Bankai

Mine has KT88s instead of 6550s. Worth considering 

On 10/07/2020 at 18:56, Pow_22 said:

So, as of an hour ago, i joined this group 👌

Well well well, you pulled the trigger in the end. Now what may I enquire is the rationale for having two of them! 

On 02/07/2020 at 10:30, andy67 said:

Spoke too soon. Turned on earlier, nothing but a buzz.

Reading this makes me clutch my 1997 USA made pro much harder

Personally I’d take to Reverb.com and look at places on there who will deliver to Bulgaria (there will be an option to only display listings where delivery to Bulgaria is an option) and select something second hand so you get more for your money. 
 

Narrow down your search to bass cabs and flick through and see what there is in the 4x10 / 6x10 world.

In the Sue Ryder madness that overtook this forum a few years ago, I picked up one of their Telecasters alongside the bass. If you find one on eBay or somewhere, they’re good enough. Not going to beat a fender but fine at Squier standard.

7 hours ago, Salt on your Bass? said:

I wouldnt be dictated by the DI - I use a Matamp GT200 which has a jack DI out, but I typically use a palmer PDI09 passive DI box (about £75) which then goes post power stage. Really simple and practical bit of kit and sound guys normally enjoy I have my own DI. 

I've also recently picked up a Torpedo CABM which provides cab and mic sim, and can sit in the same slot as my palmer - just it's powered. I use mainly for home messing around. 

...so I'd go with the amp you desire, whether orange or ampeg or ashdown, you probably wont go wrong (I'd strongly recommend Matamp though  )

 

How do you find the pdi09 on bass? It has a built in cab sim for electric guitar that can’t be switched off so I would have expected it to produce funky results with bass

9 hours ago, danbanbass said:

I liked the Svt Classic sound but after all that I had a Marshall VBA 400 for years, despite being it heavy that thing was bullet-proof.

And there’s one of those going for cheap on here at the mo!

7 hours ago, danbanbass said:

I like the look of the Orange AD200B but the lack of D.I puts me off, what other offerings are there?

I have the AD200B. Orange’s recommendation if you need a DI is to use the slave output on the back of the head in conjunction with an external DI.

I’d recommend the Orchid Electronics Micro, attached by a short patch lead, and velcroed to the back of the head or cab.
 

Alternatively, consider a cab-sim DI like the Radial JDX 48 which can be inserted between the head and cab to get an even more ‘full’ sound. 

On 04/05/2020 at 20:07, TPJ said:

Here is a page from a Helix whiz. He's created some 810 sims with parametric eq blocks on the Helix. You may be able to use the settings and see what you come up with if you have similar eq devices.

http://drtonelab.com/lab/8x10/

Perfect

2 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You have to be careful using raw driver curves. They are measured with the driver mounted in a wall, so they're only accurate above where an enclosure affects the result, roughly 150Hz. A sealed cab doesn't add much, if anything, in the lows, but a ported cab will make the lows very different.

I’m going to snoop around the helix and kemper groups and see what I can find as it may be someone has already done the leg work but failing that I’m going to SMAART it with a measurement microphone so I get the whole truth and nothing but the truth

But thanks for the link, as it’ll be a helpful start point

15 minutes ago, la bam said:

Regardless of whether its head only, head and eq cab sim, or micd up from cab, you will still eq from there to suit the room etc.

Correct. Personally, I use SMAART to achieve that aim and then apply the result via a graphic at the end of the process.

15 minutes ago, la bam said:

The amp head may be pre or post, so if its pre you'll not be getting the same as stage sound anyway.

I'm a bassist as well as a sound engineer, so have no fear. The two backline heads I have here are an Ampeg SVT-II Pro (which has an in-built switchable DI and is used on post-EQ) and an Orange AD200B (which doesn't have it's own DI, so the 'slave output' connection is used with a high quality DI box).

15 minutes ago, la bam said:

You would be better with some generic bass guitar typical eq settings and take from there.

I don't see how picking some generic EQ could produce a better result than an exact EQ replication of a cab, thus a defacto cab-sim. Could you go into a bit more detail on this one and help me understand what you mean?

15 minutes ago, la bam said:

In my experience the sealed 8x10 does sound amazing with a band - somehow makes everything for together well - but also makes the bass duller if that helps.

In the case of the Ampeg unit, it rolls off at about 6kHz so compared to a lot of the more modern 12" based units that are increasingly commonplace it certainly is as you say. Still, using the impulse curve as a starting point, I can then tailor something to give the required presence. 

15 minutes ago, la bam said:

If your still determined for an 8x10 sim via eq - people in the helix groups will have done that, but it may be using more than one eq effect and even more than one type of effect, not just eq.

