Passive D.I through the speaker out.

[SkinnyMike]

So I recently acquired an Orange Ad200b which doesn't have a D.I out.
I know you can run a D.I through the speaker out using something like the Radial JDI or the countryman, but there pretty expensive (£150+).

I did however come across this: [url="http://www.dbxpro.com/db10/"]http://www.dbxpro.com/db10/[/url] The DBX db10.

For almost half the price, would this solve my D.I problem for a fraction of the price that I have originally been looking at?

Edited April 30, 2012 by SkinnyMike

[BigRedX]

In theory it will work.

However... because you are driving it from the speaker output turning up the amp will also turn up the feed to the DI and consequently the desk. I don't think these types of DI boxes are intended to be used with high power amps. There isn't a power rating on the model you linked to, but I wouldn't be happy running it from anything greater than a 100W amp and I would be very reluctant to attach it to anything with valves in the output stage.

[hamfist]

Take a look at the Behringer DI-100. It is one of the really good bits of kit that Behringer make and is uber reliable. They say that you can use it into the speaker outs with amps up to 3000 Watts, so I think a 200W should be well within it's abilities. I have used one many times in the way you suggest with guitar amps up to 100W.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1335803524' post='1636278']
Take a look at the Behringer DI-100. It is one of the really good bits of kit that Behringer make and is uber reliable. They say that you can use it into the speaker outs with amps up to 3000 Watts, so I think a 200W should be well within it's abilities. I have used one many times in the way you suggest with guitar amps up to 100W.
[/quote]

Has anyone actually tried running one of these from a speaker output?

Even if you can attach it to a 3kW amp I think it's usability might be related to the setting of the output volume control on the amp. It would be interesting to hear from someone with real world experience.

[hamfist]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1335812029' post='1636471']
Has anyone actually tried running one of these from a speaker output?

Even if you can attach it to a 3kW amp I think it's usability might be related to the setting of the output volume control on the amp. It would be interesting to hear from someone with real world experience.
[/quote]

Er, yes, I just said that I had run one of these from speaker outputs many, many times. And yes, the DI signal to the desk (or whatever) is altered when you change your amp's volume out to the speaker(s). However, IME, once it's set at the beginning of the gig most folks don't usually alter it too drastically. They might well tweak it up a bit during the gig, as many folks do, but then the whole band is getting a bit louder also, to compensate. So long as the gain level into the desk has a little bit of leeway for a small increase in the signal strength, all should be fine.
I think what the Behringer box does is outstanding for the few quid it costs.

To cope with the big differences between input levels between, say, a 200W amp and a 3kW amp, the box has two pad buttons to bring any massive signals down to a useable level.
For me, the biggest drawback is probably the need to use 1/4" jacks for connection in the speaker pathway (the DI is obviously XLR out). I'd rather use speakon but, hey ho, with up to say a 200W amp I'd be happy to use 1/4" connections.

[Monckyman]

Does the amp "see" the DI in regard to Ohms load?
If not it might be a useful way of removing two guitar mics+stands from my chan list. Plus less stage spill into same mics from noisy drummer/bassist.
Edit to say although I have the usual ingrained aversion to Behringer products from a professional point of view, I now find the build quality and sonic improvements in most of their products over the last 5 years makes them completely useable in a live situation.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Monckyman

[markstuk]

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr98/articles/diboxes.html"]http://www.soundonso...es/diboxes.html[/url]

See bit on connecting amp outputs.. I was surprised as well :-)

Edited May 1, 2012 by markstuk

[Beer of the Bass]

I tried this a few weeks ago with a BSS AR116 on the output of a 100 watt valve amp, running off the spare speaker output. Since the input impedance of the DI box is 50K ohms or more in parallel with an 8 ohm speaker, it makes no significant difference to the impedance the amp sees, and very little power goes to the DI box. I found that it needed heavy EQ to be usable though, as an amp that sounds good through a tweeterless cab can be painfully bright when run direct. Even the 4KHz lowpass setting on the BSS isn't enough on its own.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1335870380' post='1637162']
I found that it needed heavy EQ to be usable though, as an amp that sounds good through a tweeterless cab can be painfully bright when run direct. Even the 4KHz lowpass setting on the BSS isn't enough on its own.
[/quote]

Absolutely true. Also, there is the Behringer GI-100, which is the same as a DI-100 but has an extra switchable speaker sim on it for the XLR output. This is actually the box I have. It works very well for simulating a guitar cab, and takes all the harsh brightness off, but it may not be great for bass. I have not tried it with bass though.

[Monckyman]

All the demos I can find have the GI sim voiced for guitar but the sim is switchable so it`s still a good cheap D.I if you want to use it elsewhere.

[SkinnyMike]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1335863142' post='1636973']
[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr98/articles/diboxes.html"]http://www.soundonso...es/diboxes.html[/url]

See bit on connecting amp outputs.. I was surprised as well :-)
[/quote]

Interesting read, I didn't know active D.I boxes could handle a feed from the speaker out. I still am however being more and more swayed to go a bit more expensive, as something like the Radial JDI or Countryman 85 will last me for as long as I tour and I want to make sure the quality sent to the desk is second to none.

On the flip side, has anyone A/B'd any of the Behringers with a microphone on bass (or guitar)? How do they compare to an sm57 or similar?

[hamfist]

[quote name='SkinnyMike' timestamp='1335959669' post='1638574']
On the flip side, has anyone A/B'd any of the Behringers with a microphone on bass (or guitar)? How do they compare to an sm57 or similar?
[/quote]

I have done masses of A/Bing of the GI-100 compared with a miked cab with guitar. In a studio environment, the miked cab will sound nicer every time. However, in the hurly burly of a live gig environment, the GI-100 signal is much more predictable, and easier to set up. SO, for recording, I'd go for a mike every time, but for live .... well there's a lot of pro's for the behringer DI, compared to a mike.
BTW, I also compared the Behringer with much more expensive boxes from Palmer and Hughes & Kettner (all with guitar). The Behringer won out for me !