What Epoxy, Where and How?

[tonyf]

All,

I've got a fretted Jazz neck on the way from CH guitars but because they didn't have any fretless necks in stock, I'm now going to be defretting it before putting it onto my Bitsa (see the link in my sig).

I've decided to try and epoxy the fingerboard post defret and lining.

Any experiences? Any pointers? More importantly, what epoxy do you suggests and where do I get it from?

Thanks
T

[steve-soar]

West Systems, marine epoxy gives good results.
Mix it well but slowly as to not get any air bubbles into the mix, apply thin coats but work quickly as it starts to cure.
Get a radiused sanding block to cut back any high points and to see if there are any depressions, then reapply. Go through the grades of grit then polish to perfection.
If you can get a scrap neck to practice on first, that my help too.

Steve.

[tonyf]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1348654778' post='1816422']
West Systems, marine epoxy gives good results.
Mix it well but slowly as to not get any air bubbles into the mix, apply thin coats but work quickly as it starts to cure.
Get a radiused sanding block to cut back any high points and to see if there are any depressions, then reapply. Go through the grades of grit then polish to perfection.
If you can get a scrap neck to practice on first, that my help too.

Steve.
[/quote]

Thanks Steve, great advice.

Silly question probably but I'm assuming it's brushed on? How many coats and how long to dry?

Thanks
Tony

[tonyf]

Found this. Is this suitable both in terms of the job and the quantity?

[url="http://marinestore.co.uk/West_System_G___Flex_650_8_Epoxy_236ml.html"]http://marinestore.co.uk/West_System_G___Flex_650_8_Epoxy_236ml.html[/url]

[steve-soar]

If you can get a glass beaker and a glass rod, like in school chemistry, you can spread it on with the side of the rod, or anything similar shaped will do.
Using a brush puts tiny little air bubbles into the epoxy, which are a pain when sanding as they leave little pits.

Like I say, try to experiment on a bit of scrap first.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='tonyf' timestamp='1348657522' post='1816473']
Found this. Is this suitable both in terms of the job and the quantity?

[url="http://marinestore.co.uk/West_System_G___Flex_650_8_Epoxy_236ml.html"]http://marinestore.c...poxy_236ml.html[/url]
[/quote]No, thats more of a flexible sealer. You need the standard stuff, I can't remember the exact code, (damn it).

Give me a few mins.

[steve-soar]

The problem is going to be the cost. Because as I recall, you can't buy small amounts of 2 stage epoxy. When I worked at KGB Music, Keith had half gallon bottles of the stuff which we used for all kinds of applications.
An afternoon on tinternet could brings something up.

[tonyf]

Thanks for the pointers Steve. I'm REALLY grateful for your help.

Just spent a little while reading this on another erm bass erm forum.

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f18/system-3-mirror-coat-epoxy-fretless-neck-882223/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f18/system-3-mirror-coat-epoxy-fretless-neck-882223/[/url]

Blimey. A LOT of work and science involved. Jaco may have pulled the frets out with his teeth but I'm sure he had to dig out his chemistry books to do the epoxying.

T

[tonyf]

The above article suggests an alternative of [url="http://eti-usa.com/envirotex-lite/"]http://eti-usa.com/envirotex-lite/[/url]

Can be found here...
[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Envirotex-Lite-Pour-On-Sealing-Bottlecaps/dp/B005E2OUJQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_2"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Envirotex-Lite-Pour-On-Sealing-Bottlecaps/dp/B005E2OUJQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_2[/url]

T

[steve-soar]

That's the thread! It's all there but a lot of hard work.

Good luck, mate.

[steve-soar]

That stuff looks interesting.

[Conan]

How much does that "pour-in" method raise the level of the fretboard though? It looks a pretty thick coat so I guess it's either a huge amount of sanding or you leave the nut at it's original height (i.e. what it was when the frets were in place)?

Seems a heck of a lot of work...

[tonyf]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1348668948' post='1816703']
How much does that "pour-in" method raise the level of the fretboard though? It looks a pretty thick coat so I guess it's either a huge amount of sanding or you leave the nut at it's original height (i.e. what it was when the frets were in place)?

Seems a heck of a lot of work...
[/quote]

Dat's a fact.

After defretting the neck last night and filling the slots, TBH, I'm at the point now where I'm reconsidering the whole "epoxyied board" thing.

