10:58 PM']The cabs you have aren't designed for true bi-amping. You should be running the 4x10 full range, the 1x15 lows only with the low pass filter set around 800 Hz.[/quote]


I will give it a go, cheers buddy.

Can I just be clear, do you mean set the left knob to about 4 o clock?

Edited October 4, 2009 by waynepunkdude

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='616995' date='Oct 4 2009, 06:09 PM']I will give it a go, cheers buddy.

Can I just be clear, do you mean set the left knob to about 4 o clock?[/quote]Yes, and look at the manual regarding setting the rear panel switches and running a patch cable to run Full Range/Lows.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='617058' date='Oct 5 2009, 01:28 AM']Yes, and look at the manual regarding setting the rear panel switches and running a patch cable to run Full Range/Lows.[/quote]

That is how I'm running it at the moment.

Cheers

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='616976' date='Oct 4 2009, 10:58 PM']The cabs you have aren't designed for true bi-amping. You should be running the 4x10 full range, the 1x15 lows only with the low pass filter set around 800 Hz.[/quote]

Did the trick.

[waynepunkdude]

I'm looking at a 2X15 that is 500W @ 4OHMS my 4X10 is 600W @ 8OHMS would the uneven load cause a problem or will it be fine as it is off of 2 separate power amps?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='632109' date='Oct 21 2009, 04:28 AM']I'm looking at a 2X15 that is 500W @ 4OHMS my 4X10 is 600W @ 8OHMS would the uneven load cause a problem or will it be fine as it is off of 2 separate power amps?[/quote]It won't bother anything, but beware of power ratings that are meaningless, which most are. What counts isn't the thermal rating, it's the displacement limited rating, and no one provides that. Try before you buy.