26 frets, thru/bolt-on neck & harmonic 'picking-up' pickup configurations

[Oscar South]

I'm in the process of acquiring a bass for the fancy trick solo playing I like to do on the side. Got a couple of quick questions in case anyone here can give me some insight into this.

My requirement has been specifically 5 strings, 24 frets (it's very tapped harmonic heavy, so the full range is necessary) and pickups that can carry harmonics strongly. I am interested in the idea of an additional piezo pickup under the saddles.

Professionally I play a Jazz 4 and the bridge pickup harmonics on this are brilliant but I don't like the 5 string fender models particularly much unfortunately. My current 'trick' bass is a Yamaha TRB1005 which is an absolutely wonderful instrument, and so I was thinking of tracking down a Yamaha TRB5Pii (although this is proving easier said than done).

My questions are this:
1. In your experience, what pickup formats/positioning are the most favourable for amplifying harmonics. What models have you run into that have these layouts?
2. What models have bass featuring 26 frets have you run into? The extra 2 frets would be very handy for tapping those extra couple of artificial harmonics!

Thanks very much!
Oscar

ps. if you're interested to see any of the trick stuff I've done, check this live session out! It's actually not using any harmonics at all, but is the best thing out there that I can link to at this time!
[url="https://www.facebook.com/thenarrowboatsessions/videos/784785474940137/"]https://www.facebook...84785474940137/[/url]

Edited June 24, 2015 by Oscar South

[ambient]

Doesn't the Warwick Thumb have 26 fret ?

I had a fretless Tom Clement 6 string last year that would have had 26 frets.

My Modulus is amazing for playing harmonics, I think it's to do with the carbon fibre neck, I've heard that Status are good too.

[biro]

As someone who used to do a good deal of fancy trick playing, I would recommend bolt on over neck through. That being said, my BTB705 with EMGs had very nice harmonics. (Exhibit [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqYti8mFA08"]one[/url] and [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6S8pmgfg38"]two[/url].) My Peavey TL-Six, less so, although perhaps that was more pick ups and less construction. (At [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E61ixTfKd6c"]0:30-ish[/url].) A cheap bolt on bass like a Douglas from Rondomusic had [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM4AhheTJeA"]better harmonics though[/url].

[Oscar South]

Thanks for the input guys, very useful.

The info about bolt on vs thru neck is interesting. I've heard a counterpoint that the reason for this is that the top and bottom (especially the fundamental) are more defined on a thru-neck, which proportionately reduces the mid heavy harmonic body. The obvious thought that this gives me is that with the appropriate EQ treatment the thru-neck's apparent shortcoming can be nullified.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

[AttitudeCastle]

Might not be your thing but the John Pattituci Yamaha JP sig jumps to mind!

The Status B2 also has 26 frets. The warwick thumb does have 26 as standard I believe.

Currently hunting for some kind of TRB6Pii or similar myself, finding it hard!

[Kev]

A Warwick Thumb NT 5 has 26 frets and is fantastic at amplifying harmonics, probably something to do with the somewhat unique pickup positions, it sounds like you need to try one.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Kev

[biro]

[quote name='Oscar South' timestamp='1435175930' post='2806314']
The obvious thought that this gives me is that with the appropriate EQ treatment the thru-neck's apparent shortcoming can be nullified.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?
[/quote]

In my experience, that is the epitome of a problem that an EQ cannot solve. I've had a good deal of neck through basses and that is perhaps the main reason why I ended up selling them all -- though I did own a gorgeous neck-through Spector Euro 5 fretless that truly had an amazing attack and mid presence, which I eventually sold it for other reasons.

It's a matter of attack, really, and, all things being equal, I found the sustain on bolt on instruments suited my taste more: I do not mean to say that neck through instruments have more sustain -- though I found this to be true in many cases, however counterintuitive this might sound; I mean that the way the note rings on a bolt on is fundamentally different. In my experience, this helps a lot with natural and artificial harmonics and tapping.

[Oscar South]

Got ya, yeah that makes sense.

Out of interest, do you have any experience with Piezo pickups in these playing styles?

[Oscar South]

In fact, if you have any commennts on scale lenth then that would also be welcome.


The decision I'm facing is that for solo performance, I believe that piezo pickups would be great to fill out the natural frequency range, but most piezo equipped instruments have a neck thru build in order to enhance the bodies resonance.

