Mikey D

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='97991' date='Dec 3 2007, 10:50 AM']I love the idea of going to college to study jazz on electric bass. I would have loved to do it twenty years ago and I would love to do it now. All that playing, practising and studying all day every day. Brilliant! Only I can't help but notice that some of the people I have taught/played with who have gone on to do this (Royal College/Leeds etc) are now gigging on the same scenes as me, playing the same venues for the same money and doing no more gigs than I am. Not sure what the point of it all was? Not sure what point I am making. Not sure whether this thing half way up my arm is my a**e or my elbow.[/quote] Your point cound be that, why go to a conservatoire when you can probably practice and play with a full time job and still be as good, and as you say do the same gigs. Which I tend to agree with, even though I am studying. I think a lot of students don't take full advantage of things when they are studying, because there is no reason why you can't be the biggest muthaf***a on your instrument, as you have the time to dedicate to it, the resources there every day and also a dedicated student body to play with, who if upon leaving go into the field will be your peers and call you for gigs. But more important than getting "good", I don't believe enough emphasis is put on learning how to market yourself or just generally the business side of making a living in music. Which with the jazz market as it is today, it's probably as important as being a good player. I've seen shocking jazz players make a decent living out of playing, because they know how to get gigs etc. It has been quite apparant that most jazz musicians, no matter how talented, don't have the knowledge of the industry, or the entrepeunerial skills when they leave college to make their own gigs, or get the higher paid gigs. Then it also comes down to the point of whether they are creating anything valid on their own which may get them picked up as an "artist" in their own right. There are not many I can think of that have left a jazz course who have gone on to much greater things in standard terms...Gwilym Simcock, the empirical guys from london (although they are still on a course) and of course polar bear/acoustic ladyland. Also it comes down to the fact that there probably aren't that many bigger gigs and they tend to get snapped up by the same people over and over again. This tends to be the case in most styles of music, whether it be pop or hiphop or jazz. Personally, when I leave I want to be f**king great on electric and do a pretty good job on upright, but I am fully aware already that no matter how good you are, it just isn't enough nowadays. It's to do with making contacts, getting out there and playing on the scene and getting noticed. Making your own CDs. Recording other people or producing cds for them. Putting on your own gigs. Anything...and thats if you want to actually do that. You might be happy having no audience, no fans and just create music for yourself in your room. As don't forget, music is art, not just the product/commodity that most people see it as nowadays.

[quote name='ARGH' post='97773' date='Dec 2 2007, 08:39 PM']From what I have seen,heard and learnt.... from past and present students and lecturers its a better place than a few years ago.[/quote] I would have to say that this applies to Birmingham aswell, maybe, the whole of the UK jazz education system is getting better!? But each year the standard seems to be getting higher overall. I think this has been helped by having an easier application process via Cukas on the web, thus more people are applying and of course, with the chance of the auditions panel seeing a lot more potential students they have more of a "higher standard" to chose from. I'm definately going to have to pop over to leeds sometime just to check out whats going on, I was wanting to organise a lesson with Zoltan in the new year anyway.

[quote name='ARGH' post='97520' date='Dec 2 2007, 10:23 AM']Go to Leeds,the guys/tutors from Germany and Norway have removed the "its not an upright" snobbishness,and embraced the 'free' jazz styles,plus they are opening up to performances that are REALLY cuttingedge. If you play Bass they love you there...play more than 4 strings and you have a red carpet.[/quote] I wonder if it is time for me to change!?

