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[quote name='alexclaber' post='583220' date='Aug 28 2009, 09:06 AM']I know that sound - that's what you get when you push a PLX so hard that it goes beyond what the limiter can control and actually clips properly. Kind of a SHRNARRRKKKK! sound - not pretty. With that kind of power there's no way you were reaching the Compact's limits.[/quote] That is exactly the sound I got, haha. Well described there! [quote]Ok, so the Compact is probably loud enough but needs more power. The woofer from the Big One could go in the Compact but there's very little difference in performance until you've got more than 400W to play with. The Double Midget has an edge because of its 4 ohm impedance. Or the woofer from the Big Baby into the Double Midget but that only shows an advantage if you have more than 700W. My inclination would be to go for the Double Midget with the standard drivers - that will beat your 1212L for voltage sensitivity and thus perform better right now, but if you can afford more power in the future then you'll gain substantial headroom. If you then wanted to make the rig smaller you could replace the top 1212L with a Midget (if you like the tone of the Double Midget for your fullrange/dirty sound), which would have plenty of power handling and sensitivity to deal with all your 300Hz+ demands. Alex[/quote] So basically what I'm getting from this is that I need more power from my power amp to really get the benefit of the more 'subby' cabs? Which is pretty much as I expected. I don't think it is worth me mucking around changing cabs until I have some more power basically. Which will be a while at the moment. I'd really like an amp with around 700W a side, but I can't afford one right now. So my question really is if power is no limit, what cab/driver would serve me best for the clean, loud, sub-350Hz signal, rather than going for compromises. If as you say, you can fit a woofer suited more for low end into a cab the size of the Compact, that sounds like it would be best? But correct me if I'm wrong!

I've owned/do own the VBC412 and two 1212Ls, and liked them both for different things. I liked the VBA400 head, but I felt it was a little bit too bassy a lot of the time for me. Saying that, I've heard some epic JJ Burnel style tones come out of it too. However, paired with a different head with a little more punch, it sounds great to my ears. Definitely deeper than the 1212L. Thankfully, I haven't been after a particularly deep sound recently so it is no bother to me I don't miss the size or weight of the Marshall! For me, that Schroeder is the perfect cab for most occasions, because of what I play and what tone I like. But it sounds like it might not be for you? Smaller and lighter cabs can go deep like the VBC412 though. I was quite impressed by the Barefaced Compact I've been mucking about with for the last week or so. I would want something bigger if it was to be my sole cab, but there are lots of options to look into

I think some extra power would probably do me some good - I've fired it up tonight and had a good old play round... I've been using a Schroeder on its own, two Schroeders in parallel, two Schroeders in series with different pres, and the same with a Schroeder and the Compact. My favourite sounding combination with all of them was having a Schroeder running full range with my Ampeg preamp and a few of the pedals I had lying around (Cream Pie, Catalinbread Hyperpak, Boss OC-2, EHX Stereo Memoery Man), but taking almost all of the bass out of the signal, and having a low pass filter sending everything below about 375 Hz to the Compact, through an Aguilar pre. I'm sure that's not the intended use of the cab, but for my setup, that's what I liked That got me some really beefy sounds. Especially loved the combination of the Hyperpak and OC-2 running at the same time as the Compact - some real old school Chris Wolstenholme sounds going on there. With the Cream Pie on, I had pretty much unbridled Glassjaw style aggression, with a massive low end backing it up. As expected, the mix of the two cabs sounds only comes alive when you're stood a few metres away. As the Schroeder was pushing basically no low end, it was massively loud compared to the Compact pushing nothing but the lows. I had the Compact going flat out as loud as I could go with it basically. I tested it hard tonight. It got to the point where it would make a very unpleasant brief sound if I played something particularly loud, so I backed off the amount of bass I was putting through it, and also the volume. I didn't want to repeat that - it has a long way to go! Basically, long story short, I got a blinding sound. Way cool. But I just need more of it. I was loud in the practice room on my own, but I know from experience it isn't loud enough to compete with my band at the highest volume I could push it to, and I do love my headroom. So basically I'll be handing it over to Sean.Robinson as soon as he's ready to pick it up. But it has left me with some food for thought. What do you suggest Alex? I'd happily swap out my second 'sub' Schroeder for the right solution from you, based on this little experiment. I know it is hard to get what I want in a small cab, but I'd be prepared to go a weeny bit larger (I do have some space issues forced upon me though). I also feel that with me only pushing 200W into the cab, I'm not really getting all that much from it. Would a poweramp upgrade make a lot of sense, or am I actually just pushing the limit of what I can achieve with the Compact in this rig setup? I fancy the look of the PLX2402, but they don't pop up often. Interested to hear what you think, and thanks for the opportunity to try it out/test it to destruction!

