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Major-Minor

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Everything posted by Major-Minor

  1. [quote name='Zach' post='824469' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:19 PM']Cheers for taking the time to respond, was hugely helpful, and the most thorough and coherent explanations i've read about time sigs. now just 17 more boot camp sessions to take in![/quote] How good are your reading skills ? If you still have to look carefully at each note and rhythm before playing them, you might find it helpful to go straight to Session 20 where I have started a new series called "Getting Started with Music Reading". Each Session is in just one key and starts nice and easy to get you going. I've provided "play-along tracks" with each phrase repeated, to try to get those notes and rhythms firmly implanted in your brain. I'm going to move fairly slowly - gradually introducing more info as we go. There are 3 Sessions so far. I'm currently preparing the 4th - in Bb major. Do join me on this journey if you can. You won't regret it ! The Major
  2. [quote name='Zach' post='823717' date='Apr 30 2010, 09:30 AM']yeah i think that makes sense. am i right in thinking that the main difference between x/8 and x/4 is where you are meant to accent notes?[/quote] Perhaps my explanation wasn't very clear ! It's quite hard to get the wording right - bear with me - I'll try again: Back in Medieval times when the writing down of music was first developed, the stave was 11 lines or more, with the notes (numes they were originally called) spaced to show the passage of time ie no bar lines were used. But this, it was realised, was tricky to read. So the bar line was invented to break up the notes into smaller packages thereby making it easily readable. Nowadays, the 4 beat bar is the most commonly used time grouping. So, tap your foot to some imaginary track, ideally a middle of the road pop or rock track. (In my head, I'm going to think of Billie Jean by Michael Jackson for no particular reason other than it's in a straight 4/4). So you are tapping the crotchet beats (the quarters as they would say in the USA). Lets group them in 4 to a bar: So count at a nice steady tempo: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 etc Now say "and" between each beat: 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and (etc ) Now you are creating 8 sounds per bar - 8 quavers (eighths or 8ths) per bar. In theory you COULD call this 8/8, but that seems unnecessary as it's easier to stick to just 4 main beats, each of which is divisible by 2. Now try this: Say: 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a (where each sound is equal in length) You have now created a compound (triplet) rhythm - where each main crotchet beat is divisible by 3. So beat one has 3 components: 1 and a So when you write this down as notes you will have 4 groups of 3 quavers ie 12 sounds in total (in each bar) This would be called 12/8 12 quavers (8ths) in each bar 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 We can't call this anything else but 12/8 What we COULD do is split the bar two, creating two 6/8 bars: 123 456 123 456 OR we could divide this again and get four 3/8 bars: 123 123 123 123 But WHY would we want to write these alternative time sigs ? Well there are several reasons: It's become normal to feel the "1" beat as the strongest beat in any type of bar, not necessarily accented, but with a little more weight than the rest of the bar. Just say out loud (as if you were counting the band in over and over again) 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 Do you notice that you tend to put more emphasis on that "1" each time ? So if you (the composer) wanted the players to put that emphasis on the first of each 3 quavers (in my example) you would call it 3/8 and write it accordingly. 123 123 123 123 Another reason is to do with making it easier to read: The bar lines are our "friends" when we read music at speed. They help to group the notes together in a way the eye can easily work out what is going on. The other reason is more cynical ! When composers (and arrangers) are commissioned to write a piece, they often agree a fee per bar of music. So if you can write 400 bars of 3/8 rather than 100 bars of 12/8, clearly you are going to earn more money ! All music rhythm is basically a combination of 2s and 3s, as i hope I have shown above. So 5/8, for instance, is really 3 + 2 (or 2+3) Say out loud 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 Now do the same and put a little emphasis on the 1s and the 4s Now do the same but put the emphasis on the 1s and the 3s So here you have the two ways of thinking of a 5/8 bar. Try this more complicated rhythmic structure: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (10/8) Try as many combinations as you can of 2s and 3s within the 10 quaver notes: