Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Been playing around with my Vintage 'ray copy and I've been trying to get it sounding as good as I can do on a tight budget. Its already got a clone of a 2 band stingray preamp in and I've swapped out the ceramic bar magnets in it for 2 alnico v bar magnets and the results are pleasing. I did notice though that when comparing pics of the real 'ray to my copy , Im sure the pickup positioning in mine is further towards neck than the real ray - almost in the P position? (top is the vintage and bottom is the real thing - images not mine but is of same bass - pinched from google) What does anyone else think? The pickup routing in the body is massive though and in theory i could move the pickup further towards the bridge by about 15mm. Edited October 7, 2013 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 From the centre of the 21st fret to the middle of the pup on my 'ray is approximately 169mm. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1381139840' post='2234730'] From the centre of the 21st fret to the middle of the pup on my 'ray is approximately 169mm. HTH [/quote] Ah thanks I may measure mine and see how it fairs - is it the positon of pickup relative to last fret that counts as opposed to distance from bridge? I've never been too sure of these kind of things, but as Im getting more interested in tinkering it is good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1381140072' post='2234736'] Ah thanks I may measure mine and see how it fairs - is it the positon of pickup relative to last fret that counts as opposed to distance from bridge? I've never been too sure of these kind of things, but as Im getting more interested in tinkering it is good to know. [/quote] Yeah, the positions of your saddles are variable depending on the intonation whereas your frets are fixed reference points with good access so that's where I take measurements from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I've never measured it but in terms of 'feel' when A/Bing my VS96 with a SUB fingerpicking on the Vintage seemed a little looser with the same gauge strings, so I'd take from that that the pickup IS a little further forward - shall be intrigued to find out for definite though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1381143250' post='2234802'] I've never measured it but in terms of 'feel' when A/Bing my VS96 with a SUB fingerpicking on the Vintage seemed a little looser with the same gauge strings, so I'd take from that that the pickup IS a little further forward - shall be intrigued to find out for definite though! [/quote] Is that when playing over the pickup? I think from sight alone it looks like it is further foward, thinking perhaps getting into P-bass territory. Its not a bad thing, Im not trying to make it sound EXACTLY like a stingray, just trying to make it closer to that tone, (seeing as it is based on that design). Will be interesting to hear if it sounds any different if I screw the pickup down a bit further back using the generous space the they have routed for the pickup (seriously, the size of the cavity they've dug out for that single pickup is huge! Could probably fit about 4 or 5 single coils in it!) Edited October 7, 2013 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 It is my belief that the pup placement in the 'ray (or any other bass) is integral to it's sound. I'd go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1381154719' post='2235034'] It is my belief that the pup placement in the 'ray (or any other bass) is integral to it's sound. I'd go for it. [/quote] If I can get the pup in the sweet spot using the available space, I will have to see about getting a new pickguard. It isnt a pretty bass without a pickguard - the pickup looks like it is in an unfilled grave!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1381145177' post='2234845'] Is that when playing over the pickup? [/quote] Is there anywhere else to fingerpick a Stingray-type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1381155661' post='2235052'] Is there anywhere else to fingerpick a Stingray-type? [/quote] I fingerpick at the nut, gives a very unique tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommorichards Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 For added cosmetic help, you could cur the front bit off the bridge, or even get one of these [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHROME-BASS-GUITAR-BRIDGE-FOR-MUSIC-MAN-Style-5-String-Guitar-/160983855039?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257b62afbf"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHROME-BASS-GUITAR-BRIDGE-FOR-MUSIC-MAN-Style-5-String-Guitar-/160983855039?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257b62afbf[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1381173216' post='2235430'] For added cosmetic help, you could cur the front bit off the bridge, or even get one of these [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHROME-BASS-GUITAR-BRIDGE-FOR-MUSIC-MAN-Style-5-String-Guitar-/160983855039?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257b62afbf"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHROME-BASS-GUITAR-BRIDGE-FOR-MUSIC-MAN-Style-5-String-Guitar-/160983855039?