I hadn't thought of that, but shall start taking a look over there as that's a very good suggestion. I might see if I can find a nice 2x12" replication too, so there's something a bit more FRFR in my arsenal too for if someone has a similiar cab they bring to a gig. Thanks

1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

What is it specifically about the scenario which means it must done using only desk EQ, and that you can't use a BDDI pedal?

First of all, money. It’d be £200 for a Sansamp BDDI.

Secondly, in this scenario I am not the player, I am the sound engineer. So I need a solution that is simple for the player(s). Not all bassists (or any musician) are created equal. With quick turnarounds, novice musicians, and many things to manage at once, I don’t wish to have an expensive little box on stage that can go walkies, or have its settings changed and mess things up. 

I dislike DIing a bass straight. It means you get none of the flavour of the amp head, the gain structure, the EQ, etc. All things which make a considerable contribution to our tone when we play. 

I dislike mic’ing a bass cab. They can get knocked, are an additional expense, and generally don’t capture ‘the full picture’. The mic adds as much colour as the cab does, unless you’re using a very neutral LDC or similiar, which is generally not viable in a small venue. 
 

I am aware it is quite commonplace generally to do take a dry DI and mix it with a cab mic, and have done this previously but find it introduces too many variables and still doesn’t really give a ‘gold standard’ end result.
 

The solution I am left with, is using a good quality DI from the head that is being used, so I get the ‘full flavour’. I’m lucky enough to be using a Midas M32R so I can do a lot to the signal once it arrives at the desk, and one of those is replicate the EQ curve inherent in an Ampeg SVT810E (the backline cab), and thus I now have ‘the perfect DI’. Perfect, as I have an exact(ish) replica of the sound on stage, and it requires no additional input from the musician on stage beyond setting up their amp as they would normally, there’s nothing to get knocked, or buttons to get played with by mistake, and it’s easy to manage when you have multiple acts on a night. Plus, the audial end result is (in theory) going to be superior to the other solutions.
 

Coming back to the point I made before; not all bassists are created equal. That goes both ways, in that this is my way of acquiring a good sound from those who are using backline or maybe their own lower end kit, or those who maybe aren’t as experienced and don’t really know how to deal with a Sansamp being put in front of them. And it’ll produce a far better sound than any of the other options. However, when a band is playing who has a bassist who knows what they’re doing with kit (chances are, one of you lot!) they’ll probably have their own Sansamp (or equivalent) and know how to use it. Or potentially, some well thought out rack unit accompanied by a FRFR cab for monitoring. And when that happens, it’s even better as I’ll take what they can give me from that and do even better with it.

The aim is to produce a consistent and good quality FoH bass sound, no matter the rig or the player. 
 

As I’ve got the 8x10 and not much to do at the moment, I think I might use SMAART and try and produce an exact impulse curve. I asked the question here as I was hoping someone might already have done it to save me the trouble!
 

I appreciate the sound of an 8x10 may not be the desirable tone for a lot of players, but the purpose of this EQ curve is for when someone IS using the provided 8x10, so that when they EQ the head to make the stage sound how they want, it has the same effect out front rather than producing an FoH sound that is different/sub-par.

13 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Response of a Fridge will be reasonably close to the chart for the Eminence B810.

https://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Legend_B810

The only significant difference is that in a sealed cab there will be a response hump centered around 110Hz.

 

 

Beautiful, I’ll use that as a starting point.

For those curious, this is the graph on the link:

5 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Mic the cab.

Thanks but not the solution I’m after.

6 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Answer: sansamp bddi. 😉

Not an answer.

Scenario:

I DI an amp head live to run it to the FoH PA. This takes the sound of the head, but the head’s gain and EQ have been set for the cab and thus the DI signal doesn’t sound quite right through FoH, as the sound that comes from the PA is not same as the sound that comes from the 8x10 the amp is connected to. This is due to the PA being FRFR (or close to), and the 8x10 being highly colourised.

Question:

What EQ should be applied to the DI signal when it arrives at the FoH desk to tailor it and make it sound similiar to how it does coming out of the 8x10?
 

So far, I’ve started with rolling off anything below about 30Hz and anything above 6.5KHz, but an 8x10 definitely isn’t linear between those frequencies. I was hoping maybe someone had previously done a plot/graph to show where one would need to cut/boost in order to ‘cab sim’ an 8x10. Specifically in this case, an Ampeg SVT810E.

I am aware there are other avenues which achieve varying degrees of success, such as using a specific cab sim DI, or using a clean DI of the bass before it arrives at the amp, or selecting ‘pre-EQ’ on the amp head DI (if fitted). However, they won’t achieve what I’m after so for this scenario please pretend those options don’t exist!

Peavey have just brought out a new guitar head which for the first time features a built-in isolated power out for powering various effects pedals. It’s a feature that has been very well received so we may see it crop up on other peavey models in future.