Here's my favourite: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (3 / 2 / 2 /3 ) Now taking this 10/8 example, let's look at it more carefully: 10/8 is 10 quavers (as we've seen), so we could pair them up and create 5 crotchet beats (2 quavers per beat). This would be called 5/4 (5 crotchet beats in each bar - remember: the 4 refers to the type of basic note - in this case, the crotchet) Have a listen to "Living In the Past" by Jethro Tull. This is in 5/4. Or "Mars" from "The Planets" by Holst. This is slighty more complex as he writes it in 5/4 but divides the first beat of each bar into 3 triplet quavers. Similarly, "Take Five" by Dave Brubeck is always written as being in 5/4, but actually, as it has a swing feel (where each beat is divisible by 3) you could argue that really it is in 15/8 !! Hope this helps ! The Major
  3. What kind of rosin are you using ? Maybe you need one of the sticky ones like Kolstein or Nymans. And the type of strings you use will make a big difference. The Pirastro "Evah Pirazzi" mediums are my current choice. Great for both arco and jazz. I recently put these on both my basses and I can't believe how good (and how loud) they are ! I wish these had been available 40 years ago when I first started as a pro player. The Major
  4. [quote name='Zach' post='823043' date='Apr 29 2010, 02:15 PM']that really helped me make sense of time sigs, cheers. one question though, what about if the number on the bottom isn't an 8? i've yet to understand the difference between 6/4 and 6/8.[/quote] Hi Zach The bottom number refers to the type of note ie whether its a quaver (eighth) or a crotchet (quarter) or a minim (half) or a semiquaver (16ths). So 6/8 means 6 quavers (eighths) in a bar. 6/4 means 6 crotchets ( quarters) in a bar. 7/8 means 7 quavers in a bar 3/16 would be 3 semiquavers in a bar. It can all be very confusing, i know, but actually its very simple once you realise that its all about communicating ideas from the composer to the player. You might say: Well why write something in 6/4 ? Isn't that just 2 lots of 3/4 ? Well yes and no !! I don't think I've ever seen 6/4 in a pop or jazz type chart, but it's common in the classical world. If a piece is in 3/4, the composer expects you to give the first beat of every bar the same weight - think of a Waltz for instance. 6/4 of course is 2 lots of 3 beats (although confusingly it can be 3 lots of 2 beats !!) where the weight is laid on the first of the 6 beats. THE most common time sig is 4/4. That's why it's called "common time". So that's 4 crotchets (4) in a bar. If each of those main beats is divisible by 3, we get a "compound" time sig of 12/8 (12 quavers in a bar). This is another common time sig in rock and pop, but (confusingly) it's often written as 4/4 with triplet quavers written only where required. This is a sort of short hand way of writing a "shuffle" of "swing" chart. I've covered this in Boot Camp Sessions 2 and 2A. Is this helping ? Let me know if it's still unclear. The Major
  5. The Major's Bass Boot Camp - Session 22 Getting Started with Music Reading - in G Major For the time being, we will stick with basic rhythms. All 5 exercises are in 4/4 and only use quavers, crotchets, minims, semibreves and dotted crotchets and minims. In future sessions we will tackle semiquavers, dotted quavers, triplets, rests, compound time sigs etc etc, but for now lets keep it simple. So, G major has one sharp - which is F#. As you will see, the key signature at the start of each line has a # sign written around the second line down. The note on this line is normally an F, but the # sign converts it into an F#. This applies to all octaves. All these pieces are playable in the second position (BG). MBBC22a [attachment=48435:MBBC22a.pdf] [attachment=48440:MBBC22a.mp3] As with previous Sessions, we will stick with the "play-along" routine, in 4 bar phrases, each repeated. MBBC22b [attachment=48436:MBBC22b.pdf] [attachment=48441:MBBC22b.mp3] A little slower. MBBC22c [attachment=48437:MBBC22c.pdf] [attachment=48442:MBBC22c.mp3] An up tempo Latin feel to this one. MBBC22d [attachment=48438:MBBC22d.pdf] [attachment=48443:MBBC22d.mp3] A bit more up tempo. MBBC22e [attachment=48439:MBBC22e.pdf] [attachment=48444:MBBC22e.mp3] The Major
  6. You could try following my "Getting started with Music Reading" series on the Boot Camp, which is pinned at the top of the "Theory and Technique" forum. It's as relevant to DB as BG and I'm keeping things fairly simple to begin with. So far there are 2 sessions - Numbers 20 and 21 - with Session 22 on the way. The Major
  7. Peter Smith is a top orchestral freelance bass player currently living in Northampton. I know he does some teaching in the area, also coaches the County Youth orch. PM me if you want his phone number. The Major
