alexclaber Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Now this is the only kind of thing I get GAS for nowadays! Sounds like it will be most awesome, hope the acoustics work out decent without too much treatment. Am jealous... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I must commend you on the excellent timing of this build What an excuse to get out of the Christmas shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 No pictures to add at the moment as I didn't want to bore you all with snaps of fibreglass!! Have been doing lots of research on bass traps and absorbers/reflectors. Decided to make my own rather than spend close on £1,000 which is what I was quoted!! The bass traps will go floor to ceiling and quadrant the corners. Timber frames stuffed with rockwool and with an acoustically breathable foam front (speaker grille foam!!)... six of these in all for the live/mixing room and the drum/vocal booth. The deflectors will be canvas pictures with ply backs mounted offset to the walls and ceilings. The absorbers will be like the bass traps but more shallow and positioned accordingly after the room has been attenuated. Solid oak flooring is waiting to go down, electrician is in on Monday... then we can crack on with plaster boarding the dry walls! I'll try to get some pictures this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnyMike Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 WOW! this is a great read so far tombboy, looking forward to seeing more pictures and good luck with the rest of the build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 OK, some more pictures as promised.. This will be the drum/vocal room. Roland TD20 will live in here... This picture shows the framework for one of the bass traps to eliminate corners... View from the far gable end where the mixing will be done, looking back to the drum/vocal booth. He have yet to install the internal double paned window... This picture shows the insulation in the roof... This is the new window installed in the mixing/live room... This picture looks down the corridor to the entrance... Forgot to add... I have decided to double up on the thickness of the dry wall. Might cost a few more bob but I'm sure it'll be worth it. Next update when the dry walls are up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Absolutely double up on the dry wall..... also use 12mm as opposed to 9mm if you can.... makes so much difference. couple of worthwhile links below [url="http://www.johnlsayers.com/"]http://www.johnlsayers.com/[/url] [url="http://www.rwssoundproofing.co.uk/shop.htm"]http://www.rwssoundproofing.co.uk/shop.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='crez5150' post='352902' date='Dec 12 2008, 05:00 PM']also use 12mm as opposed to 9mm if you can.... makes so much difference.[/quote] Done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 For those interested, just a quick total with regard to cost. All recording equipment £2,500.00 Roland TD20 £3,000.00 All wood materials and ironmongery £400.00 Insulation materials £300.00 Oak flooring £470.00 Electricals £500.00 Dry walls £300.00 Door, window & glazing £90.00 Traps, absorbers & Reflectors £200.00 T&G surround £50.00 Curtains £20.00 Heaters £150.00 Beer fridge (essential!!) £90.00 Shiplap external £300.00 Sealants and silicones £40.00 Tea & Coffee £10.00 Caramel hobnobs £5.00 Sofa & chairs £FREE!! Total spend.........[b]£8,425.00[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) Wow, steep! Though not so bad if it does what you want it to And don't forget to alarm/insure it all!! Edited December 12, 2008 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) A quickly knocked up floor plan showing rough dimensions of rooms in relation to each other and placement of bass traps and reflectors/absorbers after consultation. Edited December 12, 2008 by tombboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) If i were you, i'd have made the drum/vocal booth the mixing room and the bigger room just a live room. That way if you need to record several instruments in one take, you can listen to them through the monitors to make sure they're coming through ok and hear the take properly without getting any feedback or anything. Edited December 12, 2008 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='budget bassist' post='353029' date='Dec 12 2008, 07:29 PM']If i were you, i'd have made the drum/vocal booth the mixing room and the bigger room just a live room. That way if you need to record several instruments in one take, you can listen to them through the monitors to make sure they're coming through ok and hear the take properly without getting any feedback or anything.[/quote] I hear what you're saying but we will be recording almost everything through modelling amps bar the vocals. All guitars and bass will be laid down via the mixing room with drums (roland) & vocals from the booth. The main hub will be the live room and we need the room for the sofa and fridge. Nothing will be recorded with any volume as such and it will mostly be digital bar the vocal. It just made sense to me this way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Fair play, if if works for you. Personally i'd have done it the other way around, but i suppose if you actually want to move some air with the guitar or bass i'm assuming that if the drum room is large enough for a drum kit, there would be easily enough room for a guitarist or bassist if you wanted to record all the parts seperately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 Yeah, if we wanted to, we could. Like I've mentioned most stuff will be done via modelling amps and headphones... the only use of volume will be the mixing stage. Our band tend to record in stages like this so we're pretty used to it now. Surprising really that the sound we produce via the digital media is very acoustic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='budget