On 12/04/2020 at 16:06, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The OBC 212 by all reports sounds good, and it's small. However, the downside to the isobaric configuration is that it has the same output as one twelve in a standard ported cab. It also weighs a lot more than most 112s

4 hours ago, Slick Bass said:

Same question for son with 15th Birthday approaching in a few weeks, hoping after shutdown.  Found this thread looking for info.

Bedroom size 2m * 3m with reductions for roof and staircase (poor lad, it really is a box room)

Current amp - s/hand Fender Frontman w Reverb 38W, but it does sound tinny in fairness. He plays a Maverick F1 and he mostly plays metal / rock.

Son’s idea - Marshall DSL20HR Head ..... with Cab unit to follow with any other Birthday money and paid work he can do to fund, like 4 * 12 ... or something!?!?!

Our budget £250!
My thoughts;

1) I already had to move his desk out to get a double guitar stand in (he didn’t use the desk anyway)

2) I’ve turned into my Dad ... boring!

3) But seriously, would you actually be able use enough volume to drive a head/cab set up like that without blowing the window out / blowing the neighbours out?

4) I thought one of the following might be pretty cool.

Fender Mustang GT40

Blackstar ID Core Beam

Roland Cube Street

Marshall MG50GFX

Any thoughts welcome, even if it is to remind me how much I’d have liked a speaker wall at 15 🙃

 

Yes, I wouldn't entertain the idea of a 4x12 for a child! To keep it budget safe, I would go second hand and suggest the Blackstar range given his chosen genre, and look at one of their small low power head. I wouldn't get a combo because that'll be limiting down the line. Instead by doing head/cab, as and when the time comes in future he/you can upgrade one of the components individually rather than being 'locked' into a package. Combos are generally open back too, which means you won't get much heft off of the sound and it'll sound thin.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackstar-HT5-Guitar-Tube-Amplifier-Head/274293917735?hash=item3fdd310827:g:-V0AAOSwp6ReXZSf

The Blackstar HT5 for example. 5 valve watts which through a decent 2x12 (or larger) will be enough for any rehearsing or any small gigs. Plus, as it's only 5 watts you can properly work the amp rather than having to run it on 1! Also has emulated headphone out for late night bedroom playing, and an emulated DI with cab sim should he find himself at a larger gig which the head can't handle on it's own. It's small enough he can put it in a rucksack and take it with him somewhere to a gig/rehearsal room/etc and plug into their cab if needed. There is the HT20 if you feel you want to go 1 more rung up the ladder.

For a cab to go with the HT5, I would recommend a Harley Benton G212 Vintage. They are super cheap whether you get them new or second hand, considering their sound. They get rave reviews. I know a lot of local bands using them and have heard one in person and couldn't really fault it. Make sure to get the Vintage variant as it's loaded with Celestion V30s which are the definitive rock guitar speaker and a massive improvement over the standard driver. Run it vertically rather than horizontally and you'll have a rig that doesn't take up much floor space at all.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harley-Benton-G212-Vintage-Guitar-Cab/193418857997?hash=item2d08a98e0d:g:~Y8AAOSwYodekY7B

Second hand, that's £250.

On the wattage front, I worked as a guitar tech on a tour with the darkness a few years ago. In O2 Academy venues, with all the proper monitoring and PA, their Vox AC30 2x12 was so loud they had to have it facing the rear of stage in order to produce an acceptable level for the stage and audience. So, when it's valve watts you talk about, 5 can definitely do what most people need!

This was always a big one for me. Without him changing any effects or settings, I loved the dynamic range that came out of his set-up and it introduced serious Thumb GAS in me for a while. The chorus, verse, bridge, outro, they all have a distinct feel and sound. Mostly down to technique but Warwick does contribute significantly to the tone!

3 hours ago, Oopsdabassist said:

I bought this dvd when it came out, and when I heard Jonathan Noyce's tone, highlighted nicely here, I knew I'd found what I wanted, so full, with a touch of grit.  Of course, reproducing it without carting round an effing great Ampeg stack....not quite so easy......

 

an excellent choice! I always loved this live version.

My SVT810E, now accompanied by a well used AD200B..

On 01/04/2020 at 18:03, dmccombe7 said:

Just had a quick lok first 10 pages and some really nice basses in there and some great prices albiet postage is gonna be a bit more expensive but still some nice gear i haven't seen before. Blue sunburst Rik bass was stunning.

Dave

Yes, that Blue Ric almost almost got me but I managed to escape with my wallet.

On the topic of the active-passive discussion. I’ve found that when using a decent tube amp that using passive on the Sandberg seems to produce better results, but if using a simple DI or poor amp (i.e rehearsal room or venue backline) then active is best.

Could it be placebo or has anyone else found similiar?

The Beyerdynamic DT250 is the FRFR of headphones.