Lord Sausage

21 hours ago, Bassassin said:

J'arrive!

These are interesting, and subject of a lot of speculation over in MIJland. Prepare to be bored into a coma.

Strongly Burns-influenced, but not a straight copy, there are several variations on this same design, indicating a number of different factories made them over quite a long period.

What seem to be the earliest ones have a 2-a-side headstock & a pronounced German carve. Hardware & general features place these at mid-late 60s. As ever with this sort of thing, unless a brand name refers to a specific factory, ignore it:

https://reverb.com/item/18207457-dynatone-guyatone-short-scale-bass-1960-s-aged-white

There's also a guitar version of this style.

Subsequent versions have the 4-inline headstock, chrome pickups, tort plate etc that @Lord Sausage's example have. Here's where a brand name is useful, up to a point - these sometimes turn up branded Sakai, which was an actual manufacturer, Sakai Mokko. They can also have build traits associated with Sakai. This version appear in an early 70s Aria catalogue (probably 73-4, not 1970 as the link suggests) alongside a pair of Kalamazoo KG copies, which are also thought to be Sakai Mokko guitars:

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/aria-1970-catalogue/

This is where the mistaken connection with Matsumoku comes from - the incorrect assumption that all Aria/Aria Pro II instruments were Matsumoku products. It's interesting that the images are unbranded factory catalogue shots, and I can't remember one of these (or the KG lookey-likeys) being seen in the wild branded Aria.

However while I don't think Matsumoku was connected with these, there are enough variations to suggest several other factories were - some have 6-bolt neckplates, some have mahogany necks, others maple, while still others have painted necks covering strip ply construction - a known Sakai trait. All these minor differences suggest different factories made them, or were involved in supplying components. This might likely point to the involvement of Matsumoto Gakki Seizou Kumiai, the so-called Matsumoto Manufacturers Association, a collaborative group building instruments sourced from various woodshops, hardware & electronics manufacturers in the Matsumoto City area.

There are later, and slightly more crude versions of the same bass which were made in Korea, not Japan. This points to the migration of the manufacture of low-end instruments from Japan to Korea in the mid/late 70s, and demonstrating how specific established designs were exported. This one is branded Arirang (named after a traditional Korean song), a common 70s/80s Korean brand name. It's unclear whether Arirang was a manufacturer in its own right, as there's evidence suggesting it might have been a sub-brand of Samick.

https://reverb.com/item/786783-arirang-short-scale-bass-1970s-olympic-white-mahogany-neck

It's entirely probable that manufacture of this style continued in Korea (and possibly Taiwan) into the 80s, like many designs & styles that originated in Japan in the 60s did. Which coincidentally, leads me quite neatly to...

Yeah - I can & they didn't! Well, broadly anyway. Excuse me while I rant incoherently:

There's a tendency for people to look at anything old looking & Far-Eastern looking and go TEISSSCOOOOO!!! (in the same way anything late 70s/early 80s & stripey provokes MATSUUMOOKUUUU!!! - as though no-one else ever ripped off Alembic) whereas the reality is there were countless manufacturers making & exporting similar odd little guitars in the 60s. Many of these designs continued being made as starter instruments in the 70s, alongside the 'proper' copies, and later being manufactured in Korea & Taiwan through the 70s & 80s. Teisco was actually taken over by Kawai Gakki in 1967, and ceased manufacturing in its own right at that point, and a lot of what people try to flog as '60s Teisco' is actually 80s Taiwanese catalogue tat.

And breathe. There. It's over. You made it. Well done you!  

Thanks by the way.

Thanks to everyone, cheers

7 hours ago, Bassassin said:

J'arrive!

These are interesting, and subject of a lot of speculation over in MIJland. Prepare to be bored into a coma.

Strongly Burns-influenced, but not a straight copy, there are several variations on this same design, indicating a number of different factories made them over quite a long period.

What seem to be the earliest ones have a 2-a-side headstock & a pronounced German carve. Hardware & general features place these at mid-late 60s. As ever with this sort of thing, unless a brand name refers to a specific factory, ignore it:

https://reverb.com/item/18207457-dynatone-guyatone-short-scale-bass-1960-s-aged-white

There's also a guitar version of this style.

