NickA Posted April 4, 2023 Author Share Posted April 4, 2023 OK! So we're thinking blockless due to the inward curves in the upper ribs just before they join the neck (visible in some of the photos I took) and we're thinking unconverted blockless due to the narrow (likely beech) neck. South German / Tyrolean 1880s. But not necessarily too bad a thing so long as the neck doesn't wobble (amazingly it doesn't) This whole project has kind of stalled as the orchestra don't really want to spend a few hundred quid in order to gain a bass worth maybe a couple of thousand when they don't really want to own a bass at all. Tim Batchelar is too busy and short of parts to fix it at the moment. The chap who was playing it can't afford to buy it, let alone buy it and get it repaired, and they won't give him the bass to fix up at his own expense and he won't spend much money on it if he has to give it back! I'm wondering if I should make them an offer and get it fixed up myself, but then I'd have to sell it really ... or maybe persuade them to sell it on here as a do it up project ... neither of which gets my mate a bass to play, but at least gets it out of the cupboard it's living in and back out in the world. Ah basses, dontchaluvem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloopdad1 Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Tough decision. I don't know what I'd do...? FYI, once it's tarted up and it turns out well it'll be worth +£5k. If you get it converted to blocked it'll be worth about +£6.5k (but the conversion will be in the ballpark of £1.5k). Unfortunately for it to really sing all that yuck Ronseal varnish will have to be removed. Two ways of doing this... Either painstakingly removing carefully the ronseal to reveal the original finish (it'll take weeks!) Or strip it back to wood and apply a new finish (the Luthier would probably find a few old repairs that will need addressing). Then there's a new neck to fit... It all depends on how good a piece of spruce the top is made from. If it has uniform, straight tight grain with no big repairs or knots then it should produce a good sound. It's a tough choice, and a big job and not cheap unfortunately but at the end I've no doubt that it'll be a decent instrument. All this is in my opinion and with only your pics to go by. Either way, good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 On 02/04/2023 at 23:15, Bloopdad1 said: Don't forget that it's a blockless bass (no neck block). Saxon/Tyrolean/southern German around 1880 It's a decent old bass and once sorted should sound better than any laminate instrument. Providing as you said that the table is in good nick, the work described (bridge, post, tail piece etc) is reflectively cosmetic. It's defiantly worth the investment. Once repaired get a price to have it converted to standard construction from blockless. That's why the fingerboard is wider than the neck - to replace the neck from a 3 string width to 4, the conversion from blockless will need to be done first. Then you can have a new neck grafted to the new block. One of my basses is blockless - it has an absolutely superb sound, better than many Italian basses I've played worth well over £80k. That's why they are often called "blockless wonders" in orchestral circles. Word of caution - the fitting of a block and new neck is not cheap (circa £2K), and you're not gauranteed to end up with a better bass, whatever Ken Smith says. He has a vested interest in getting people to spend unnecessary money on blockless basses - it means that all of these relatively cheap basses become far more expensive, so bolstering the price of even ordinary blocked basses. If there are no structural problems, and it sounds good and plays well, leave the f...ing thing alone!! My bass is blockless, albeit rather earlier than this one, and sounds glorious in every register. Quite happily holds its own in the bass section of CBSO. In the 7 years I've had it, never had any structural issues related to neck or lack of a block. Get this thing repaired, put some strings and a new bridge on it and enjoy it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloopdad1 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 35 minutes ago, neilp said: Word of caution - the fitting of a block and new neck is not cheap (circa £2K), and you're not gauranteed to end up with a better bass, whatever Ken Smith says. He has a vested interest in getting people to spend unnecessary money on blockless basses - it means that all of these relatively cheap basses become far more expensive, so bolstering the price of even ordinary blocked basses. If there are no structural problems, and it sounds good and plays well, leave the f...ing thing alone!! My bass is blockless, albeit rather earlier than this one, and sounds glorious in every register. Quite happily holds its own in the bass section of CBSO. In the 7 years I've had it, never had any structural issues related to neck or lack of a block. Get this thing repaired, put some strings and a new bridge on it and enjoy it! Yep, pretty much what I said. My main orchestral 4 stringer is blockless. It's completely stable, light as a feather and sounds glorious. But he states that the neck on this bass is too narrow (ex 3 stringer) to take 4 strings. He mentioned that a standard width fingerboard protrudes either side of the neck... So to sort that out he's unfortunately probably looking at a new neck... (say hi to Mr Alcock for me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 I missed the narrow neck bit! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 The narrow neck is ugly, but with the wider fingerboard and a new tailpiece it's workable! Least of our worries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 Update. We fended off suggestions to to fully restore it or skip it and are paying Bassbags around £350 to fit a decent new 10mm end pin, re-use our spare tail piece and pop the sound post back up, plus other minor things. The orchestra will pay most and the user the remainder. We will fit an old spare set of strings to it ourselves- as Bassbags refused to re-use the Helicore hybrids that lived on my 4/4 for 10 years (one does have a knot in it!) .. that saves us £230 for a new set. Then ... we shall see what manner of beast we really have and whether or not it's worth getting a new bridge and/or strings (a new neck I think not). Got to be better than the 1/2 size B&H plywood thing...... surely. The bassbags recommended solution to our problem was for us to give then £3500 for a nice new bass (an Eastman VB200 I think) which though a bit bland is not a bad bass. They may prove right!! I'm no fan of new Chinese basses, but the Eastman VB503 they have is really rather good; it's also £7500, for which all kinds of good old basses can be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 Happy ending!!! We twisted the luthiers arm so far up his back, he finally replaced the end pin and put our space 4 string tail piece on. It's being played again. Actually a rather nice little bass ..SO much better than the half size b&h laminate it had been temporarily replaced with. Buzzes on the g. Needs a new bridge really. Probably the fingerboard shooting ( then staining again .,.it's not real ebony). Maybe next year. Ideally it needs a new neck and fingerboard ..being blockless that might be tough; but the body is good enough, that it might be worthwhile. So pleased we didn't scrap it and replace with a Chinese hybrid. 😁 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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