thepurpleblob Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 ...however, if you don't know ask. I bought this Berklee book and I'm confused on page one. The chord structure introduced for C major goes like this... 1 - C 3 - E 5 - G Maj7 - B 9 - D #11 - F# 13 - A ....what I can't figure out is why the 11 is sharp. At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious C major doesn't have an sharps in it. Even the Wikipedia article on extended chords claims that an extended I chord has no sharps (I think). Can anybody explain before the book goes on eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Its not an 11th, but an augmented 11th (written in your post as #11). I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yes it is, but why? Well, why does the book throw in an augmented 11th (an altered chord??) on page 1, lesson 1 with no explanation. I take it I am meant to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think it's called an extended arpeggio. The intervals between the notes are alternating major third and minor third. As you build the chords you go C, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, Cmaj9#11, etc. But I'm right at the edge of my knowledge here so I could be talking rubbish and I'm definitely not explaining why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Oh and it's Lydian mode: C D E F# G A B C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Your first mistake was buying the Berklee book Your second mistake was buying the Berklee book Your third mistake was buying the Berklee book ............................................................................................... Your hundredth mistake was buying the Berklee book Seriously. Berklee students are expected to have a reasonable musical grounding before they start there. To save classroom time I suppose, which is expensive. (also the books are bloody [i][b]boring [/b][/i]theory, dull dull dullsville!) Edited May 10, 2012 by daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The #11 is certainly beyond basic chord theory. Not necessarily a problem in itself - it may be that the author is putting everything out there up front and then going on to develop the ideas gradually. In chord terms it may be better to think of it the way a Jazz player would, i.e. as a b5. Even so, it's a bit out there at this stage (certainly when identified as a #4). I assume you've scanned a little way ahead in the book to see how it develops? Without knowing where you've got to already it's hard to know what to advise, but if you want to develop your understanding of chord structures there's plenty of people on this forum that would, I'm sure, be glad to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Well... I think I get the basics but probably not the finer points. The book is just full of exercises with no explanation or context which is a bit of a disappointment. I think, across the board, books like that are pretty useless. Maybe I'm overthinking it , but I don't like just doing exercises without grasping the underlying theory. It was actually strongly recommended by some players in this forum. There should be one of those stickers for music books - "warning, this book contains Jazz concepts" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A 4th is not part of a standard chord. As you start extending chords, they are simply different flavours to add. The 2 most important notes in a chord are the 3rd & 7th. These create the platform on which the extension to sit. So for example, a Cmaj9#11 in theory has C E G B D F# but in reality all those notes played together sound clumbsy so you'll find piano players with play just the C E B F# to get the sound, or some instances E B D F# and forget the root altogether and leave other players to take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Leaving the root out of the chord is a very common jazz guitarists trick, especially in a band with a bass player... As a bass player, keeping a root note in the chord is usually a good idea - not a 'must do', but will rarely sound bad if used. As Jake said, leaving the fifth out of a crowded chord can be good idea as well - harmonically it adds very little, and in an extended chord it's the extensions that you really want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Woodcock Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 On a major chord the perfect 4th (or 11th) is regarded as an 'avoid' note as it clashes with the major 3rd. The #11 is considered quite a 'hip' note to play though so it is often substituted in its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 [quote name='Stickman' timestamp='1336667965' post='1649256'] On a major chord the perfect 4th (or 11th) is regarded as an 'avoid' note as it clashes with the major 3rd. The #11 is considered quite a 'hip' note to play though so it is often substituted in its place. [/quote] +1 to this, if you play a perfect fourth in a chord, you essentially replace the 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1336675167' post='1649403'] +1 to this, if you play a perfect fourth in a chord, you essentially replace the 3rd. [/quote] ... and that's a sus4 - yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Yup. Unless there are any extensions of course... Edited May 10, 2012 by leftybassman392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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