EBS_freak

11 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I've been meaning to update everyone on here on last weeks gig. I'm hoping it will be a bit of encouragement for those who are considering this journey or who are part way through. It's the first time we've managed to get the monitor mix perfect first time and throughout the gig for all the band members. Keeping this in perspective we've never had anything like so good a sound from floor monitors even on a professional stage. It's been a long journey in time because we've had changes in band members and a lot of gigs with deps but probably only half a dozen gigs with our permanent band members. Most of the deps are more comfortable with floor monitors.

 

First of all the experience as a band, set up was a doddle, fewer trips when loading/unloading. Really grateful for this as I was gigging with a broken foot. The digital mixer is such a boon as you don't need a line check, the meters show everything including identifying a broken Active DI creating a lot of electrical noise (I carry a spare). My own in-ears confirm the sound without a lot of 'one -two ing' the band all know how to mix their own in ear mix with their phones apart from the drummer who never remembers to log on to the network  "it's not working again Phil". Today we have someone mixing out front but honestly we've saved a successful mix so actually very little twiddling is ever needed. Sound check was a minute of one song and it all sounded good, well as good as we ever do. The gig goes like a dream, having that sound in your ears where everyone can hear just what they want is so liberating. Halfway through the first song you forget they are there. No struggling to hear what the guitar is doing because you have a nasty bass trap/resonance in the poky corner of the stage with the wooden floor and low ceiling, no feedback from the floor monitors. It's the tightest we've ever played. We are all watching the audience and the interaction is ramping up, guitarist is grabbing an extra few bars in the solos because the sound is right and it's a great night. The confidence you get from a great sound relays out to the audience, frankly the fears of feeling isolated with in-ears are forgotten. You don't realise how much extra concentration you need to compensate for not being able to hear properly. It's you ->music->audience->you and nothing in the way. It's actually relaxing when it works and I sang more than I ever have before with this band, I had a little 'more me' in my ears and was confident of pitching OK. Smiles from our singer so I knew she could hear me and was happy. Yeah, it was a good gig, added to by tech that worked.

 

So tech wise we are all in ears, ZS10 Pro for singer and guitarist, I use Sennheiser IE 100 Pro and I'm not sure what the drummer uses, Shure I think. Guitarist and I use Behringer P2's and singer my ancient Trantec wireless system. Drummer has her own mixer with a feed from the desk. Desk is an RCF M18 which is reliable and idiot proof. I've swapped out my ZS10's for the Sennheiser IE 100's because they have a flatter response and a more honest presentation especially across the mid range which helps a lot with vocals. They are a single driver unit but I've had no problem with bass or kick distortion and volume is absolutely fine they'll run way louder than I'd ever want or use. Speakers are RCF ART 745's

 

So that's it for me, all the promises of studio quality sound in my ears, freedom from poor room acoustics on stage and preserving what's left of my hearing have been achieved by the in ears and a convenient, easier set up by the digital mixer. Any fears of feeling isolated and cut off from the audience turns out to have been unfounded. I won't be going back. 

And another one. 👍

This actually really surprises me to read. Having had correspondence with him (I quizzed him quite hard when he came to market), he seemed to know what he was doing, especially when he came to the choice of BAs and tuning.

Share some pics.

4 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ok, change of plan. 

Anyone got any opinion on the Lugs S2? They are at the top end of my budget (well, over twice really) but could afford them if they are recommend. 

Im still thinking, ill probably get Mee Audio to make me custom tips for £150 if the costs start to mount up. 

So why not the reshell of your MEE audios via lugs? That’s where I’d be going with your budget - You like the sound, they work for you. Would be proven and still cheaper than the s2.

Dont do custom tips - I guarantee you’ll still want customs. Cut out that waste of money and go straight for the end game. It’ll be cheaper in the long run and put the biggest smile on your face.