bassist' post='352960' date='Dec 12 2008, 06:02 PM']Wow, steep! Though not so bad if it does what you want it to And don't forget to alarm/insure it all!![/quote] Not really expensive, considering some pro studios will pay in excess of £10k just for a reverb unit!! It's all belled up and will be added on to the insurance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Haha yeah i suppose so! And what modelling programs are you using? guitar rig? I got some really nice sounds out of that from the demo i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 Line 6 pod xt pro for the guitars. DI from my Markbass TA503 head for the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Fair play, you don't need much more than that markbass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) [quote name='tombboy' post='344326' date='Dec 3 2008, 04:42 PM']Any advice on acoustics would be most welcome. Although we will mostly be recording digitally including drums (Roland TD20) we may well do some acoustic/analogue (sp?) stuff. The drum/vocal room will measure approximately 2m x 3m, corridor 1m x 2m and the live/mixing room 4m x 4m. There will be an internal double sealed unit window between the vocal booth and the mixing room for visual cues etc. Forgot to add... floating wooden floors throughout, recessed lighting and a stella fridge!![/quote] I'm late to this thread, so maybe late on the advice. In 2001 I helped build a home studio at the rear of my then drummers house. I was only going to throw in my two cents insofar as the in the wall insulation goes. He has a huge Tama kit and the primary requisite for him was that he could leave the kit in situ, fully microphoned up and wired into the desk. He wanted the kit in a booth on an outside wall to take advantage of natural light from a large window. He went/we went with the hard stuff - you've probably seen it - the big slabs of compressed fibreglass insulating board. You can get this stuff from Wickes. It's sheets 2x3 feet sheets - about two inches thick. He/we used that stuff on [b]every [/b]internal and external wall - doubling it up in the external walls. It offered great heat and sound insulation and stopped any leeching when we were recording. We used to rehearse there as well...full gear...and used to go through until midnight and none of the guys neighbours ever made a complaint about the noise. It's no use having a place like this if you're limited to when you can use it. He also ran all the cabling in conduit about three inches off the floor. Easy access for upgrades and away from any possible flooding. It was a very sensible thing to do. You know how it is...you have everything done, then sockets aren't in the right place etc. Looking good! P Edited December 13, 2008 by NancyJohnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='NancyJohnson' post='353436' date='Dec 13 2008, 11:11 AM']I'm late to this thread, so maybe late on the advice. In 2001 I helped build a home studio at the rear of my then drummers house. I was only going to throw in my two cents insofar as the in the wall insulation goes. He went/we went with the hard stuff - you've probably seen it - the big slabs of compressed fibreglass board. You can get this stuff from Wickes. He/we used that stuff on every internal and external wall - it offered great heat and sound insulation and stopped any leeching when we were recording. We used to rehearse there as well...full gear...and used to go through until midnight and none of the guys neighbours ever made a complaint about the noise. It's no use having a place like this if you're limited to when you can use it. He also ran all the cabling in conduit about three inches off the floor. Easy access for upgrades and away from any possible flooding. Looking good! P[/quote] Thanks for this. I am toying with the idea of using the material you described (commonly known as 705) as an outer skin before we cover the external marine ply in shiplap, just for a little extra re-inforcement. All cabling will be surface mounted in conduit as you described, just in case we need to get to it at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='tombboy' post='353447' date='Dec 13 2008, 11:27 AM']Thanks for this. I am toying with the idea of using the material you described (commonly known as 705) as an outer skin before we cover the external marine ply in shiplap, just for a little extra re-inforcement. All cabling will be surface mounted in conduit as you described, just in case we need to get to it at a later date.[/quote] Sorry - I added to my post while you were adding the reply. There's more! P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesf Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) If the control room is still 4m x 4m, you'll encounter coincidental axial mode interference over two of the room dimensions, causing an unpredictable comb filtering effect. If two sheets (preferably more, staggered layers of varying thickness over the layers) of drywall are being used, I'd suggest using more velocity devices such as your corner traps over one of the control room walls, or at least 40% coverage. If you are using nearfield monitoring, this will be less of a problem if the listening position is set up properly, but if mains or midfields are being soffitted, the extra trapping on one wall will help to combat this effect. Building walls out of parallel won't be required in a room 4mx4m if you have adequate spot trapping - it simply acts to prevent flutter echo, which is a rapid reflection of high frequencies - because of the size of the room boundary (4m), higher frequencies of consequence will have completed several wave cycles before they hit the boundary and so will have lost sufficient energy to prevent the effect - the aforementioned 50% coverage velocity devices will also destroy these. The out-of-parallel walls will not affect distribution or generation of standing waves (your new nemesis!), as these are dependent on average distance travelled, especially in the case of tangential and oblique modes The vaulted ceiling is an excellent feature - don't flatten it whatever you do! The live room looks very nice, but personally I would have the console under the window so I could see and communicate with musicians in there when recording acoustic instruments and miking amps etc, alongside when recording electronic drums - this is of course assuming that mixing will take place in DAW; the mackie 24-8 is relatively tiny, so it will fit with ease - of course this depends on your mixing methods - ITB or OTB? plus the listening position, and subsequently your monitor placement. 