The joys of selling a bass

[Beedster]

On 24/06/2025 at 21:59, Dan Dare said:

If someone examines and plays an instrument at leisure, pronounces themselves satisfied and buys it, surely that's the end of it.

 

Intuitively yes, but not if the seller is a business

 

[Beedster]

41 minutes ago, SimonK said:

I think there is a difference between running a professional business where you do need to stick to more rigid policies just so the business survives, as opposed to being a hobbyist making a bit of money on the side, but primarily doing it for the love of it. I think if it is the latter that you are doing you could come up with some sort of guarantee period, something like so long as the customer can inspect it at time of purchase they can get a full refund for first 14 days, 50% for up to a month following purchase, but then only warranty repairs (probably worth defining carefully) for up to a year afterwards.

 

Unfortunately I think for this first "problem" customer I would just bite the bullet, take it back, and chalk it up to experience (albeit I would only refund what they paid - no more!). Then next time ensure you have the returns/warranty policy in writing and agreed to.

 

There are tales on BC and Talkbass of lutheirs who fail catastrophically, and reading some of the tales I can't escape the feeling that many of them failed because they didn't have a good understanding of how things might look in two years time if they proceed on their present trajectory, for example, promised timelines, post-sale care etc. Working methods/T7Cs that work fine when you have 10 orders can fail disastrously when you have 15

 

Either way, good luck @Silky999

[Burns-bass]

8 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

There are tales on BC and Talkbass of lutheirs who fail catastrophically, and reading some of the tales I can't escape the feeling that many of them failed because they didn't have a good understanding of how things might look in two years time if they proceed on their present trajectory, for example, promised timelines, post-sale care etc. Working methods/T7Cs that work fine when you have 10 orders can fail disastrously when you have 15

 

Either way, good luck @Silky999

 

Many businesses fail when they have to scale up to commercial levels. They lack the capacity, structures and resilience to do this. 

 

I think your idea of keeping this as a small-scale hobby business is a good one @Silky999 and I wish you all the best.

 

 

[Dan Dare]

15 hours ago, Silky999 said:

Not so much intimidated but my reputation, especially going forward in bass building and if I potentially want to make this in the next few years post Police (don’t hate me) retirement option, it is really important to me. This is especially when it comes to asking people to part with their hard earned cash. It doesn’t matter to me that in the grand scheme of bass prices, this is right at the bottom end of the scale. I have applied 2 tests to myself over the last 25 years of public service. The “my mum” test and the “mirror test”;

 

Laudable (I also worked in public service), but the obvious points are:

 

1) Not everyone is as decent as your mum. Would she try it on as this buyer appears to be doing? I suspect not. Handsome is as handsome does.

2) There is no shame in denying a chancer the opportunity to put one over you. chris667 has it right above, imho There's no virtue in setting yourself on fire to warm others.

[SimonK]

3 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

There are tales on BC and Talkbass of lutheirs who fail catastrophically, and reading some of the tales I can't escape the feeling that many of them failed because they didn't have a good understanding of how things might look in two years time if they proceed on their present trajectory, for example, promised timelines, post-sale care etc. Working methods/T7Cs that work fine when you have 10 orders can fail disastrously when you have 15

 

Either way, good luck @Silky999

 

Both my wife and I have gone through this with our own businesses, starting off using mates rates and "I feel guilty someone is paying me to do something I like doing so I will only charge a token amount", then realising that there is enough business coming in to make a proper go of it, but then realising that in order to have a business the fees need to be three times higher than the original mates rates we were charging. This then leads to awkward conversations, but business (and living) costs money, and at the end of the day people (society?) will lose access to expertise if they do not pay enough to maintain it. I think this is a particular issue for the arts (and in this thread luthiers) in that there seems to be a reluctance to adequately cost the (music) services being produced.

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

Both my wife and I have gone through this with our own businesses, starting off using mates rates and "I feel guilty someone is paying me to do something I like doing so I will only charge a token amount", then realising that there is enough business coming in to make a proper go of it, but then realising that in order to have a business the fees need to be three times higher than the original mates rates we were charging. This then leads to awkward conversations, but business (and living) costs money, and at the end of the day people (society?) will lose access to expertise if they do not pay enough to maintain it. I think this is a particular issue for the arts (and in this thread luthiers) in that there seems to be a reluctance to adequately cost the (music) services being produced.

I couldn't agree more, especially the final sentence re the arts. I found myself in exactly that spot a few years back and it was not a happy place. It's why if you go into business you really do need to study the science or principles of going into business beforehand

[Burns-bass]

20 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I couldn't agree more, especially the final sentence re the arts. I found myself in exactly that spot a few years back and it was not a happy place. It's why if you go into business you really do need to study the science or principles of going into business beforehand

 

When it comes to the arts, we have such a stupid system that you need to beg for cash with the only money allocated based on the estimated economic impact of your work (which is, in most cases, entirely made up anyway). The entire classical music world – apart form a few exceptions – is funded through grants because to expose it to the market would see its demise.

 

Societally, we need to find other ways to value the skills and to fund them. If we could break free from the moral objections to a UBI, we'd be much better off. Be a lot simpler than pretending that there are enough jobs to go around (when there clearly aren't and probably won't ever be again in the future...)

[chris667]

5 hours ago, prowla said:

Maybe not a complete tool - it's entirely possible that he is hacked off that he can't play a song because one note is unplayable.

For illustration, my go-to bass developed a worn fret at E on the G-string, which meant I raised the action a bit but then found it less enjoyable to play and drifted towards another bass (try playing "Born To Be Wild" without that E!); it's now had a re-fret and normality is resumed.

On the question of "compensation", whilst he's put effort & cost into collecting the instrument, but I don't think that is recoverable on his part, so the compensation question is unlikely going to get him anywhere.

If I buy a pair of shoes and the soles fall off within a week I'll go and get a refund, but I won't expect them to also pay back my bus fare for both journeys there and back.

I think "tool" is not an unreasonable word to describe the buyer in this moment, but you may not agree and that's fine.

 

Being unhappy with your purchase is understandable, but asking for compensation as well as a refund makes the buyer look unreasonable. I don't think anyone who makes demands of that nature to a business is acting honourably. Amongst a group of their peers ( like this forum) I doubt you'd find many who agreed. And if he is a member of this forum he hasn't tried to justify his reasons for claiming above and beyond.

 

He's just a beginner now, but @Silky999 may well make the best basses in the world in the future. If enough people do things like this, he'll stop. It's bad news for all of us. 

 

Either way, he's stopped contacting the seller, so no harm done.

 

@Silky999 - let's see some of these creations!