  8. [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='814709' date='Apr 22 2010, 10:02 AM']This stuff is so useful that you should seriously consider starting a dedicated website so that it is all organised more sensibly. Finding the posts is a bit of a challenge in itself at the moment.[/quote] All the Boot Camp Sessions can be found through the index which Rich has pinned at the top of Theory and Technique. Sessions 1 to 19 are not graded ie I have dipped in and out at various levels of difficulty in the hope of attracting interest from a wide spectrum of basschatters. From Session 20 onwards, I have started at basic reading level, and will increase the demands on new readers as the series develops. The Major
  9. [quote name='Bilbo' post='808748' date='Apr 16 2010, 06:24 PM']I have just gone through this and need to say that I wish this was around when I was learning. The Major's charts and play-a-longs are a fantastic resource for anyone who is trying to get started but who hasn't got a teacher (or can't afford one). There is enough material here to get anyone started and to keep them entertained for a good few weeks. I was caught out a couple of times on the last pdf (my turn to feel foolish, Pete). Quality material. There is no excuse for not being able to read at least at a functional level. As Marcus Miller said 'why wouldn't you'?[/quote] Thanks for the kind words Bilbo ! The Major
  10. The Major's Bass Boot Camp - Session 21 Getting Started with Music Reading - in F Major As with Session 20, everything is playable in the first position and all 5 exercises start with a bar of drums. Play along with me for the first of each 4 bar phrases, then you are on your own for the repeats (although you have the guitar, piano and organ playing in octaves with you). The pieces all end with a 2 bar phrase repeated. This session introduces you to 2 new reading concepts: 1. Reading with a KEY SIGNATURE. Session 20 was all in C Major, therefore there were no sharps or flats. This Session (21) is all in the key of F Major which has one flat - Bb. So at the beginning of each line you will see a flat sign written around the second line up on the note B, transforming this note into a Bb. This applies to all octaves. Nearly all standard written music will have the key sig written at the start of EVERY line. However, in the days of the Dance Band and the Jazz Era, so many arrangements was being churned out (all hand written, of course) that every possible abbreviation that the copyists could think of was being employed, including using only a single key sig at the start of the piece and at key change points. So you may well come across this method, particularly if you play in a Big Band. With today's computer generated scores, it's usual to see the key sig on every line. 2. The "DOTTED" note. Going back to the days before the printing press revolutionised the publication of music, overworked copyists developed the "dotted" note - a dot placed AFTER the note, lengthening it by half as much again. (This should not be confused with a dot ON or UNDER the note which is an articulation direction - meaning the note is short or staccato.) In the first example (MBBC21a), I've tried to make this point clear from bar 25 onwards. MBBC21a [attachment=47895:MBBC21a.pdf] [attachment=47900:MBBC21a.mp3] From bar 17, you will see that there are 2 quavers on the 2nd and 4th beats. Now look at the 1st two beats of bar 25: Here you can see I have TIED the first crotchet and first quaver together, creating a single note which is 1.5 beats long, followed by the other quaver which starts half way through beat 2. You will sometimes see this rhythm written like this, but its far more common to see it written as in bar 27. Here a dot AFTER the crotchet signifies the extra 50%. You can see why this was an easier way to copy this rhythm on to the manuscript. Rather than writing the note, the stem and the tie, all the copyist had to do was write a dot. Notice how the single quavers are written: It's as if the BEAM over 2 quavers has been allowed to fall to the side of the single quaver. MBBC21b [attachment=47896:MBBC21b.pdf] [attachment=47901:MBBC21b.mp3] In bar 42, there is the first of several "dotted minims". As with the dotted crotchet, this simply means that the minim is extended by 50%, so it equals 3 crotchet beats rather than 2. As it starts on beat 2 in this example, I've written the beats underneath, so we get a note that lasts from the start of beat 2 to the end of beat 4. MBBC21c [attachment=47897:MBBC21c.pdf] [attachment=47902:MBBC21c.mp3] Before you start this one, just have a look at the TIES that start appearing in bar 17. Make sure you understand how they join 2 notes together such that the second note is not re-articulated ie we just make one note out of 2 written notes. This is similar to the dotted notes we have already looked at, but this tie method usually occurs over a bar line (but not always, as we will see in a later Session). MBBC21d [attachment=47898:MBBC21d.pdf] [attachment=47903:MBBC21d.mp3] Here I've not written the note names in - hopefully you are getting to know the notes by now ! MBBC21e [attachment=47899:MBBC21e.pdf] [attachment=47904:MBBC21e.mp3] Have fun ! The Major
