Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1328713624' post='1531541'] So i was idly wondering whether a lower impedence cab would free up some headroom. [/quote]Not enough to bother with. If your amp has adequate voltage swing to drive the speaker to full output at 8 ohms then you gain nothing by going to four. If it doesn't the most additional output you can get is 2dB, because an amp doesn't deliver twice the power into a halved impedance load at full power, it does so only at small signal levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1328713624' post='1531541'] Thanks for the thoughts. My amp does go down to 2, as it happens, but the point I'm getting here is that the gain from the 4 vs 8 probably isn't worth bothering with, given that I've already got a sensitive cab. I was thinking about this mainly cos when I raise my cab on a stand (to avoid feedback from the upright) I lose a lot of oomph. So i was idly wondering whether a lower impedence cab would free up some headroom. You can see that a two cab solution couldn't work for this. Most likely, i'm going to try raising the cab by a lot less and hoping it's as effective at avoiding the feedback demons. Pity, cos raising the cab totally avoids any problem even at very high volumes. [/quote] http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Auralex_Isolation_Risers.html This item might alleviate any feedback and give you all the ooomph you amp and cab can provide. I use one, it de-couples the cab from the floor and thereby removes unwanted resonance as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Definitely from what you've all said, the extra output wouldn't be enough to matter. As for the problems resulting from raising the cab, I've posted about that before and it seems the loss of low and low mid isn't from lack of contact but from boundary cancellation. Basically, i'm raising the cab too high. The wedge is a good idea (wonder if Alex is offering his yet?). Failing that, I'll have to rely on the notch filter. Which is what better brains than mine advised me all along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1328724387' post='1531762'] [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Auralex_Isolation_Risers.html"]http://www.bassdirec...ion_Risers.html[/url] This item might alleviate any feedback and give you all the ooomph you amp and cab can provide. I use one, it de-couples the cab from the floor and thereby removes unwanted resonance as well. [/quote]Most of the claims made by that are snake-oil. Alex covers it well on the Barefaced Bass site. If you do need to do what the Auralex does one of these does it just as well: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trial-Camping-Pad-Blue/16783660 [quote]As for the problems resulting from raising the cab, I've posted about that before and it seems the loss of low and low mid isn't from lack of contact but from boundary cancellation. Basically, i'm raising the cab too high. [/quote]+1, there are no losses from lack of mechanical coupling because there's no such thing as mechanical coupling, other than in advertising copy. Raise it too high and you lose some acoustical coupling in the midbass, when that's the case don't lift it so high to hear the mids, just til it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It's all very well being "Techy" with Vested interest, I'm just a punter happy with a product. It might suit, it might not, no big deal . I'm sure a trial would clarify this.... Snake Oil ...shame on you are you not selling enough "Voice of the Theatre" design concepts? Oooooer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1328736330' post='1532029'] It's all very well being "Techy" with Vested interest, I'm just a punter happy with a product. It might suit, it might not, no big deal . I'm sure a trial would clarify this.... Snake Oil ...shame on you are you not selling enough "Voice of the Theatre" design concepts? Oooooer . [/quote]There are uses for isolation pads, decoupling isn't one of them. Sorry that you accepted their advertising claims at face value and paid ten times what you needed to. But there's no need to recommend that others follow suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have not found camping mats as effective as strips of thicker structural foam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1328740333' post='1532100'] I have not found camping mats as effective as strips of thicker structural foam. [/quote]I use a single thickness to isolate a rattling head from the cab and it works very well. If you need more isolation you may use more than one layer, and there's a lot of material in one mat to cut up and stack. The only application where I've found thick structural foam to be necessary is for isolating a drum riser from a flimsy floor or stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1328739418' post='1532082'] There are uses for isolation pads, decoupling isn't one of them. Sorry that you accepted their advertising claims at face value and paid ten times what you needed