GonzoBass Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 First off- Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge so generously with us through the "Boot Camp Sessions"! I wondered if you would be so kind as to show your approach to a walking line over several bars of one chord. Perhaps using "So What?" as an example? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Can't get into it the way MM does but my advice is to work at developing lines that are logical and melodic. THe simple fact is that playing a tune like So What will involve the D (and Eb) Dorian minor scale. However, in using that scale you can use pretty much any note as a passing note (open the line with a descending chromatic scale, for instance, D, Db, C, B, A and so on). The problem is that any note in the dorian scale is not wrong, but many are not right in context. If you randomly play notes in the D Dorian, you are not playing wrong notes, just poor choices that won't gel in any musical sense. The note choices need to follow some sort of logic; follow the scale, build the scale in thirds, use the chord tones, use strong notes (D, F and A) on beats one and three and weak notes on the other beats etc. Think not just about the next note and whether it is in the requisite key but think about the next bar, the next two bars, four bars or eight bars. Build you lines around their own internal logic, at first resolving them on the second, fourth or eighth bar but, in time, that will become boring and you will seek to broaden the options be crossing bar lines etc. But the most important thing, and by far the hardest to master, is to make sure that your lines are contributing to the whole piece and are not random acts of bass excess. If the soloist's lines are going up, you may wish to have yours going down. If his lines are syncopated, you may want to stay on the beat, if they are on the beat, you may think about breaking your lines up. If he plays frantically, you may chose to build with him or go in the opposite direction. The drummer may play straight time and you can play melodically, or he may break the time up and you become the time keeper and anchor. Whatever you do, make sure it has a musical purpose and some conscious intent and isn't just a random sequence of notes in D Dorian (for the record; listen to Moondance and you have a lesson in how NOT to construct a walking line). If in doubt, transcribe the greats. Paul Chambers is a great starting point but another I looked at early on was 'Ja-Hed' off Kenny Garrett's African Exchange Student. There are loads on tunes based on these changes (Coltrane's Impressions is another one). Write out some lines. As I have said before: modal playing; a moment to learn and a lifetime to master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1179202' date='Mar 28 2011, 10:17 AM']...listen to Moondance and you have a lesson in how NOT to construct a walking line.[/quote] Hey Bilbo - I agree from a listening point of view, but could you explain that from a theory standpoint? (I'll be the first to admit my knowledge in this area isn't the strongest). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The flaw in the Moondance line (apart from the poor sound and weak time) does not arise from the fact that there are wrong notes in there (although I suspect there are - not listened to it for a while) but in the fact that there is no logic to them. Its in a minor key so the note options for the minor chords would be similar to So What but the Moondance lines have no direction. They don't lead anywhere, there is no impetus created by the line itself. Its just a randon set off notes from a minor scale. It is clearly played by someone who doesn't understand the art of the walking bass line. I could probably explain better if I had a copy of the tune in front of me but that would require me to listen to it again and I don't want to waste another 4 minutes of my short life on that monstrosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Fair points indeed. Thanks for that. Anytime I have to play it I try to get away from the intro line and just walk over the Dorian as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major-Minor Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='GonzoBass' post='1178691' date='Mar 27 2011, 08:21 PM']First off- Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge so generously with us through the "Boot Camp Sessions"! I wondered if you would be so kind as to show your approach to a walking line over several bars of one chord. Perhaps using "So What?" as an example? Thanks again![/quote] Great idea! I'll do a session on this just as soon as I can. But in the meantime, what Bilbo has written here is all excellent advice (as you would expect !). The Major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 This site has a tutorial on So What/modal tunes in general: [url="http://www.cliffengel.com/bass_lessons/online/modal_tunes/"]maybe it's useful?[/url] I remember reading about how PC supposedly thought in/used larger chunks than just a bar, in order to create lines with a sense of direction. Obviously this is really important for modal tunes, but it's also really useful for tunes with more frequent chord changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Major-Minor' post='1179942' date='Mar 28 2011, 09:06 AM']Great idea! I'll do a session on this just as soon as I can.[/quote] Looking forward to it, Major! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 [quote name='Major-Minor' post='1179942' date='Mar 28 2011, 08:06 PM']Great idea! I'll do a session on this just as soon as I can. But in the meantime, what Bilbo has written here is all excellent advice (as you would expect !). The Major[/quote] Nice one Major. Lovin your work. Thanks for the effort that you have put in it has helped me immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1179298' date='Mar 28 2011, 11:41 AM']The flaw in the Moondance line (apart from the poor sound and weak time) does not arise from the fact that there are wrong notes in there (although I suspect there are - not listened to it for a while) but in the fact that there is no logic to them. Its in a minor key so the note options for the minor chords would be similar to So What but the Moondance lines have no direction. They don't lead anywhere, there is no impetus created by the line itself. Its just a randon set off notes from a minor scale. It is clearly played by someone who doesn't understand the art of the walking bass line. I could probably explain better if I had a copy of the tune in front of me but that would require me to listen to it again and I don't want to waste another 4 minutes of my short life on that monstrosity. [/quote] Moondance. Pretty successful record and whilst not musically perfect people love it. I have seen them dance to it. Never seen that of so what. Think it is better to be positive about songs, bass players etc than just detail the musical imperfections. Opinions are one thing but negativity, especially in music is not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 [quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='1185231' date='Apr 1 2011, 08:25 PM']Moondance. Pretty successful record and whilst not musically perfect people love it. I have seen them dance to it. Never seen that of so what. Think it is better to be positive about songs, bass players etc than just detail the musical imperfections. Opinions are one thing but negativity, especially in music is not for me.[/quote] I'm all for being positive,but that doesn't stop Moondance from being a bad example of a walking bassline. In fairness,nobody is arguing about if people dance to it or not,it's about constructing a walking line over one chord. In that respect 'So What' is a great example.'Moondance' is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1185244' date='Apr 1 2011, 08:36 PM']I'm all for being positive,but that doesn't stop Moondance from being a bad example of a walking bassline. In fairness,nobody is arguing about if people dance to it or not,it's about constructing a walking line over one chord. In that respect 'So What' is a great example.'Moondance' is not.[/quote] Good point pal. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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