Subsequent versions have the 4-inline headstock, chrome pickups, tort plate etc that @Lord Sausage's example have. Here's where a brand name is useful, up to a point - these sometimes turn up branded Sakai, which was an actual manufacturer, Sakai Mokko. They can also have build traits associated with Sakai. This version appear in an early 70s Aria catalogue (probably 73-4, not 1970 as the link suggests) alongside a pair of Kalamazoo KG copies, which are also thought to be Sakai Mokko guitars:

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/aria-1970-catalogue/

This is where the mistaken connection with Matsumoku comes from - the incorrect assumption that all Aria/Aria Pro II instruments were Matsumoku products. It's interesting that the images are unbranded factory catalogue shots, and I can't remember one of these (or the KG lookey-likeys) being seen in the wild branded Aria.

However while I don't think Matsumoku was connected with these, there are enough variations to suggest several other factories were - some have 6-bolt neckplates, some have mahogany necks, others maple, while still others have painted necks covering strip ply construction - a known Sakai trait. All these minor differences suggest different factories made them, or were involved in supplying components. This might likely point to the involvement of Matsumoto Gakki Seizou Kumiai, the so-called Matsumoto Manufacturers Association, a collaborative group building instruments sourced from various woodshops, hardware & electronics manufacturers in the Matsumoto City area.

There are later, and slightly more crude versions of the same bass which were made in Korea, not Japan. This points to the migration of the manufacture of low-end instruments from Japan to Korea in the mid/late 70s, and demonstrating how specific established designs were exported. This one is branded Arirang (named after a traditional Korean song), a common 70s/80s Korean brand name. It's unclear whether Arirang was a manufacturer in its own right, as there's evidence suggesting it might have been a sub-brand of Samick.

https://reverb.com/item/786783-arirang-short-scale-bass-1970s-olympic-white-mahogany-neck

It's entirely probable that manufacture of this style continued in Korea (and possibly Taiwan) into the 80s, like many designs & styles that originated in Japan in the 60s did. Which coincidentally, leads me quite neatly to...

Yeah - I can & they didn't! Well, broadly anyway. Excuse me while I rant incoherently:

There's a tendency for people to look at anything old looking & Far-Eastern looking and go TEISSSCOOOOO!!! (in the same way anything late 70s/early 80s & stripey provokes MATSUUMOOKUUUU!!! - as though no-one else ever ripped off Alembic) whereas the reality is there were countless manufacturers making & exporting similar odd little guitars in the 60s. Many of these designs continued being made as starter instruments in the 70s, alongside the 'proper' copies, and later being manufactured in Korea & Taiwan through the 70s & 80s. Teisco was actually taken over by Kawai Gakki in 1967, and ceased manufacturing in its own right at that point, and a lot of what people try to flog as '60s Teisco' is actually 80s Taiwanese catalogue tat.

And breathe. There. It's over. You made it. Well done you!  

Could you be a bit more in depth with your answer next time please!

It looks a lot like that 👍

10 minutes ago, gjones said:

Looks a lot like one of these.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/37774412-burns-baldwin-baby-bison-bass-guitar-c-1965-sunburst-original-vintage-uk?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12200508927&utm_content=campaignid=12200508927_adgroupid=115920727614_productpartitionid=1258648438448=merchantid=445804591_productid=37774412_keyword=_device=c_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=495081226236&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGhgVvSxKuYk8I4MG4EEHmI-jlugoAAVKqhZLBOHcqbNYID-KBMjGGgaAgeVEALw_wcB

This is on the wall at my son's guitar teachers studio. He's not quite sure what it is. Thinks it might be an old Tokai.

He started to remove the frets to turn it into a fretless but hasn't finished, that's why they're are no frets above the 12th.

Any ideas?

Cheers

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Our last keys player was a stoner who told us he didn’t need to know the key signature as he was primarily an ‘improvisationary’ player.

How's that a problem?

We had a player who we didn't tell him the key or chords. Just sussed it with his ear. Sign of a good musician to me.

If you're playing originals and you aren't writing specific parts for your player I'd take that as an advantage.

40 minutes ago, PaulThePlug said:

Any Help...

https://guitarsandwoods.com/guitar-and-bass-plans-stingray-5-string-bass-1099944045.html

 

I'll check it out, cheers

Does anybody know where i could get a printable pdf template for a 5 string musicman bass headstock?

cheers

https://youtu.be/09lmHPXYNks

45 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Maybe they are talking about themselves? I am collectable - as in I am able to collect things. 

Also, going down this road, anyone who says 'Pacific' instead of 'Specific' should be shot immediately and ground into a fine paste.