Well the Compact sounds like it would happily accept more power if I had more to give it, so I don't think giving it some more juice would hurt the situation! But I was standing anything from a foot away to the cab to 12+ feet away, as well as having feedback from people scattered around the room. It was raised, sitting on top of my other 1212L, so it was at a good height for being able to hear it. Can definitely 'feel' it more though. The clip lights would come on (not fully lit) if I played loud in louder sections of songs. I didn't like it doing that - I wound it down so it would only just start to make the clip light flutter when I played as hard as I could. I do play hard quite a lot though. In other news, tomorrow's gig has been cancelled, so I'm only going to have maybe another practice with it and a little more tinkering time just on my own with the cab before I pass it on now. Gutted

I'm just looking to exapnd my playing and work on some new techniques, as well as solidify what I'm doing already and iron out inconsistencies. Finding it hard to find someone who can teach what I want to do, or finding someone who will teach me something other than beginner bass/rockschool grades. I'm not that interested in improving my reading and theory at this point in time either. I play modern rock kind of stuff, would really love to be able to play more like the bassists in (but have nowhere near the skill yet!) bands like Sikth, Mudvayne etc. I don't have transport, so ideally looking for someone in Sheffield, rather than Donny/Rotherham etc

His own fault. If somebody asked you to wear 'any old crap', how many of us would actually decide wearing red tights would be a good idea in the first place?

First impressions having played through it... Only used it for a couple of hours at a practice. A bit of background on the band and the setting it would be used in - we are a heavy alt rock group (we've been called a lot of things, but that's what I'd say!), with one bass, one (8 string) guitar, drums and vocals. I go for a pretty aggressive, biting tone with a pick, heavy on the mids and initial attack of the notes to cut through. Our singer wasn't at practice today, so it was just the three of us instrumentally. Perfect testing ground for the cab then I'd say. We probably actually practice louder than we gig by the way, conversely o_O Ended up bridging my PLX1202 into it to squeeze the most I could out of the cab. So that's 700W into the 8 ohm cab. I immediately noticed having to crank my amp up a lot louder to match what the Schroeder was pushing out. It was engaging the red clip lights on the QSC, so I don't think I could really get it much louder with this setup. Although I would like a new power amp with slightly more power, I can't use this as an excuse to do so! I'm thinking this is because the 1212L is a 4 ohm cab, and the Compact is an 8, as well as that the Schroeder has a midrange bump right where you can really hear it. I could imagine a 4 ohm Compact being a formidable beast, and despite what Alex says about not needing it, I'd be more likely to splash out on one I think. The sound of the cab is I'd say quite even, but the focus to my ears seems to be in the low end. I don't have a bassy sound at all with my bass, but even with huge amounts of my bass being EQ'd out of the amp, it was still bassier than I was used to. Not necessarily a bad thing, just not what I'm used to. HOWEVER, it more than handles that low end. This has a huge amount of low end handling without farting out. HUGE. The drummer and guitarist commented on the bass having a lot of force and push in the low end today, and while I don't feel it cut through quite so effortlessly as I'm used to, it handled my octave pedal and the insane low end one of my delay effects makes (hard to explain) admirably. Far better than the Schroeders would. Handled all the effects I threw at it perfectly, though I haven't thrown the full weight of my pedalboard at it yet, just about 5 effects so far. So my initial response is pretty favourable! I plan to take the cab to a gig on Thursday, so we'll see how it does out on the road! My next plan is to try the cab out with my Tonehammer for a more typical bass sound, and also with a Low Pass Filter. I am going to test it out as the 'sub' unit for my rig using that. I use one clean cab, and one with all my effects through it. I am thinking that it isn't going to be the biting aggression monster that the Schroeder is - the Schroeder just inherently does that better I think due to its colouration. However, I think it could do the super clean low end with plenty of punch thing that the Schroeder doesn't handle so well. Whether it has the volume to keep up with the rest of my rig/band, that remains to be seen. Further more indepth tests are ahead though, so I will keep you all posted on my thoughts!

I used to be after lots of different tones, none of which really go together well. Then I discovered Glassjaw, and it has all gone out of the window. Lovebites and Razorlines by Glassjaw is tone central.

Arrived with me from casapete today. Sorry I wasn't in to meet you Pete! Not had a chance to use it yet, but my initial reactions are that it is a well finished cab. The rhino style covering is something I'm familiar with from my Schroeder, but I like it The grilll is also very sturdy - less bendy than my Schroeder. The weight is noticably lighter than my current 1212L, although it is both taller and wider by a couple of inches (laid sideways), and maybe an inch shallower. Looks nice though I do like the single speakon jack in the top corner on the back - spent a while looking in the centre of the back of the cab wondering where the input was XD The single strap is easily enough to carry it by, although I still think I would have preferred a two handle solution - maybe one on each side, or one on the side and one on the top. Carrying it through doorways and into cars of varying sizes means the one handle isn't always in the right place. Pretty much my experiences and feedback with it will be comparing it to my Schroeder, as that is what I have to hand and fresh in my memory I have a feeling a few people might appreciate the comparison though. Have a practice on Tuesday where I'll use it. Might also go to the practice room tomorrow to give it a proper indepth A/B on my own. Gig Thursday where I'll hopefully be using it too, and then I'll pass it on