The mirrored finish looks amazing but I've gotta put it into context. It's a MASSIVE phaff, especially as I've not got the best of patience. Time's limited too for me, Mrs TonyF works away during the week leaving me to look after little Miss TonyF. If a couple of hours max at the end of the day doing a kitchen table defret with a screwdriver and my teeth is good enough for Jaco, it's good enough for me.

Having done a rough sand post defret to get rid of some chips, the board is actually a really nice bit of rosewood. I think I'm just gonna finish sanding down the excess filler for the fret lines, get it finish sanded and then blitz it with lemon oil and see how that sounds and plays.

[keeptrying]

Stating the obvious but flat wounds won't chomp your fretboard like a hungry round wound will.
pictures of the build look sweet.

[tonyf]

[quote name='keeptrying' timestamp='1348738018' post='1817461']
Stating the obvious but flat wounds won't chomp your fretboard like a hungry round wound will.
pictures of the build look sweet.
[/quote]

Thanks for the compliment

I've only tried flats a couple of times and didn't get on with them. Of course that could be because of the strings I tried, Chromes they were. Found them way too much tension for me and struggled with the tone. However, I guess I could shop around to try another set but TBH, I really like the sound of roundwounds and the wear on the fingerboard isn't that great a concern at the moment. I'll see how it goes.

T

[DaveFry]

I have just nearly finished my first defret using superglue on the fingerboard . I used two and and a half of the small bottles that you get four of for £1 at the local pound store .
I followed these instructions ; [url="http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0139.html"]http://www.stewmac.c...ive/ts0139.html[/url]

If you don't have a radiussed sanding block it is easy enough to make one ;
If the board is ,say , 12" radius then find a drum ( catering/ cooking oil drum , whatever ) of 24" diameter , tape or glue a piece of sandpaper to it , and sand a piece of softwood up and down the drum till you get the radius on one face .

When wet-sanding and moving up the grades be sure to clean the board and wash the papers between grades of grit .

Rotosound 88s on a fretless P copy sound great here .

[tonyf]

Dave,

Looks like a great alternative to the epoxy approach. I'll have a look at this later when I get home.

T

[henry norton]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1348668948' post='1816703']
How much does that "pour-in" method raise the level of the fretboard though? It looks a pretty thick coat so I guess it's either a huge amount of sanding or you leave the nut at it's original height (i.e. what it was when the frets were in place)?

Seems a heck of a lot of work...
[/quote]
I used to use the multi coat method but found it gave trouble with bubbles and witness marks (vague lines when you inevitably sand through the multiple coats). Casting the board in one is actually quite easy and avoids witness marks and bubbles if you're careful. It also means you only have to mix and handle and cure one batch of epoxy rather than three or four. The final thickness depends on how much you put on in the first place and how much you're willing to sand off afterwards. Up 'til last year I offered a 1mm coating and also a Jaco style 3mm but I never did the 3 for anyone - I think players worried it would make the neck too different to what they were used to. I still mean to do an epoxied maple method/build diary exclusive to Basschat but I haven't got it together to post the pictures as yet

[RichardH]

[quote name='tonyf' timestamp='1348738764' post='1817486']
Thanks for the compliment

I've only tried flats a couple of times and didn't get on with them. Of course that could be because of the strings I tried, Chromes they were. Found them way too much tension for me and struggled with the tone. However, I guess I could shop around to try another set but TBH, I really like the sound of roundwounds and the wear on the fingerboard isn't that great a concern at the moment. I'll see how it goes.

T
[/quote]

A really good low tension flatwound string is the TI Jazz Flats. However, they're not cheap, so may be a bit of a pricey experiment if you're not sure of the tone - I love them though!

Edited September 28, 2012 by RichardH

[The Burpster]

.....or you can just wait two years and send it off to HG Thor who is renowned as probably the best as this as its his whole business. Oh and incidently Jaco played his work.
As I have a neck done by him I can vouch for the his work and the results.

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/112736-prs-eb-iv-hg-thor-fretless/page__hl__hg%20thor

[henry norton]

[quote name='The Burpster' timestamp='1349208973' post='1823420']
.....or you can just wait two years and send it off to HG Thor who is renowned as probably the best as this as its his whole business. Oh and incidently Jaco played his work.
As I have a neck done by him I can vouch for the his work and the results.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/112736-prs-eb-iv-hg-thor-fretless/page__hl__hg%20thor"]http://basschat.co.u...__hl__hg%20thor[/url]
[/quote]

Maybe the two years he quotes is to give you time to sell your house, or one of your vital organs....