to. But there's no need to recommend that others follow suit. [/quote] I'm just a punter that bought a product that does the job (for me) is Aesthetically pleasing to the eye (my eye), and does'nt look like i've attacked a crusties bedroll with a stanley knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) [rant] I don't know and don't want to discuss the efectivness of the gramma pads but i must say that they are too expensive. You can build one as just good with a tiny fraction of the cost, here's what you need: - a piece of ply-board cut in the mesure you need; - a piece of carpet; - two chunks of hardcase foam (don't know the real name but it's the foam they apply inside the hardcases, the dark-grey one); - contact glue; construction: Just cover the ply with the carpet and them glue the bits of foam on the bottom! There you have it!!! It's funny how i see some BC'ers building cabs and modding they basses but then go and spend a small fortune in something like this... [/rant] Edited February 9, 2012 by Ghost_Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1328788738' post='1532588'] [rant] I don't know and don't want to discuss the efectivness of the gramma pads but i must say that they are too expensive. You can build one as just good with a tiny fraction of the cost, here's what you need: - a piece of ply-board cut in the mesure you need; - a piece of carpet; - two chunks of hardcase foam (don't know the real name but it's the foam they apply inside the hardcases, the dark-grey one); - contact glue; construction: Just cover the ply with the carpet and them glue the bits of foam on the bottom! There you have it!!! It's funny how i see some BC'ers building cabs and modding they basses but then go and spend a small fortune in something like this... [/rant] [/quote] Fatback, posed a question, many people offered opinions based on experience and offered variations on a solution to the issue including Bill who designs cabs for a living. I am sure Fatback is now armed with sufficient information to make his own decision, just as it was my decision to buy the Gramma, each to their own, thats why this is a vibrant and sometimes robust forum with input from all types of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1328792731' post='1532673'] Fatback, posed a question, many people offered opinions based on experience and offered variations on a solution to the issue including Bill who designs cabs for a living. I am sure Fatback is now armed with sufficient information to make his own decision, just as it was my decision to buy the Gramma, each to their own, thats why this is a vibrant and sometimes robust forum with input from all types of players. [/quote] You're right, this was just a bit of off-topic that i've wanted to release for some time now. It was not intended to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Sorry but £45 for a device (Auralex) that improves your sound quality live is hardly a fortune. Bet the the average cost of everyone's rig (bass(es), amp, cabs, pedals) is many times that amount. As for making one, I'm betting most of us are too inept or can't be @rsed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1328792956' post='1532677'] You're right, this was just a bit of off-topic that i've wanted to release for some time now. It was not intended to you! [/quote] +1 for could'nt be @rsed and no offense taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1328793097' post='1532685'] Sorry but £45 for a device that improves your sound quality live is hardly a fortune. [/quote]No argument there. However, a great deal of the justification for that price is the claim that [i]'This riser yields nearly total acoustic isolation, resulting in a purity of tone that has to be heard to be believed![/i]' is pure unadulterated baloney, a fact that should be pointed out to those considering purchasing one. One of the purposes of a forum such as this is to point out whether a product delivers on it's promises, and if there are alternatives that work just as well at a far lower cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 +1 Bill. As for the wedge, I have used a broken Boss guitar pedal for years to tip speakers up slightly, I have to say it works better as a wedge than a pedal but it is certainly not the cheapest option. A piece of wood is cheaper (unless you get a block of Purpleheart). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1328793097' post='1532685'] Sorry but £45 for a device (Auralex) that improves your sound quality live is hardly a fortune. Bet the the average cost of everyone's rig (bass(es), amp, cabs, pedals) is many times that amount. As for making one, I'm betting most of us are too inept or can't be @rsed [/quote] Sorry but £45 is still some money when you could get it done yourself for less than £5... most (if not all) the material you can get for free! I would rather use the remaining £40 to buy a used tuner or a compressor on the sales forum and that would definetly improve my sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328796338' post='1532764'] As for the wedge, I have used a broken Boss guitar pedal for years to tip speakers up slightly, I have to say it works better as a wedge than a pedal but it is certainly not the cheapest option. A piece of wood is cheaper (unless you get a block of Purpleheart). [/quote] But a piece of wood does not give you the mechanical isolation. Bill's use of camping mat is fine for that application, just stopping a head rattling. Put a speaker on a boomy stage and it will ring out like a tom tom. Put it on camping mat and if it's heavy it compresses the mat, compromising its effectiveness as a mechanical isolator. I have found inch-thick structural foam to be very effective, giving me (much) more than 6dB in the lower mids at a gig over NY, and that's an interaction effect a pedal couldn't achieve (the stage will ring long after the note stops). It has to be rigid enough not to compress with the weight but not so much that it forms a good contact for vibration transmission itself. I can't see what the point of those acoustic wedges are on the aurelex at all though, but they aren't going to do any harm. In any case it's all only relevant on a boomy stage. Anyway back to the topic, I think there is a point to a 4 ohm cab and that's when you're using these little micro heads and they start running out of headroom at 8 ohms. The speaker is loud enough, but the amp is compromising the tone. Sometimes that little jump from (notional) 300 to 500 watts is all you need. Edited February 9, 2012 by LawrenceH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1328799514' post='1532837'] Anyway back to the topic, I think there is a point to a 4 ohm cab and that's when you're using these little micro heads and they start running out of headroom at 8 ohms. The speaker is loud enough, but the amp is compromising the tone. Sometimes that little jump from (notional) 300 to 500 watts is all you need. [/quote] That was my thinking, just wondering whether i could get more out of little EA doubler than I'm getting with the midget. re the auralex, I have some auralex strips that cope with boominess nicely and cheaply, but I think a proper wedge stand is what I need to try now. I imagine the forthcoming (?) barefaced product will be well thought through. Edited February 9, 2012 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Sorry Lawrence, I think there's some confusion between an 'acoustic wedge' with a common or garden 'wedge', the idea of the latter being simply to tilt the speaker so it is pointing upwards, thereby helping fatback to hear his bass without spending a small fortune on an over priced bit of plywood and welcome mat combo... [IMG]http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj493/brensabre79/Wooden_wedge_door_stop.jpg[/IMG] There are also speaker stands you can get that hold the speaker about a foot off the ground and tilt it upwards so you can hear yourself, but with what Bill has said about coupling maybe a simple wedge (the common sort - like you use to hold a door open but maybe a bit larger) would help with the predicament in hand. Such as this: [IMG]http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj493/brensabre79/QLBS317.jpg[/IMG] http://www.millennium-music.co.uk/quiklok-amp-stand-bs317 (other stores also stock them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 [url="http://www.millennium-music.co.uk/quiklok-amp-stand-bs317"]http://www.millenniu...amp-stand-bs317[/url] (other stores also stock them) thanks for that bren. Just the thing, and reasonably priced. i'm curious what alex at barefaced has up his sleeve though. Bet he has an extra selling point somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1328803672' post='1532923'] i'm curious what alex at barefaced has up his sleeve though. Bet he has an extra selling point somewhere. [/quote] No doubt. I think Alex and Bobby have just got a new CNC machine so they'll probably be a bit busy with that for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328803849' post='1532929'] No doubt. I think Alex and Bobby have just got a new CNC machine so they'll probably be a bit busy with that for now... [/quote] What's a CNC machine? I confess I'm only asking to see me tick up to 999 posts I expect the one after to produce a shining light in the sky and a flurry of esoteric bass knowledge to descend on my head. And suddenly to be able to play in tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Its a cabinet building machine I think. A bit like the robot from the 80s film short circuit except it can't talk and it only builds cabinets. Congrats in advance on making your 1000th post! you really should get out more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1328804240' post='1532940'] I confess I'm only asking to see me tick up to 999 posts I expect the one after to produce a shining light in the sky and a flurry of esoteric bass knowledge to descend on my head. And suddenly to be able to play in tune. [/quote] [attachment=99589:av-7448.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.