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257b62afbf[/url] [/quote] Proper lookalike bridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) 21st fret to centre of the pickup on my Vintage is 160mm, probably not enough to make much of a difference... Edited October 7, 2013 by Ian Savage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1381139840' post='2234730'] From the centre of the 21st fret to the middle of the pup on my 'ray is approximately 169mm. HTH [/quote] Just measured centre of 21st to centre of pickup on my Vintage and it is approx 157mm so is further. There's actually less wiggle room to push it back than I thought, another 5mm. However I took measurement of 21st to centre of p pickup from my Yamaha BB414 and that's 120mm exactly so it's closer to ray sweet spot at least! Edited October 7, 2013 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1381174831' post='2235469'] 21st fret to centre of the pickup on my Vintage is 160mm, probably not enough to make much of a difference... [/quote] Haha jinx doing it at same time. I'm happy that the Vintage is pretty dammed close. The alnico magnet mod definitely makes things so much sweeter for nailing that tone! May get some clips up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommorichards Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 you could remove a load of material, enough to move it back, and just get a new scratchplate made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I really can't see an extra centimetre or so making enough of a difference tone-wise to make it worth cutting a new scratchplate Personally I actually prefer having a little more 'play' in the strings for fingerpicking, even if it's minimal - the pickup's big enough that if it REALLY bugs you just move your hand down it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 I've never had an issue with string tension over pickup. I may just experiment by moving it - it makes no odds if it doesn't sound much different can just put back into the correct place so pickguard fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1381178738' post='2235569'] I really can't see an extra centimetre or so making enough of a difference tone-wise ... [/quote] You be surprised. I've been recreating a well known G&L pup placement for a few basses then recently decided that I'd try something new. I moved it about a cm neck-ward and voomp! All of a sudden we have new harmonic overtones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1381180801' post='2235608'] You be surprised. I've been recreating a well known G&L pup placement for a few basses then recently decided that I'd try something new. I moved it about a cm neck-ward and voomp! All of a sudden we have new harmonic overtones. [/quote] In theory (if the whole body wood does make a difference rings true) if I moved the pickup back so it is right against the wood in the cavity would this have a positive impact on tone as well? At present it sits in the middle of cavity so the pup doesn't touch any wood (oo er!) Edited October 7, 2013 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1381181404' post='2235616'] In theory (if the whole body wood does make a difference rings true) if I moved the pickup back so it is right against the wood in the cavity would this have a positive impact on tone as well? At present it sits in the middle of cavity so the pup doesn't touch any wood (oo er!) [/quote] I doubt it... but then I'm not big on the theory of tone woods in an electric instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1381184924' post='2235659'] I doubt it... but then I'm not big on the theory of tone woods in an electric instrument. [/quote] Haha funny you should say that, I'm not a big believer either but I guess there's always hope! Edited October 8, 2013 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 [quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1381178738' post='2235569'] I really can't see an extra centimetre or so making enough of a difference tone-wise to make it worth cutting a new scratchplate Personally I actually prefer having a little more 'play' in the strings for fingerpicking, even if it's minimal - the pickup's big enough that if it REALLY bugs you just move your hand down it... [/quote] I think 1cm, once you get so close to the bridge, is noticeable, from tests I did on an old OLP. Pity I did not record any clips. I intend to do something similar using a Precision pickup, I'll make sure I record the results and make a thread about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 1cm difference in pickup placing will make a difference. My 'project' bass has some no-name J body with (now) a single large rectangular rout so I can move the pickups at will. I'm a firm believer in the wood making a difference, but that was another thread! However I don't feel there's any real effect of the pickup being hard up against an edge, just so long as it's firmly attached rather than at all loose. Sounds like you need a go with a router; if you're not into power tools, get someone who knows what they're doing! Once the pickup is where you want it you can always find or make a new plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggo Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) [quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1381228517' post='2235971'] Sounds like you need a go with a router; if you're not into power tools, get someone who knows what they're doing! Once the pickup is where you want it you can always find or make a new plate. [/quote] Theres a bit of room left to move the pickup back in its cavity so I dont think I will need to route any more space as can get within 4mm of the "sweet spot" that has been revealed in this thead Edited October 8, 2013 by Greggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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