  11. The Major's Bass Boot Camp - Session 20 Getting started with Music Reading - in C Major Many basschatters have contacted me requesting some extra help to get their reading skills under way. So I'm going to do a series of sessions designed specifically for those of you who can already play the notes, just can't read them. So there will be no theory, no help with fingering, just pure simple sight reading with the occasional "rudiments" pointer. Each session will be a set of playalongs in each of the keys. This one is all in C major. I've written a series of 4 bar phrases, each of which is repeated, with the bass part missing on the mp3's on each of the repeats. So play along with me for the first of each 4 bars then you are on your own for the repeat (but you have piano, guitar and organ playing in octaves with you). Each piece ends with a 2 bar phrase, repeated. I'll tell you the names of the notes just once in each piece - after that you have to memorise what they look like. This Session is restricted to just semibreves (4 beats long) minims (2 beats worth) crotchets (single beat) and quavers (2 quavers to a beat), and all pieces are in 4/4. Each mp3 example starts with one bar of drums. This Session is all in the key of C, so no sharps, no flats, just the natural notes that you can play in the first position. If you want to do fingerings that take you out of 1st position, that's fine - but you may just find it easier to start off in 1st. The "double bar-line" indicates the start of each new phrase or it's repeat. MBBC20a [attachment=47376:MBBC20a.pdf] [attachment=47381:MBBC20a.mp3] A minim lasts for 2 beats, a semibreve for 4. Crotchets last 1 beat and there are two quavers per beat. Two quavers will often be joined together with a beam across the top. Sometimes if there are 4 quavers together (over 2 beats) they will all be beamed together. (We will start to use single quavers and dotted crotchets in the next Session which will be in the key of F.) A "tie" joins 2 written notes together ie the 2nd note is not re-articulated. The 2nd written note simply shows how long the "sounding" note carries on for. MBBC20b [attachment=47377:MBBC20b.pdf] [attachment=47382:MBBC20b.mp3] Here I've pinpointed the "bass clef" and the "time signature". The bass clef sign is curled around the note F (the second line down), indeed this clef was once known as the "F clef". The time sig is always 2 numbers: the lower number represents the basic beat, in this case crotchets (quarters), the upper number tells us how many of these beats per bar there will be, in this case 4. So there will be 4 crotchet beats in each bar. So 6/8 would be 6 quavers (8ths) per bar (2 lots of 3 quavers). MBBC20c [attachment=47378:MBBC20c.pdf] [attachment=47384:MBBC20c.mp3] MBBC20d [attachment=47379:MBBC20d.pdf] [attachment=47383:MBBC20d.mp3] MBBC20e [attachment=47380:MBBC20e.pdf] [attachment=47385:MBBC20e.mp3] This one has a half tempo feel from the drums. I'm keen to know if the way I'm presenting this "Reading" Session is helpful to you. Please PM me and tell me whether it works for you and let me know if there is anything I can do to improve it. I'll be starting work soon on the next one - playalongs in F - so all opinions will be very helpful. The Major
  12. [quote name='Hector' post='805046' date='Apr 13 2010, 04:46 PM']Explain [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WMO0nJRWAM"]THIS[/url] then! Just kidding, I prefer French but that was the way I was taught to start due to my teacher's preference. I think it's probably a preference thing. Seriously though, that video is the mutt's nuts! Hector[/quote] I really was just kidding about German bows. I work with many great players who use them. When I started playing in the 60's just about everybody in the UK used the French bow so naturally I followed suit. I did recently consider changing to German as I've been getting a few arm pains and wondered whether the change would do me good. But its a very different technique and I'm not sure if I could find the extra time (or patience) needed to learn it. In any case I'm gonna be skint for a while as I've decided to have a major renovation job done on one of my basses. If I did buy a german bow it would have to be a good one, and good bows can cost a fair bit. The Major
