elephantstone

Guys, my band are heading down to London on the weekend 4th March and are heading back up the road on the tuesday. we have gig booked the friday, saturday and monday nights. we are looking to get one in on the sunday also. anybody know of anygood venues/promoters that we could get intouch with? looking at central london/camden/soho etc Cheers ES

Hi guys. Shameless plug. My band are releasing our debut single on the 3rd of December. We are having a lauch party at The Voodoo Rooms in Edinburgh that same night. if anyone is in the area feel free to pop along and say Hi! Preview:[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s89X_nRLVcE"]SY:NC by Johnny and The Giros[/url] Cheers ES

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1017228' date='Nov 9 2010, 09:48 AM']It's amazing how much a click tightens up the band isn't it![/quote] absolutely!

well, we tried this in the studio last night, and after a fair amount of messing about with the synth and downloading the manual, we finally got the thing to work. it was absolutely perfect, made us sound so much tighter already. it is just a matter of rehearsing it to be ready for the single launch. cheers again guys

hey guys, thought i'd post a wee update on the situation. the guys loved the idea once i explained it to them wee went into town yesterday and got the situation sorted. we went into GG-digital in Glasgow and bought the alesis drum machine Dan suggested. ad the MIDI cables to go with it. so happy days, cheers for all the contributions. we havent tried it in the studio yet but hopefully we get it right ES

Pretty much all been said in here, we are a democracy of sorts. we are all involved in the writing process and decisions, however, if someone turns up with an idea that is almost 90% complete and has an idea in his head as to what the other instruments should do, then we will try it, if it works great if not we change it. if one of the band comes up to me and says "i have a great bassline idea for a song, why dont you try this?" if the idea is good i dont feel i need to change just because it wasnt my idea or that i never wrote. i would defo play and and maybe alter a wee bit just to my personal taste

this is an old video, infact we dont even play this song anymore but hey! heres another: sound quality is not the best on the second one. ES

[quote name='Bassman Sam' post='1012858' date='Nov 5 2010, 03:07 AM']I always find if a drummer drifts out of sync with a click track, a swift punch to the side of his head acts like a reset button. [/quote] hahahaha, might need to try that!

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1012748' date='Nov 4 2010, 11:36 PM']Come back to us with the system and equipment that you've chosen to use. I'd love to hear how you've run with it. Also, that MIDI book is £2.51 used and really is the standard text for people entering this realm. If you run with this (and believe me you can run far!) you can open up all sorts of new possibilities! Dan[/quote] Will do, we are heading into town tomorrow, so i will copy and email your breakdown to the rest of the guys, this really seems to me the best way forward. I'll post equipment and stuff prior to buying it just to make sure that it will all be compatible. Thanks to everyone who has contributed! it has made a confusing situation clear. ES

looks familiar! enjoy bud

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1012653' date='Nov 4 2010, 10:08 PM']This is exactly why you need to use a constant clock signal to play to. Otherwise there is no guarantee that the drummer isn't going to change tempo slightly during so that when the arpeggios come back in they'll be obviously out of sync with the current tempo of the song. What I would suggest is a drum machine (with MIDI) acting as your master clock. The only person who hears this is your drummer. You can program it either with a simple click on each quarter note and an accent on the first beat of the bar or something more rhythmically interesting depending on what your drummer feels most comfortable playing along to. The drum machine sends MIDI clock information to each of your synths - you may need to invest in a MIDI thru box to split the clock two ways, depending on what facilities each synth has for passing through MIDI data and how much delay this process adds. With your synths set to use the external clock for the arpeggio speed. Everyone in the band plays to the drummer as usual. However because the drummer is playing to the drum machine which is also supplying the MIDI clock information for the synths when your keyboard player hits the arpeggios because the timing information is coming from the drum machine via MIDI they will be in time with the drummer automatically. The only thing you have to watch then is how to keep in time when the drummer isn't playing - intros and breakdowns etc. The easiest way is for the drummer to provide stick clicks or similar at a level that can be heard by the musicians on stage, but isn't too obvious out in the audience. Most drum machines with MIDI capability allow you to program the tempo as part of the song - some will even allow tempo changes at a pattern level, so all you need to do is pick the correct song/pattern and your ready to go with the correct tempo all set up. Good luck![/quote] [quote name='DanOwens' post='1012691' date='Nov 4 2010, 10:42 PM'](Can you tell I'm a music teacher! )[/quote] Guys i cannot thank you enough!! this has been such a great help. i will pass this info on and let you know the feedback, personally i think the MIDI is the way to go. once again thanks, ES

Dan, I'm really intrigued by this midi clock idea. our synth player uses these: Roland SH-201 [url="http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=769&c=83"]http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productde...?p=769&c=83[/url] MicroKorg [url="http://www.korg.co.uk/products/pro_keyboard/microkorg/pk_microkorg.asp"]http://www.korg.co.uk/products/pro_keyboar...k_microkorg.asp[/url] if we were to use this MIDI clock idea, can you suggest any gear that would be compatible and reliable?? could you run over the process again so i can copy it and show it to the guys? that way we have a clear idea of what we need and why it is better than just feeding the synth to headphones. what would happen when the synth isnt playing and its for instance: a guitar breakdown, obviously the guitar is not going to keep perfect time with the drums and if the keys come back in they may be out of time with the guitar? Does this make any sense? edit: great youtube vid!!

nice one man, just didnt want to keep rambling on! i do have questions but i'll discuss it with the guys in the next hour and get back to you. i'll be back on later with some more focused and structured questions. Cheers mate. ES

Dan, your a legend cheers!! if its alright with you il send you a few pm's to pick your brain??