I just laid out all my pedals in the new layout on my board. I've just about reached the limit of what I can fit in my Diago Tourman now. Will wire it up when I've got enough George L's and enough time! This will be a thing of beauty

My back will go, heavy gear or not. So make the most of the time now! Though to be fair, I used to have a Marshall head that was a two man lift - this rack can be lifted in one hand and carried short distances. And my heavy 412 was replaced with a 1212L. So I guess I have gone lighter anyway

I tried playing that fretless, but it is absolutely tiny, and my fretless playing is awful. I had a definite fail moment

I have made it heavier, as I sold on the Samson conditioner about 6 months ago and downsized to a compact 3u rack. But the weight is negligible to me. You carry it for 30 seconds to the car, and 30 seconds into the venue. Same with all gear. While I'm young and fit at least. Like people who complain about heavy basses. Man up ;p

The SVP-Pro is discontinued, but they tend to go for around £250-300 second hand. They pop up now and again. Might be one in the for sale section, I'm sure metaltime's one hasn't sold?

There's only certain things I'd want endorsements for. Until I can find an amp company whose amps do exactly what I want, as well as me liking their heads AND cabs, I wouldn't want an amp endorsement. Strings would be awesome. And plectrums. You know, the consumables that add up. I don't like being tied down. Now food and clothing endorsements? That would be nice.

Yea, it is an Introdelta one. You can find them on eBay and from their website if you stick Introdelta into Google. They do surge protected strips, strips with an on/off switch, and up to 6 (I think) plug sockets per strip. More options on there too. I can't remember the exact depth, but it was enough that when I put it into the back of my old 3u shallow Gator case, I didn't have room to get a lead from the power strip to my preamp anymore, hence my now bigger case. Less than 2 inches though, easily. For what it is, its a pretty weighty little device. Definitely heavier than sticking a plastic 4 way extension in with cable ties. I did have a Samson power conditioner before, but I prefer having the plugs to IEC sockets. I can plug anything like my pedals into it, or my bandmates can if they need to. That kind of thing. Just a bit more flexible. And I didn't really need that light that comes on it ;p Function over form!

4 way mounted into my rack. I can now power my power amp and preamp, as well as my pedalboard all from one plug socket. No more scrabbling around the venue for a 4 way because I forgot mine and the venue only anticipates the bass player needing one plug socket! Bit more expensive than using cable ties to fix a 4 way in, but I'm really happy with it

I use 3 fingers. Curling your fingers back into the hand doesn't really work well with 3 fingers.

I agree with everything you say - I don't mean to sound like all sound engineers are bad! Haha. There are some gigs I genuinely look forward to just because I know there will be someone excellent doing sound. But it sounds like you have been round the block in this sound malarkey. Not all sound engineers do try to recreate the amp's sound. Many don't even listen to it particularly. This is from my experience as a musician, and I feel it is valid experience. Also, that was an interesting point brought up with taking a little mini-mixer along. I don't know how practical it would be - I could set one up, but making things sound good into it isn't where my strong point would lie. That's why that step tends to be the job of the sound engineer I suppose?

Really want to try your fanned fret Shuker when it is done! I know I mention it every time anyone says anything to do with it, haha.

I'm just interested in what it sounds like out front! It is a perspective you never really get on your own band normally, isn't it? And with my rig, it just makes sense for me, if one channel needs to be significantly louder or quieter than the engineer has made it - he isn't going to know exactly how I have designed it to sound without having heard it before, even if I explain it to the best of my abilities! Maybe I'm misguided in thinking that a second pair of ears that know what to expect from the band might help?

I don't know, I guess I don't have the SIMPLEST rig in the world, but I do try and make it easy as possible. I use two amps - one of which I'm happy to use a DI from, and the other I'm happy to have mic'd (it runs all my distortions etc). But it isn't a bassy sound - the other amp has that covered. And we are a one guitar band. So I don't personally see the problem using the 57 that was being used for the every other band's second guitarist for it. I know its a bit of a muckabout mixing the two bass signals for FoH, but I do my best to help, and like MacDaddy, can go wireless and stand out front and put my two pennies in for the sound guy. I never do it in a condescending way or anything, and just try and help things go smoothly really. I know my tones, and I know what should work in the context of my band's overall sound! And I'm really of the opinion that it should be a collaborative effort, not a fight between the band and the soundguy. Not every band thinks this way, and not every soundguy does either. I completely agree about not turning up with enough sockets though. I need 4, and I've found it a real pain in the past. Can't believe I didn't get a 4 way for the back of my rack sooner!