  13. [quote name='Damo200' post='804770' date='Apr 13 2010, 12:28 PM']A good german bow also helps[/quote] I could say "There's no such thing as a good german bow!" but that would be rude and uncalled for. Each to his own i say (but French is better ! - sorry I didn't mean that to slip out). My first ever bass lesson was on the thumb position. My Dad had just bought me my first bass - I was 15. We were in Skelhorn's string instrument repair workshop (near Manchester) one day and met a guy called Charlie Hamer who was Principal bass in one of the big US orchs (New York Phil?) but was actually from Manchester originally and was over visiting his relatives. He offered to give me a lesson. It turned out that his technique was very individual and unique. He tuned GDGD and used the thumb all the time even in the lowest positions. Well, in an hour or so i tried to take all this in - I think he hoped I might champion his methods over here - but of course it was impossible for me to continue in this way without his ongoing supervision. But it was an interesting insight into what can be done with the thumb. Mind you , he had particularly big hands. Hector pretty much sums up everything I would have said about learning thumb position. But, Hector, what does this mean ?: "Also try vomits for ability to shift into and out of thumb position." The Major
  14. Geoff - that sounds lovely ! Which bass is that ? The Major
  15. Actually, if you want to transpose a piece into another key, the Roman numeral method is the long way round. Much easier to work out the INTERVAL from one key to another and apply that interval to each note and chord symbol. So if you were transposing from Bb minor to, say, D minor, the interval from Bb to D is a major 3rd or 4 semitones higher. So just take everything up by that amount. Or it could be 8 semitones lower ( a minor 6th) if you needed the notes at a lower pitch. The Major
  16. [quote name='douglas81' post='795331' date='Apr 3 2010, 09:45 PM']Well, if it is a Briggs, you could be holding tens of thousands of pounds worth of bass in your hands! Give Tony Houska a bell at the Contrabass Shoppe, he'll soon fill in the details for you.[/quote] It was a comment from "a well respected bass maker" yesterday that made me look into the idea that it might be a Briggs. When I Googled this name, Tony Houska's Contrabassshoppe came up as he has a Briggs for sale. As it said "price on application" I have emailed for this info and am now waiting rather nervously for his reply. I've been told before now that the bass may be a Tarr (I've used it professionally for 36 years), and I believe that Briggs was an employee at one time of the Tarr workshop. This is all hearsay though, and I'd like to get some more authoritative info on Briggs if anyone has it. The Major
  17. I've just found out that one of my basses may be a James William BRIGGS of Wakefield. I know he was making basses around 1880. Does anyone have any more info about this maker. I'd never heard the name before. The Major
  18. Ok ... So it's a G diminished triad in the key of Bbminor. The Roman Numeral system was first commonly used by musicians and academics in the 18th Century (or so I believe - perhaps someone might know better ?!). It's starting point is always the MAJOR scale and the triads built on each note. Despite your example referring to a minor key, we still have to relate the numerals we use as if it is a major key. In Bb minor (5 flats), the 6th note of the scale is Gb. So you might have expected to write Ⅵ for a triad built on this note, but in fact this should correctly be written as bⅥ ( flat 6) with the resulting MAJOR triad of Gb Bb Db, hence the use of the Upper case Roman 6. (to be clear: a MAJOR triad is always written with the Upper case, a Minor triad with the Lower case) If the notes are G Bb Db (G diminished), this should be written ⅵ o ( a minor triad, hence the lower case Roman 6, but with a diminished 5th, hence the"o", built on the 6th note away from Bb in the MAJOR scale). The G natural in this case is a note from the Bb melodic minor scale. Bb C Db Eb F G A Bb The Roman Numeral system is great for conventional music analysis and its an essential part of music education. Thereafter its usage is somewhat limited. I suppose what I mean is don't get too hung up about it ! There are a few confusions in this system, and various academics have added their own take on it, adding further confusion ! If you try reading several different tomes on the subject, you will see what I mean. The Major
  19. [quote name='billphreets' post='786634' date='Mar 26 2010, 10:08 AM']invaluable as ever major.. im really into these sessions, i applaud you for the time and effort you make in an effort to educate the basschat community.. cheers[/quote] It is my pleasure, billphreets. The Major
  20. Ah ... so when you put Go (G diminished) in your original post, did you really mean Gb (G flat) ? The Major
  21. Bilbo - you got me fair and square ! The (feeling foolish) Major
  22. Bilbo There appears to only be 8 bars on the pdf . Is there more ? The Major
  23. [quote name='robdowall' post='793305' date='Apr 1 2010, 01:44 PM']Ok thank you, but in terms of re-writing this into roman numerals what would you call it? cheers[/quote] Sorry don't understand your question ! Re-writing WHAT into roman numerals ?