22 hours ago, JPJ said:

Interesting one, went to see Bruce Springsteen at BST Hyde Park on Saturday night and he was not using IEM’s but relying on monitors both at his main stage and lower stage positions. Interestingly every instrument on stage was wireless including the horn section with the exception of drums and percussion. Given the number of instruments in the E Street Band that is an awful lot of wireless channels!

A lot of channels - but can make life a lot easier in a way. Ofcom co-ordinate frequencies for such events outside of the typical shared mic licenses that are typically used. I'd wager they are all patched via Dante - all devices get plugged into a pair of routers (for redundancy) via ethernet. Way, way easier than messing with a spaghetti of cables. Everything is digitally routed with an ID, so you don't have to worry so much about plugging into the right socket. Just turn on the rig, plug in the two ethernet cables from the wireless rack into the main pair or routers, plug in the two cables for the mixing desk... patched. 

Also worth mentioning that the higher end wireless systems can run in high density mode (lower power, typically gives you 30m coverage (which is more than enough to get from the wireless receivers on the stage wings) - but gives you circa 8 channels per 1 mhz). For comparison in a 606-623 shared mic environment where you can typically deploy 12 (standard) wireless units, you are now looking at 136 channels of high density wireless. Pretty cool stuff.

“Hi, I’m @Jon Liebman, welcome to funk bass”

4 minutes ago, Buddster said:

But I'd agree that the money they go for just because they're vintage (regardless of quality) is silly. 

Not really - it's the rarity aspect, the wanting of a birth year bass, a slice of history etc...

Going by your logic, nobody would buy or want vintage cars, or classic Ferraris (or other marques). Most modern cars can out perform the classics in every aspect... but these run of the mill modern cars will never have the same appeal or price tag of their classic cousins. 

In 20 years time, try selling the two and see the price difference.

Heritage counts for a lot.

19 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I saw that, and the same comments from another bass retailer. At the time these comments seemed irrelevant and rather unnecessary.

Musicman experience here. Bizarre that they became stockists. Probably just after Musicman fixed all the issues…

Its all part of the bass buying fun though.

12 hours ago, tauzero said:

They seem to have a minor numeracy issue, as there's a Yamaha TRB1006 in the 5-strings from £500 to £1000 section. I counted the strings in the photo just to be sure.

Just remove a string. Problem solved.

As above. IEMS.

Am I alone in thinking that Comply tips are a super case study where the branding has won out over the actual product? I never had any luck with them... and then tended to fall apart.

To be fair though, I never found anything that would stay in my ears - I don't know if thats because of the shape of my ears or not... but it was that that send me on my merry way down the customs route.

Spintfits were my favourite - but again, silicone - so if silicone not anybody's bag, probably a bit of a non starter.

Anyway, as you were.

49 minutes ago, la bam said:

 

He probably never even got it. PR team got in the way.

 

Nah, he doesn’t have PR.

I just sent him a message about it. Said he CBA to reply and doesn’t believe in the institution of marriage anyway.

😜

These folk do not owe you anything - and you shouldn't assume what pulls they may have on their time or reasoning for responding to, or not responding to your message.

I think if I was a celeb, I would be very wary of responding to anything. You never know who people really are... or what associations may be presumed from such interactions.

Nup. Had to come back.

With an EQ like that, I immediately thought we were being trolled by Fieldy. Anyway...

Whilst we are at it, let's talk about "quality" drivers. There's only real two main players in the manufacturing of balanced armatures, Knowles and Sonion. Given that the vast majority of the leading brands of IEMs make use of Knowles and Sonion, it would also be worth pointing out that the drivers that are found in many Chinese IEMs are Knowles - and you may be interested to learn that the exact Knowles drivers found in KZ IEMs are commonly found in their more expensive custom counterparts too.

Anyway, I'm just off to look at my mixer and try and understand what "20" is.

3 hours ago, joel406 said:

Your EQ is set wrong.

 

I use parametric EQ'ing. Much easier than trying to putz with a graphic. 

