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ray_6ao7

changing speakers/customising cab - advice please

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Hi everyone, I'm looking at changing the speakers in my warwick cab/customising it and just wondered if anyone could offer me any advice...

I was thinking of changing them to 4 celestion bl10-200x and 4 celestion bn10-300s

[url="http://professional.celestion.com/bass/green/index.asp"]http://professional.celestion.com/bass/green/index.asp[/url]
[url="http://professional.celestion.com/bass/orange/index.asp"]http://professional.celestion.com/bass/orange/index.asp[/url]

also looking at stripping the carpet off the cab (ripped a bit when we were loading it onto the van last week) and fitting some tolex instead and also possibly looking at having the metal grill removed and having a new grille put on it similar to this:

[url="http://www.mesaboogie.com/gallery/gallery.php?id=101"]http://www.mesaboogie.com/gallery/gallery.php?id=101[/url]

just wondering if anyone has done anything similar and could give me any info about it/if it'll work etc...


thanks

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did ask them but they say they can't make custom cabs :)

here's the reply I got the other day:

[i]Hi Ray,

I am sorry but unfortunately we have no chance to build custom cabs…

suggestion: try to do it by yourself start business and become rich ;-)


Greets[/i]

Banter haha

Edited by ray_6ao7

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Are you having the Orange ones in the top of the cab? Are you running it in stereo? I like that idea if thats what you're doing.
Recovering will be a nightmare, strip the rat fur off then give it a few coats of textured stuff like Claber uses on his cabs.

Edited by steve-soar

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='546514' date='Jul 21 2009, 02:36 PM']Why do you want to change the speakers?

Alex[/quote]

Hey Alex

one speaker's blown recently so i need to replace that anyway and i've been toying around with the idea of trying to get something that has a really nice clear,punchy but deep tone aswell...just thinking it'll probably be cheaper than buying a new cab :)

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[quote name='ray_6ao7' post='546626' date='Jul 21 2009, 10:54 AM']Hey Alex

one speaker's blown recently so i need to replace that anyway and i've been toying around with the idea of trying to get something that has a really nice clear,punchy but deep tone aswell...just thinking it'll probably be cheaper than buying a new cab :)[/quote]
Changing drivers might be of benefit if the new ones are better than the originals, but that requires knowing what the specs on the originals are. FWIW IMO the BL10-200x is poorly suited for electric bass, the BN10-300S totally unsuitable. Neither is capable of delivering deep tone.

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Eight decent 10"s will probably set you back about £400. Probably better off fixing the broken driver, selling the cab and getting something that better suits your needs.

Alex

P.S. I know a certain cab that would very much enjoy having such a nice pre/power driving it! :)

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='546653' date='Jul 21 2009, 04:15 PM']Changing drivers might be of benefit if the new ones are better than the originals, but that requires knowing what the specs on the originals are. FWIW IMO the BL10-200x is poorly suited for electric bass, the BN10-300S totally unsuitable. Neither is capable of delivering deep tone.[/quote]

Hey bill, what would would you recommend?

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[quote name='ray_6ao7' post='546783' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:50 PM']Hey bill, what would would you recommend?[/quote]That depends on what's in there now.

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Id go with alexclabers suggestion. Cant warwick replace the speaker for you?

FRom Warwicks site the specs for the Celestions in the 811ND are 200W, 8 ohms, 98dB, resonant frequency 89Hz, frequency range 80Hz-5kHz, which looks like the 'Orange' BN10-200S from the link you posted. Thats pretty poor for a bass speaker.

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Celestion's best 10-inch is the NTR10-2520E, which is certainly one of the world's best of its type. They retail for about £100 each. If I were in your shoes, I'd see if Warwick would get Celestion to send you eight for you to fit yourself. I think it's the least they could do for one of their endorsees. The speakers will probably cost Warwick about £35 each at OEM prices, which you should offer to pay because you will be able to recover a large chunk of this by selling the old drivers on eBay.
You would then have a 2,000 watt cabinet that will piss all over anything you can buy in a shop. Seriously.

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[quote name='stevie' post='547512' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:15 PM']Celestion's best 10-inch is the NTR10-2520E, which is certainly one of the world's best of its type. They retail for about £100 each. If I were in your shoes, I'd see if Warwick would get Celestion to send you eight for you to fit yourself. I think it's the least they could do for one of their endorsees. The speakers will probably cost Warwick about £35 each at OEM prices, which you should offer to pay because you will be able to recover a large chunk of this by selling the old drivers on eBay.
You would then have a 2,000 watt cabinet that will piss all over anything you can buy in a shop. Seriously.[/quote]

Thanks for the info! Just emailed Warwick now so see what they say :)

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[quote name='ray_6ao7' post='547640' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:53 PM']Thanks for the info! Just emailed Warwick now so see what they say :)[/quote]
Fingers crossed! If Warwick won't play ball, you could probably persuade Celestion (with a bit of namedropping) to sort you out a blistering deal. PR rules nowadays.