[biro]

[quote name='Oscar South' timestamp='1435184552' post='2806411']
In fact, if you have any commennts on scale lenth then that would also be welcome.


The decision I'm facing is that for solo performance, I believe that piezo pickups would be great to fill out the natural frequency range, but most piezo equipped instruments have a neck thru build in order to enhance the bodies resonance.
[/quote]

I personally don't have a lot of experience with piezo pick ups, but I am definitely convinced they could help in making those pesky frequencies stand out. As to the scale length, personally, I am back to 34" after a troubling affair with a 35". To be perfectly honest, I think I might be exaggerating the differences, but regardless of how abnormally big my hands are, I find the tension and the spanky-ness of a 34" just right for my taste. That being said, I wouldn't go lower for tapping / solo stuff -- my impression is that articulation can be affected by that to some extent.

[Oscar South]

Thanks again for your insight.

In the end (actually a lot sooner than I expected the process to take expected) I took a bit of a gamble and bought this:
[url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Yamaha_TRB_5P.html"]http://www.bassdirec...aha_TRB_5P.html[/url]

It has 24 frets and it's neck-through.. (and having played a bolt on TRB for a number of years now I can relate to all the traits you describe of bolt ons)

There were a couple of factors which convinced me to take the risk:
1. P/J pick config.. I've never played any pickup config that comes even close to the effectiveness of the Jazz bridge position for amplifying harmonics.
2. Piezo pickup, which are generally considered from what I've read to boost the responsiveness of an instrument and amplify harmonics extremely well.
3. Two switchable user tweakable mid boosts, which I can customise to accentuate the key frequencies involved for harmonics and tapping.
4. I've additionally ordered Status Hex Wound strings as I imagine the slightly stiffer strings will be further favourable for the response and harmonic content of the string.

Everything other than the through neck (which the presence of a Piezo may nullify) seems to favour it for my uses. This was enough to convince me to try and give such a beautiful instrument a go, and I've had nothing but exceptional experience with the TRB line. The 1990 MIJ models are perhaps some of the best they're produced, so lets see how it works out! I'll post an update here after I do a bit of playing.

If it doesn't work out.. I'll just have to sell it and try a Warwick Thumb!!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Oscar South

[biro]

[quote name='Oscar South' timestamp='1435268471' post='2807223']
Thanks again for your insight.

In the end (actually a lot sooner than I expected the process to take expected) I took a bit of a gamble and bought this:
[url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Yamaha_TRB_5P.html"]http://www.bassdirec...aha_TRB_5P.html[/url]

It has 24 frets and it's neck-through.. (and having played a bolt on TRB for a number of years now I can relate to all the traits you describe of bolt ons)

There were a couple of factors which convinced me to take the risk:
1. P/J pick config.. I've never played any pickup config that comes even close to the effectiveness of the Jazz bridge position for amplifying harmonics.
2. Piezo pickup, which are generally considered from what I've read to boost the responsiveness of an instrument and amplify harmonics extremely well.
3. Two switchable user tweakable mid boosts, which I can customise to accentuate the key frequencies involved for harmonics and tapping.
4. I've additionally ordered Status Hex Wound strings as I imagine the slightly stiffer strings will be further favourable for the response and harmonic content of the string.

Everything other than the through neck (which the presence of a Piezo may nullify) seems to favour it for my uses. This was enough to convince me to try and give such a beautiful instrument a go, and I've had nothing but exceptional experience with the TRB line. The 1990 MIJ models are perhaps some of the best they're produced, so lets see how it works out! I'll post an update here after I do a bit of playing.

If it doesn't work out.. I'll just have to sell it and try a Warwick Thumb!!
[/quote]

I actually have a thing for the TRBxP series! You did well, and, if all fails, you can always sell it to me

[Naetharu]

I've been speaking to Adrian Maruszczyk recently about getting a custom bass and he seems more than willing to do pretty much anything custom-wise you're after. It might be worth chatting with him about the possibility of a 26-fret model of the Elwood if you want a Jazz style bass with these features? I've yet to play a Maruszczyk but from the reports I've read they are fantastic quality and very well priced.

The website for them is here if this helps: http://www.public-peace.de - Adrien can be contacted directly via the [email protected] email address.