Could you be more pacific on the fineness of the paste?

41 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

I'm not the most ardent Zep fan but I'm familiar with their back catalogue. Planet Rock have just played an unfamiliar sounding track . Not having heard it before I thought it might've been some long lost tune unearthed from the archives. Then Paul Anthony says it's 'Get it on' by Kingdom Come, whoever they might be. I mean, the Plant style vocals, the Page style riffing and the Bonham type drumming are to a T! Anyone else too close for comfort they way they emulate such and such a band.

Didn't Gary Moore and someone else do a parody tune of the Zep parody bands?

My best mates a keyboard player. Fantastic.

He used to play Jump by Van halen with the keyboard behind his head. Mocking Rock guitar players 😄

Unfortunately he had to pack it all in as he contracted ME. Terrible shame. Could play anything.

In relation to 80's rock he reckoned 90% of the time all you have to do is hold down an E minor chord on a string sound 😄

Bloody hell, we already can't talk about religion and politics.  Now we can't say 'No [email protected]!'

I guess Stewart Lee was right, we are the Stasi for the Angry Birds generation!

😄

I'll try and check the WVH album out. You could clearly tell he was talented on the last VH album. 

I am a massive Roth era VH fanboy but I wouldn't want WVH album to sound like VH. It would be difficult for me it to anyway as EVH and DLR are one offs.

Do you mean one of these?

The closest I've had to a comment on tone was in Scotland. I was on tour in the band for a musical. I just DI'd as we played with cans and had our own personal mixers.

The sound guy at the venue was raving about the natural signal from my bass. I can't quite remember why now.

It was a passive 1996 Yamaha BBN5.

2 hours ago, ubit said:

Especially the other band members. They couldn't give a toss about the bass tone. I have found this out over the years. I was also the singer so relied on my mate (the guitarist) to step out front and give us a nod if everything was sounding ok. It was only when we had proper soundchecks and I could go out front too that I would say that sounds rotten and he would be like, it's ok. As long as his sound was good he was happy.

Classic guitar player.

25 minutes ago, mr zed said:

Or 3) you have a great bass tone....

Hahaha, of course!

I reckon at any gig, 99 times out of 100 the only person in the room who cares about the bass tone is the bass player. 

In all my years playing not once has anyone mentioned it to me. So that means one of two things.

1) no one cares.

2) I have a terrible bass tone.

It's probably closer to 2 as I don't care too much😄

I'm a tone de jour type

My 12 year old son is really into him. Thus guy and others has increased my son's interest in music so it can only be a good thing.

Deffo an act, supposed to be a really sound bloke. 

Taking a fretless to rehearsal tonight, so every track will be a fretless rock track tonight.

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

Had my second rehearsal with my Motown band the other day, (and the first rehearsal with my main band).

Got contacted today by the drummer of the Motown band saying that the others were talking (other singer and new guitarist) and didn't think my wife was a good fit for the way the want the band to go. My band. But that was ok wasn't it and didn't affect me? 

The direction being the singer and guitarist (who is on his third practice since my wife found him) being a blues group. So you join a motown band and say you want to go blues? The other singer isn't really any good at anything other than a very narrow group of blues songs but is a friend of the drummer.

Frankly I have had so much hassle with that group and the only reason I was sticking with it was because it gave me an oportunity to be in a group with my wife, like a shared activity. If they had said that before lockdown, where we hadn't spent all year practicing these songs to be ready to go when we got back together, and if they had said something when we were having a discussion about songs and directions, rather than telling the drummer to talk to us, I suspect the conversation wouldn't have needed to use the words spineless and c***ts, but as they say, it is what it is.

I could have kicked them all out of my group, but frankly it wasn't worth the effort. If they want to put the effort in to get another bass player I guess they will have to do it themselves. 

Still, would have gone down better if it hadn't been on our wedding anniversary.

Jesus Christ. Being in bands would be great if it wasn't for musicians.

That's pretty shitty. Better off without people like that. 

1 hour ago, MacDaddy said:

 

would you keep wearing your trousers if they were too tight?

Why accept what you have if you can change it to what you want? Most of my guitars have re-shaped necks, or upgraded pups, or chamforing.

Not my basses though 😜

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

Wagner can be wearing, à la longue. 

 

45 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Oh no, can go wagner all day, its pretty heavy, and with a full orchestra, there is no shortage of metal.

Not as Heavy as Stravinsky tho, That guy is messed up!