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[quote name='stevie' post='547692' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:21 PM']Fingers crossed! If Warwick won't play ball, you could probably persuade Celestion (with a bit of namedropping) to sort you out a blistering deal. PR rules nowadays.[/quote]

hmm no luck :) here's the response:

[i]Hi Ray,

we have no Celestion NTR10-2520E…according to my files you should have a WCA 811 ND cab and in it we use T5404[/i]

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[quote name='ray_6ao7' post='547711' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:30 PM']hmm no luck :) here's the response:

[i]Hi Ray,

we have no Celestion NTR10-2520E…according to my files you should have a WCA 811 ND cab and in it we use T5404[/i][/quote]
Bum! The Germans are known for their efficiency but not for their flexibility. T5404 must be an OEM product code. I think it might be worth getting back to them and explaining that you want to upgrade all the speakers in your WCA cab to the NTR10 at your own expense, but you would like them to facilitate an OEM price for you, as the NTR10 is a very expensive driver. My guess is that they are importing directly from Celestion UK - so it should not be difficult for them to place an order with Celestion to be delivered directly to you from Ipswich. Do they have an artist relations guy at Warwick? He would be the guy to talk to, I think. You are not exactly asking them to move a mountain, logistically speaking.

Alternatively, ask them to contact Celestion to explain that one of their endorsees wishes to upgrade the speakers in their Warwick cabinet and would they please offer him their best prices. Then order them from Celestion yourself.

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[quote name='ray_6ao7' post='547467' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:26 AM']looking at the warwick site it says they're celestion?[/quote]
Insufficient data. You need to know the exact driver model, and have all the T/S specs for it, to know whether changing drivers would be of any benefit. It wouldn't be the least bit surprising if Warwick is unaware of the specs on the drivers they use, and if they are aware chances are they won't tell you. Your best bet is to take the bad driver out of the cab, identify it, and have whomever did manufacture it provide the specs.
As far as what I'd use it would be the Eminence Basslite S2010, which is one of the least expensive neo tens but has low frequency output capability equal to anything in the Celestion line. It only has a 150 watt thermal rating, but with eight of them that's of no consequence.

Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='547809' date='Jul 22 2009, 04:37 PM']As far as what I'd use it would be the Eminence Basslite S2010, which is one of the least expensive neo tens but has low frequency output capability equal to anything in the Celestion line. It only has a 150 watt thermal rating, but with eight of them that's of no consequence.[/quote]
The Basslite is cheap for a reason: it's a pressed steel chassis built down to a price. It doesn't compare with the Celestion NTR10 for quality or for low frequency output. Nor would anyone expect it to given the price difference.

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Look at post #12. ^^^ up there.

Warwicks own site lists some of the specs for the Celestion speakers used in the WCA811ND. From that its probably safe to assume its the Celestion BN10-200S from their current catalougue, so maybe worth getting one direct from a supplier or (god forbid) getting Warwick to do some work to source a replacement. Its specs look pretty dire though (2 mm Xmax???) but wouldnt surprise me if that was the speaker theyve used as the cheapest option.

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[quote name='Spartacus' post='547947' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:25 PM']Its specs look pretty dire though (2 mm Xmax???) but wouldnt surprise me if that was the speaker theyve used as the cheapest option.[/quote]
Good point. With eight speakers in there, every euro they save gets multiplied by eight, which gets multiplied by 4 (or so) to arrive at the retail price. In other words, every extra tenner Warwick spends on the speakers for this cabinet puts £320 onto the rrp of the speaker. There is therefore a great incentive to go for the cheapest.

I'm sure Warwick would supply a replacement but Ray clearly wants to put some decent drivers in there. I have to say that putting good drivers in your speaker cabinet makes more difference than just about any equipment upgrade you can make, although in this case the expense is multiplied by eight.

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[quote name='stevie' post='548038' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:35 PM']Good point. With eight speakers in there, every euro they save gets multiplied by eight, which gets multiplied by 4 (or so) to arrive at the retail price. In other words, every extra tenner Warwick spends on the speakers for this cabinet puts £320 onto the rrp of the speaker. There is therefore a great incentive to go for the cheapest.

I'm sure Warwick would supply a replacement but Ray clearly wants to put some decent drivers in there. I have to say that putting good drivers in your speaker cabinet makes more difference than just about any equipment upgrade you can make, although in this case the expense is multiplied by eight.[/quote]

in theory that wont be too hard. He can work out the internal volume of the cab, measure the port sizes then work backwards using something like WINISD to check possible replacements and responses.

A set of 8 decent neo speakers wont be cheap though, something like £500 or £600? :) very shoddy of warwick to use the cheapest available chinese made speakers that can barely do the job then not even be able to supply a single spare to an endorsee. Retail on those is over £1200 for a box with some barrely suffcient speakers. Inconceivable!

Edited by Spartacus

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[quote name='stevie' post='547778' date='Jul 22 2009, 04:18 PM']Alternatively, ask them to contact Celestion to explain that one of their endorsees wishes to upgrade the speakers in their Warwick cabinet and would they please offer him their best prices. Then order them from Celestion yourself.[/quote]

well sent a follow up mail asking if they could go direct to celestion themselves..but i don't hold out much hope...unfortunately the a&r guy i knew left a few months ago and his replacement isn't as helpful...

[quote name='Spartacus' post='548067' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:59 PM']Inconceivable![/quote]

"you keep using that word...i do not think it means what you say"

haha princess bride! banter! watched it yesterday with my brother :)

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if you're going to all this effort of replacing the speakers, why would you switch that nice solid metal grill with something that wouldn't protect the speakers as well? unless of course i'm mistaken and there's metal under the cloth.

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[quote name='Zach' post='548447' date='Jul 23 2009, 12:01 AM']if you're going to all this effort of replacing the speakers, why would you switch that nice solid metal grill with something that wouldn't protect the speakers as well? unless of course i'm mistaken and there's metal under the cloth.[/quote]

just because i really don't like the metal grille that warwick put on their cabs...I'd really like it to look like the framus dragon cab...but it's gonna be the last thing to do on the list so got plenty of time to think about it :)

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