  24. [quote name='Clarky' post='792133' date='Mar 31 2010, 04:39 PM']Regarding other replies, many thanks to all. I will take at look at your posts M-M but I was really looking for a book that, when not practising from, I could take to read on my nearly hour long journey to/from work. And the Building Jazz Lines sounds like it would be pretty heavy going as I can't read the dots (and prefer rock to jazz!) - probably great for a facile reader but maybe a step too far for me (was hoping something tab based, preferably).[/quote] Clarky Just to be clear - I'm trying to cover lots of styles and genres in the Boot Camp Sessions. You might need to delve through to find stuff that you feel is relevant to yourself. And its not graded - I'm just dipping in and out at differing levels of difficulty. I've just started work on some "Getting Started with Music Reading" sessions. I'm designing these for people who can already play, but need to have practice at easy reading, to familiarise themselves with the dots at basic level. I hope you will look out for these sessions - coming soon ! The Major
  25. [quote name='Bilbo' post='791611' date='Mar 31 2010, 10:11 AM']Many of you know I work with offenders. One of the tools we use relates to enhancing thinking skills and to do that, it is necessary to understand how we think. One of the interesting aspects of this relates to the ways in which people justify their behaviour (any behaviour, even murder). There are all sorts of ways; denial, self deception, minimisation (I only steal for companies not from individuals, I only drove 300 yards, I had to get home because the kids were ill), justification (everyone does it, I drive better when I have had a drink, it was only a bit of puff etc). The important thing is that most offenders don't actually know they are doing this. Anyway, in looking at the way people think, it long ago dawned on me that these traits were not just about offending but about ALL behaviours. And, as with offenders, people generally don't know they are doing it. Think about people who diet, who give up smoking, who shop with credit cards etc. They will talk themselves into it even though they know it is ultimately harmful. Relating this to the topic under discussion, what we have here (in general terms; this is not an attack on anyone), we have a situation where many members of the musical community seek to find ways to justify their decisions so they can still feel ok about their abilities. When the likes of the Major, Doddy, Jakesbass and myself advocate for musical literacy, there are always those who respond with the 'X is great and he can't read' argument, or the 'I knew a guy who could read but couldn't groove' position, or 'readers don't play with good feel' etc etc. The arguments presented are what I would call justifications, position statements that allow individuals who haven't learned to read to justify their lack of a well established, legitimate and tried and tested skill. They avoid the simple 'I can't read because I can't read' admission in favour of 'I can't read because I don't need to', 'its a waste of time', 'it will ruin my feel', 'it will undermine my creativity', 'I don't need it', 'it will undermine my originality', 'it will make me lazy', 'it will ruin my ability to play by ear' - its all b/s. Its not rocket science. Readers who can't improvise can't improvise because they haven't learned how, not because they can read. Classical musicians can't play funk or jazz because they haven't spent time with the genres, not because they can read. There is no causal link between reading dots and any musical shortcoming whatsoever. People who can read can do something others cannot and will get gig unavailable to others - end of. It doesn't mean that others can't do something that the reader can't do; the two things are unrelated. If you can read, you can read. No more and no less. Its a skill that is worth acquiring - and, incidentally, is of considerably more use than double thumbing, tapping, raking or crimping. You wil get calls for gigs you wouldn't have got before (of course you didn't need it before. Noone would call you for a reading gig if you couldn't read). I can see NO reason why anyone who can read would tell someone who couldn't read to learn to do so so that they would be worse musicians. I CAN see why people are dismissive of the skill; if YOU don't learn, they don't have to feel bad about their own musical illiteracy and, more to the point, YOU won't get a gig in place of them. Do it. Start now.[/quote] Bibo - just one word - BRILLIANT ! The Major
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