[quote name='dexter3d' post='97400' date='Dec 1 2007, 08:48 PM']Hello, I am thinking to study electric bass more in depth for the next year, or probably for 2 years. As I don't want (and I'm not able) to start a 4-year BA degree in conservatory (I already have quite some degrees in other fields), the various 'higher education' programmes seem attractive. I am thinking about any place in Europe (I'm Lithuanian myself). How about the Leeds College of Music Jazz diploma programme? Or LCCM (http://www.lccm.org.uk/)? Has anybody studied there? How are such places as Academy of Contemporary Music [url="http://www.acm.ac.uk/"]<a href="http://www.acm.ac.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.acm.ac.uk/[/url]</a>, Institute of Contemporary Music Performance (http://www.icmp.uk.com/) considered in UK? I am also considering DJAM school in Amsterdam (www.djam.nl/). I am interested mostly in jazz improvisation, I would like to study it seriously. Maybe there's something else to consider? Thanks for comments![/quote] I study on the Jazz BMus Hons at Birmingham conservatoire and my opinion on the course has been put on this site a few times. Bear in mind, wherever you study jazz electric bass, prepare yourself for the guaranteed snobbery towards the bass as not being an upright, but you will most definately find some people who don't care if it is electric or upright. You say you already have a degree so you can try any of the places that offer a diploma, Birmingham and Leeds do. If you come to birmingham you will study with Fred Thelonious Baker and Mark Hodgson on electric, you get 40 1-2-1s a year, as well as other lessons, which will include musicianship with Mike Williams (quite possibly the most talented musician I have come across and what he doesn't know about jazz and improvisation is minimal). Look on google for birmingham conservatoire and you will have all the info you need. Other than that, there is a very talented community of young jazz musicians and there are normally about 10 or so people on the diploma course at one time. I'm not saying here is the best as I have no experience with the other colleges etc, but as an electric bassist I encountered a lot of issues towards the instrument from others, but you have to just do what you want to do and hopefully when you find your voice it wll all pay off.. AJ5string on here also went to birmingham and can give his opinion. Leeds has Zoltan Dekany who I have heard many great things about and he was the dep of choice for Jeff Berlin when he was out in the US, so he can't be too bad! Where are you based at the moment? Are you taking jazz improvisation lessons already? I can send you a few things that we work on here to give you an idea of what to expect. If you are really serious about studying seriously, you could even consider taking just one to one lessons with a good teacher and playing as much as you can, it depends if the diploma itself will mean much to you or not. I also met a portugese bassist in Ireland last summer who went to Amsterdam, and if his playing was anything to go by, the standard must be pretty good, but he did also have lessons with Gary Willis so who knows! I'm not sure if they do anything equivalent to a diploma etc, but Gary Willis actually teaches at a conservatoire in spain, might be worth checking out!

Chad Wackerman it is then! I'm so looking forward to this, I think I am going to go on monday and wednesday.

It's a common Db or C# major pentatonic. Db(C#), Eb(D#), F, Ab(G#), Bb(A#) 1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 6

He was double jointed!

The worst I had was pieces of glass embedded in my foot, not sure how it works, but the pieces were bigger than the entrance holes!? This was friday night, sat in the emergancy room for 4 hours, so 2am comes along and the doctor says they have to operate on it the next evening...sorry no can do, I got a gig. The doctor understood, he was a fellow bassist! Couldn't give me pain killers though because I wouldn't stay in the hospital over nignt so had to hobble around and do the gig sitting down. The worst part was when the most attractive girl in there stood on my foot!! Needless to say, I was like "thats ok, it doesn't hurt that much!" Then wait until monday for the op...the show must go on. I don't think I've ever been physically sick on a gig though, well not without the aid of alcohol!

[quote name='Jase' post='92013' date='Nov 21 2007, 09:56 AM'][url="http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassm...etupmanual.html[/url][/quote] Probably the best article you will find on the subject. Gary's my boy!

Its worth keeping an eye on this on ebay... [url="http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZwaluser5"]Trace Elliot V-Type and seperate 4*10[/url] Haven't tried it personally, but heard good things. Think there are a few guys on here that can vouch for them. Also, I'm not fond of Mark Bass at all...

[quote name='Alun' post='89654' date='Nov 16 2007, 09:25 PM']I know what you mean - I don't know how I'll cope with a whole night of it, but I get to see ...and Chad Wackerman[/quote] Gary Husband is it not!?

Hopefully going to the wolverhampton one.

A tribute to the F***ing Man! I can't express how much I enjoying watching, listening, trying to understand how he does it all on double bass....here is a playlist I made of I think all of his vids on youtube. Please check him out. If you know about him already, have another watch...it'll be worth it. It would appear you can't embed playlists on here...so you'll have to take the effort to click this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9C7B462AFE2BE284"]Lots of NHOP[/url]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='88008' date='Nov 13 2007, 06:41 PM']Steve Swallow[/quote] Indeed. For me, NHOP/Ray Brown/Oscar Pettiford as it may have pushed me into learning upright properly when i was younger. I wish I got into someone like Dominique Dipiazza instead of Wooten.