2x3m live room is more than enough for vocals - get dimmer switches for the lights in there. As far as cable routing goes - are the power outlets wired yet? if not, it's standard practice to run a separate ring main around the top of the room for power, and have drops to the outlets - this way, the audio cabling is kept well away from the power cabling and interference. I'm so incredibly jealous of your project, words have not yet been invented! It's going to be a while before I can even begin to think about thinking about planning mine!!! There used to be an excellent tutorial on basic acoustics on Ethan Winer's site, but it got taken down a while ago - I'll see if it's anywhere else on t'net. And yes, you'd struggle to get a convolution reverb unit for under £8000!!! J Edited December 13, 2008 by jamesf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='jamesf' post='353584' date='Dec 13 2008, 02:27 PM']If the control room is still 4m x 4m, you'll encounter blah, blah, wibble, blah over two of the room dimensions, causing an unpredictable wibble, blah effect. If two sheets (preferably more, staggered layers of varying thickness over the layers) of drywall are being used, I'd suggest using more scooby doo dah such as your corner traps over one of the control room walls, or at least 40% coverage. If you are using nearfield monitoring, this will be less of a problem if the listening position is set up properly, but if flip flops are being soffitted, the extra dooberie on one wall will help to combat this effect. Building walls out of parallel won't be required in a room 4mx4m if you have adequate snaffle flubbers - it simply acts to prevent wibble wobble, which is a rapid reflection of high frequencies - because of the size of the room boundary (4m), higher frequencies of hubba bubba will have completed several hooblespanks before they hit the boundary and so will have lost sufficient energy to prevent the effect - the aforementioned 50% loogery quibbleknacks will also destroy these. The out-of-parallel walls will not affect distribution or generation of darthvaderradars (your new nemesis!), as these are dependent on average distance travelled, especially in the case of noggin gnome modes The vaulted ceiling is an excellent feature - don't flatten it whatever you do! The live room looks very nice, but personally I would have the console under the window so I could see and communicate with musicians in there when recording acoustic instruments and miking amps etc, alongside when recording electronic drums - this is of course assuming that mixing will take place in DAW; the mackie 24-8 is relatively tiny, so it will fit with ease - of course this depends on your mixing methods - ITB or OTB? plus the listening position, and subsequently your monitor placement. 2x3m live room is more than enough for vocals - get dimmer switches for the lights in there. As far as cable routing goes - are the power outlets wired yet? if not, it's standard practice to run a separate ring main around the top of the room for power, and have drops to the outlets - this way, the audio cabling is kept well away from the power cabling and interference. I'm so incredibly jealous of your project, words have not yet been invented! It's going to be a while before I can even begin to think about thinking about planning mine!!! There used to be an excellent tutorial on basic acoustics on Ethan Winer's site, but it got taken down a while ago - I'll see if it's anywhere else on t'net. And yes, you'd struggle to get a convolution reverb unit for under £8000!!! J[/quote] Thanks J, I have altered your post a little so it makes complete sense for me! (No offence intended) Actually, it goes to show how much I have to learn!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesf Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) [quote name='tombboy' post='353605' date='Dec 13 2008, 02:52 PM']Thanks J, I have altered your post a little so it makes complete sense for me! (No offence intended) Actually, it goes to show how much I have to learn!![/quote] OMG I am actually going to die of laughter Don't worry, I don't make much sense to myself either most of the time! Looking forward to hearing some recordings of the TD20 - i've only used the TD3, but they're superb for controlling MIDI instruments such as samplers and synths as well as recording regular drums. I've yet to record with the DI out from my markbass, but I'm sure you'll get some great results. Acoustics is a tricky business, but if the room sounds great and your mixes translate well, that's all that counts. Edited December 13, 2008 by jamesf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) Quick update... Electrician came round Sunday and put all the wiring in place for the ring main, heating ring and lighting. Plasterboard just got delivered at 7.30am this morning!! It took us over an hour to offload it from the pallet & walk it round to the studio. Just waiting for Chris to come back from the greasy spoon, then we'll crack on with the dry walling. Edited December 16, 2008 by tombboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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