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1012274' date='Nov 4 2010, 04:37 PM']Unless the headphone output of the synth is very weedy you shouldn't need a headphone amp as well. Also the headphones make a big difference so if you need more volume try some more sensitive headphones. Has the drummer tried playing to a click/arpeggios yet? There are some drummers who just can't get it. I've played with a great drummer in the past who's timing when completely to pieces as soon as he had to play to a click and wasn't the one setting the tempo. Also why are you the one sorting this out and not the synth player (the person who should understand the technology) and the drummer who's the person who should be able to work out what is the most comfortable thing to play to?[/quote] that was the problem before, taking a feed directly form the synth, wasnt loud enough without altering the volume output of the actual synth. the drummer has played to a click/arpeggios and stuff when recording and whn jamming just him and the synth player but as soon as it is in a live situation and the rest of the band kick in then its not loud enough to hear. we are searching for a solution as a band, its not just left to me to sort, just thought i'd throw it out to the floor to see what the best suggestions are, cheers for the help much appreciated ES

[quote name='tauzero' post='1012232' date='Nov 4 2010, 04:07 PM']Small cheap mixer with headphone output? You should be able to turn that up somewhat.[/quote] good idea mate, i'll get that looked into. could be the solution. ES

[quote name='tauzero' post='1012200' date='Nov 4 2010, 03:48 PM']Just plug some headphones into the headphone output then. See if that's any good for the drummer. If not, you'll need a different approach, but (assuming someone's got some headphones) this experiment doesn't actually require any equipment to be purchased.[/quote] yeah man, we have tried this but it wasnt loud enough, so the synth volume had to be turned and therefore was too loud compared to the rest of the band, thus rendering the experient useless. Although, thats where my thoughts about the headfone amp came from: Synth headfone output>headfone amp>headfones???? that simple?? does the synth player having two synths affect this plan, or is it a case of just getting a feed from both synths into a headphone amp that can take 2 inputs and feeding it to the headfones? sorry for all the questions

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1012171' date='Nov 4 2010, 03:22 PM']I've been playing drums to a click recently. I have the click in my headphones and keep one ear off. The rest is just like a normal band practise.[/quote] yeah but: if in one song the arpegios are set to x bpm and in the next song they are set to y bpm, does the click chick automatically? cheers man ES

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1012135' date='Nov 4 2010, 02:55 PM']In my experience (and this is what my band do) the best way to do this properly is with a discontinued Yamaha Clickstation. It has a Midi In and so can sync to a Midi Clock. If your synth sends Clock, then great, otherwise, invest in a box that does (such as this SR16 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=107953"]HERE[/url]). That box can send Midi Clock to the drummer's metronome and to any synths in the band. My entire band are midi sync'd. Drummer's click (and delays on the electronic components of his kit), my tremolos, delays and filter sequences and our synth player's arps are all sync'd together, meaning we're so tight. It's needed for what we do, and for what you're trying to do. Dan[/quote] excellent man, not quite sure i understand though, MIDI clock??? so for being a dumbass but could you talk me through it?

Swapped my Thunderbird for his Hartke HA3000. Excellent communication, packed extremely well, prompt shipping. All in all a flawless deal. great guy to deal with, and wouldnt hesitate to deal again. Deal in confidence folks! ES

Cheers mate! ES

[quote name='tauzero' post='1011897' date='Nov 4 2010, 12:08 PM']No, not from the MIDI output, that will be outputting MIDI signals. Has the synth got a headphone output?[/quote] Yes it does have a headphone output. [quote name='BigRedX' post='1011994' date='Nov 4 2010, 01:08 PM']I take it that the timing for the arpeggios are being auto-generated from holding down full chords on the keyboard? Otherwise the keyboard player should just play in time with the drummer like everyone else. Also a point to bear in mind is that some drummers are simply incapable of not being the one setting the timing of the song. No matter what you give them to play to they simply can't do it because they are so used to being the one that everyone else in the band takes the time cues from.[/quote] Yes the arpeggios are auto-generated from holding down full chords on the keyboard. he is a very capable drummer, and can keep intime, but as you know some venues are not the best and the set up can vary from place to place and sometimes there will be no drum monitor etc etc etc. we want to keep it as simple as possible that we can turn up to a gig and set up quickly and not have to bother. right so, we can take a feed from the headphone output, run it into a headphone amp to amplify the signal and then into headphones??? we are planning on heading into town (Glasgow) on saturday to get an idea and buy what we need so any suggestions of gear and solutions are welcome. ES