It depends what your goal is. If you want to be a working bassist, or even play in a band. Chances are you won't play slap that much, if at all. If you are doing it for purely personal reasons and enjoy it fine, but learning slap should not be the be all end all. I spent far too much of my youth 'perfecting' the advanced slap techniques, and to be honest, it was a waste of time that I wish I could have back. Apart from a few mates who may be impressed, and having a few flash licks, I haven't really ever used it. I also haven't really played slap in about 1 1/2 years now, apart from a few pops and slaps here and there in a r&b/pop type function band I play in. I can think of 10's if not 100's of things you could be better of doing to improve your finger strength, reach, technique etc...bass playing in general. Tell us what you aspire to do with your playing and I am sure quite a few people on here can suggest a few things. Also I just want to say that tempo should not be an issue. Start as slow as you can bear and when you can do it correctly, play it a little faster, never speed up until it is secure when playing it slower, and before you know it you are doing it as fast as needed. But at the end of the day you need to do what makes you happy and keeps you passionate about your playing.

Ah, Tyrone finally got it on there...I have been waiting for this for a while. I was in sligo on the jazz workshop (which I highly recommend) learning with Dominque Dipiazza, but I found time to pick Rufus' brain when no one else was about...obivously, very knowledgable.

I love em! When I was working at Virgin Megstore as jazz specialist I used to crank that album out in the "specialist" music section...sold quite a few aswell.

[quote name='poptart' post='84048' date='Nov 5 2007, 04:20 PM']Just to let you guys know after the success of Music Live - I will be trying to organise some open day/nights soon in the Midlands area, for starters, to allow Basschatters the chance to try out all this gear again and, if you like, bring your own gear in to A-B it. Mark[/quote] I'm there...Birmingham would be ideal! I would love to try the W&T stuff and the Nordstrands.

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='85215' date='Nov 8 2007, 02:32 AM']Was just watching DVD of Dizzy G at Royal Festival Hall with Arturo Sandoval, James Moody, Flora Purim, Giovanni Hidalgo, Airto Moriera etc... John Lee absolutely smokes on electric bass guitar! Check it out! BTW, Arturo Sandoval can't be human to hit notes like that....[/quote] Ah actually, I need to add John Lee to that list...he is an excellent support player and soloist, and yes he defintely swings on electric. I first heard him on some Gillespie UN Orchestra recording and was pretty shocked as to why i had not heard of him before.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='84911' date='Nov 7 2007, 01:55 PM']Anybody else care to share any transcribing tips?[/quote] Be able to sing it first, even if it is just a bit at a time. Get transcribe or some that can slow the track down and personally i write the rhythm out first as I can do that no problem once i can sing it. The notes are the hard part! I just take i in phrases and try and play it. Once it is right I will write the notes into the rhythm. Of course sometimes, I don't write things down, then I just work on a phrase at a time playing it along with the recording. TOP TIP: Get ear training into your practice routine and transcibing (which is obviously part of it aswell...isn't it!?) will be much easier.

Same, just as bad as electric and unfortunately, I am even talking about a lot of people i study with aswell who are 18-23 who have this opinion. I'll learn 'em!

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='84994' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:42 PM']Hey Mikey D - you an' me both. I started playing jazz on electric (fretless) in 1986 and am still a great believer in its potential in the jazz genre. Whilst you can't beat a double bass for sounding like a double bass, a properly placed electric bass sound can easily make something swing. I guess the question is what kind of swing is it. Paul Chambers and Charles Mingus 'swing' differently so why can't Steve Swallow (who is THE swingingest bass player ever to plug in) and Anthony Jackson? I think its all about where your bass sound sits in in the sonic spectrum and how it interacts with other instruments (primarily the drummers ride cymbal). I think it is important to work with your instrument AND your amp to make the sound work (I use a Wal Custom Fretless and an Eden Metro combo - I know the Gallien Kruger combo is popular for jazz but, for me, it doesn't fill the right sonic space to make the music swing. Most people use it because it doesn't weigh much not because it sounds right). The truth is if a musician wants to book a double bass player to fulfil his musical vision, s/he should do so. If, however, s/he prefers a double bass player who can't swing to an electric bass player who can, then it is for appearances only, s/he is an idiot and I don't really want to play with him anyway.[/quote] Since 1986? You obviously haven't let the man keep you down! I'm personally finding it hard with the negative attitude to the electric (even nowadays), but saying that I am lucky enough to have quite a few people who are open minded and do have the attitude "if it swings, it swings". I'm not a fan of the Gks either. Unfortunately, your last sentance just about sums it up! I swear most people would rather have upright instead of electric in a jazz combo/ensemble for the reasons you and I have stated.