 

I set low at around 80/85hz. Level at about +10/11

 

Mids are hella scooped.

 

Low mids around 450 with gain at -12.

 

High mids set to 850/875 with gain at -12.

 

Highs at 8.5k with gain at +3/4.

 

Your Q line should be pretty contoured. Gradual rise up and down. Falling slightly below the mids and a gradual rise up to the highs.

 

The level from the desk cannot be too low. If you are turning levels up above 20 on the mixer, the level set to your bus is too low.

 

If your wireless is having dropouts. Try rescanning. If your using a "budget" or cheap POS wireless. Get a Shure PSM300 pro system. Any and every issue you "claim" to have, I have "never had". And I leave the stage and travel upwards of 100 to 150 feet from the stage. IEMs sound clear and sharp. Zero distortion. Also if you're using "budget" or crap IEMs, get some real ones. I've never tried KZ. Mine are custom fit. With "quality" drivers. I own 2 sets. One 5 driver a side (3 lows 1 mid 1 high) with crossovers. My main set is 8 driver a side (4 low 2 mid 2 high) of course crossovers.

 

You are doing it wrong.

JTUK, is that you?

In the interests of a balanced considered response, EQ by numbers mean nothing. You need to EQ with your ears, not by numbers.

The last paragraph is quite something. Do you just want to slam it out on the desk and get a ruler out too? 

Jeez. This escalated somewhat.

4 hours ago, petetexas said:

Thanks EBS_freak ,

 

Got through after 4 calls , raised my complaint ( parcel should have been picked up yesterday , paid for next day delivery - still in drop shop - looking into

 

giving me a refund ) and delivering tomorrow.......watch this space !

 

Pete

Glad you got a result

May be worth a go.

@stevie nice work!

Enjoy Dave! 

12 minutes ago, Buddster said:

Not 100% sure, but i think pre/post is just pre/post main fader. It should keep the processing. If FOH levels are changed, you'll want foldback set to pre so it doesn't effect the foldback. Sends to effects however are set to post so if the FOH levels are changed, so is the send level. Otherwise you'll just endup with the effect return and no dry signal. 

Depends upon the desk, but typically you can confiigure pre/post fader as well as pre/post DSP. Whatever DSP you apply to FoH will apply to your aux (unless you bypass the DSP). You can do a digital split if you have enough channels to apply different DSPs and effectively have a FoH channel and a monitor channel for each instrument (assuming you have enough channels on your mixer - or you could use two mixers - one for foh, one for monitors)

You've unearthed one of the problems of digital desks. More virtual knobs to turn. Just because it's there to use, doesn't mean you should, especially if you don't know how to use it effectively. Compression is the number one culprit. People have survived for years without going into compressors on analogue desks... yet, give somebody a compressor, with no idea what they are doing - and without using their ears, will slam compressors all over the place... because.... compression. And compression is good, right?

There's compromise, and compromise. Compromise due to stinky poo setting on a desk is not one that should be taken.

Tech rehearsal time... before you all fall out. 

Sounds like you haven't got a sound engineer that knows their onions!

And IEM should sound clearer than a cab as you are effectively taking a DI without any of the ambient fluff (assuming you aren't micing a cab) - I could understand if you were using some rubbish IEMs, but the KZ10s have bags of bass response and headroom (so there shouldn't be any distortion or farty bottom end)

Got knows what they are doing to cripple your sound that much.

Early compression is a bad idea on IEMs, as it impacts the way that people play and sing - singers especially as any make up gain really screws dynamics and singers tend to back off the mic.

I used to hate this song. Boring. Pants guitar. Yawn. etc...

Thing is, now I've got older and listen to it from a different pov, I've come to realise that it is in fact beautiful. It cropped up on my youtube feed again... I remember watching this for the first time on headphones (suggest you do to) and was blown away by not only the performance but the mastery in the engineering. This, and the Hell Freezes Over of Hotel California... just take me to my happy place.

So, any other songs that you hated but come to love?